Between a Rock and A Hard Place

The majority of American male voters favor Mrs. CLinton as the "Commander-in-Chief".

0 Replies

joefromchicago wrote:

Iraq War: George W. Bush. Service in the Texas Air National Guard but no combat service. Grade: disastrous.

Ooooh. And you were doing so well, Joe.

0 Replies

joefromchicago wrote:

Previous military experience, therefore, does not guarantee that a person will be a good commander-in-chief, just as the lack of military experience does not guarantee that a person will be a bad commander-in-chief.

If you consider the role of the President, you would not think that military experience would matter. The President decides why and where the military responds, not how. I'm ex-military and tend the respect those that share that experience, but that isn't a quality necessary for the President. Being a cog in a well run machine (regardless of the size of the cog) does not train you to be the manipulator of the machine.

0 Replies

engineer wrote:

joefromchicago wrote:
Previous military experience, therefore, does not guarantee that a person will be a good commander-in-chief, just as the lack of military experience does not guarantee that a person will be a bad commander-in-chief.

If you consider the role of the President, you would not think that military experience would matter. The President decides why and where the military responds, not how. I'm ex-military and tend the respect those that share that experience, but that isn't a quality necessary for the President. Being a cog in a well run machine (regardless of the size of the cog) does not train you to be the manipulator of the machine.

Franz Kafka "In the Penal Colony"

0 Replies

I agree that you don't need military experience to be a good Commander-in-Chief. Personally, I think that McCain is touting his POW experience ad nauseum. I think that there reaches a point of saturation where hearing about his days as a prisoner will start to grate on people, to the point where it will become a detriment to his cause.

I certainly have empathy for what he went through. Now he needs to move on and focus on the future, not the past.

0 Replies

I imagine he will be talking more about it with the new 9/11 trial coming up in which we waterboarded a suspect to get 'answers.' It will be interesting to hear him dance around his previous statements on torture and what he will say now. If he don't change his statements; I will be pleasantly surprised.

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/12/swift-911/

It is a horrible torture technique used by Pol Pot

0 Replies

There's another "variable" I alluded to, but didn't specifically point out. That is the fact that with the possibility that our Navy will be backing up any diplomacy with Iran in the next four years (during McCain's presidency), his having been a Navy man himself, and coming from a distinguished Navy family, adds a measure of esprit de corps that, I believe, will add postively to any missions that the Navy receives. Sort of like possibly being more motivated for one's biological parent, if that parent is loving, as opposed to a step-parent affording equal "love." In effect, I believe, one works harder for "family" than strangers.

My point is that I believe, in the eyes of many military personnel, McCain's wartime experience qualifies him as a lifetime member of the military family, as opposed to being just "a civilian."

0 Replies

I think most of you on the right are laboring under false illusions when it comes to military and how they feel about a candidates qualifications. If money donated from military people is anything to by; Ron Paul who is against the Iraq war and war with Iran has recieved more donations from them than any other candidate.

http://www.ronpaularmy.com/

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul178.html

0 Replies

revel...interesting...any thoughts about that???

0 Replies

There are some in the military who are able to still think, who know when lies are lies.

0 Replies

Ticomaya wrote:

joefromchicago wrote:
Iraq War: George W. Bush. Service in the Texas Air National Guard but no combat service. Grade: disastrous.

Ooooh. And you were doing so well, Joe.

I know you're disappointed, but I just couldn't think of a description worse than "disastrous."

0 Replies

engineer wrote:

Being a cog in a well run machine (regardless of the size of the cog) does not train you to be the manipulator of the machine.

Good observation.

Phoenix, I'm still scarred from my attempts, pie and all, to get you to see reason in 2004. I won't make the same mistake twice. ;-)

0 Replies

Mapleleaf wrote:

revel...interesting...any thoughts about that???

The reason Ron Paul is not doing well is because the right against him because of his views on the 'war of terror'; torture, Iraq and Iran. The left because of his views on everything else. So he don't get much from either quater. I guess the military people just want to get out of Iraq. (at least those are my deductions from that; could very well be wrong)

0 Replies

Foofie wrote:

There's another "variable" I alluded to, but didn't specifically point out. That is the fact that with the possibility that our Navy will be backing up any diplomacy with Iran in the next four years (during McCain's presidency), his having been a Navy man himself, and coming from a distinguished Navy family, adds a measure of esprit de corps that, I believe, will add postively to any missions that the Navy receives. Sort of like possibly being more motivated for one's biological parent, if that parent is loving, as opposed to a step-parent affording equal "love." In effect, I believe, one works harder for "family" than strangers.

My point is that I believe, in the eyes of many military personnel, McCain's wartime experience qualifies him as a lifetime member of the military family, as opposed to being just "a civilian."

When you're on the mid-watch in the engine room, I doubt you will be worried about whether the President was a good Navy guy or not. When I was in, we were happy about Reagan, but mainly because he raised our pay.

0 Replies

JTT wrote:

There are some in the military who are able to still think, who know when lies are lies.

I remember when I was in college, there were many who accused the ROTC group of being war mongers. I can tell you with complete sincerity that military folks are anti-war. They are the ones who get separated from their families, face the horrors of war and potentially die. It doesn't surprise me that Ron Paul finds support there.

0 Replies

Ronald Reagan once said that "Going over the cliff, flags flying, is still going over the cliff."

There comes a time when some ideological principles have to be set aside in favor of the more practical view. Interpretation: meaning what is possible. There is nothing to be gained to go over the cliff for something that is impossible to attain.

It is most likely no longer possible for there to be a President Giuliani or President Romney or President Thompson or President somebody else in this election. In all probability what we are going to have to do is decide whether a President McCain is more or less beneficial to us personally and the country as a whole than would a President Rodham-Clinton or a President Obama.

I think those of us who hold varying degrees of conservative principles that keep us at least somewhat right of center need to think about that very carefully. McCain does speak some conservative principles on which we can all probably agree. I think he speaks quite a bit more of them than do Hillary or Barack.

My choice is to keep my conservative flag flying and hold to conservative principles, but I will vote for the one closest to those principles however far away that is.

0 Replies

Phoenix32890 wrote:

I agree that you don't need military experience to be a good Commander-in-Chief. Personally, I think that McCain is touting his POW experience ad nauseum. I think that there reaches a point of saturation where hearing about his days as a prisoner will start to grate on people, to the point where it will become a detriment to his cause.

I certainly have empathy for what he went through. Now he needs to move on and focus on the future, not the past.

You're a tough one person crowd.

I think he may be touting his singular support of The Surge over much, but I don't hear him talking about his POW experience without being asked, and I don't think he's ever "touted" it. His supporters are always quick to bring the subject up and perhaps that's the source of your sense of over dose.

If I had spent 5 years in a North Vietnamese prison enduring what he endured and being reminded of the torment every time someone had to help me put on and remove my suit jacket, I would hope I might catch some slack if I talked about it from time to time.

I agree with everyone who has ventured the opinion that one need not have military experience to be an effective Commander in Chief. I don't believe, however, that anyone is making the case that having military experience is detrimental to being an effective Commander in Chief, and all things being equal, I would suggest that having military experience gives someone an edge when the time comes to make a selection.

His military experience however is not all that qualifies him for the position. His congressional experience as respects issues of national security, the military and foreign policy is clearly more extensive than that of either Obama or Clinton and he is acknowledged within congress as an expert and leader in these areas.

Most importantly, he is someone that knows war is never the first option, but always must remain a viable option When employed it needs to conducted with a strategy designed to win, not mark time, and if such strategy can't be formulated in advance we shouldn't go to war.

0 Replies

Well; straight talker that he is; he did not live up to his words. Color me surprised.

Quote:

Links embedded in the article at the source

Justice Dept: Waterboarding not legal

0 Replies

Quote:

Mr. McCain, a former prisoner of war, has consistently voiced opposition to waterboarding and other methods that critics say is a form torture. But the Republicans, confident of a White House veto, did not mount the challenge. Mr. McCain voted "no" on Wednesday afternoon.

This is surprising and disappointing for me as well. Is there anything else in this bill that is objectionable to McCain? I don't understand his vote.

0 Replies

Disappointing, but not all that surprising to me. Another example of why I'm leaning left this go-round.

0 Replies

Between a Rock and A Hard Place

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know