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Heath Ledger dead at 28

 
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 01:57 pm
Or here it is spelled backwards:

malozarpla

Or here's the link:

Link to generic name for Xanax
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 02:12 pm
Adivan (Lorazepam) is a better drug in that family of drugs for panic attacks and in use with Wellbutrin to quell the side effects. The recent incident of Heath going to a party in clothes that made him appear he was homeless (yeah, right), not engaging conversation with a blank expression on his face can be the symptoms of a panic attack. It's a psychotic break and generally not dangerous, except it can make the individual feel they are having a heart attack if outside stimuli begin agitating the patient -- any stomach upset such as acid reflux will exacerbate this condition.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 04:34 pm
Lightwizard wrote:
Adivan (Lorazepam) is a better drug in that family of drugs for panic attacks and in use with Wellbutrin to quell the side effects. The recent incident of Heath going to a party in clothes that made him appear he was homeless (yeah, right), not engaging conversation with a blank expression on his face can be the symptoms of a panic attack. It's a psychotic break and generally not dangerous, except it can make the individual feel they are having a heart attack if outside stimuli begin agitating the patient -- any stomach upset such as acid reflux will exacerbate this condition.


Panic attacks are NOT psychotic breaks!!!!!!!
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Gargamel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 04:38 pm
dlowan wrote:
Lightwizard wrote:
Adivan (Lorazepam) is a better drug in that family of drugs for panic attacks and in use with Wellbutrin to quell the side effects. The recent incident of Heath going to a party in clothes that made him appear he was homeless (yeah, right), not engaging conversation with a blank expression on his face can be the symptoms of a panic attack. It's a psychotic break and generally not dangerous, except it can make the individual feel they are having a heart attack if outside stimuli begin agitating the patient -- any stomach upset such as acid reflux will exacerbate this condition.


Panic attacks are NOT psychotic breaks!!!!!!!


Somebody forgot to take her Xanax!
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 04:47 pm
Gargamel wrote:
dlowan wrote:
Lightwizard wrote:
Adivan (Lorazepam) is a better drug in that family of drugs for panic attacks and in use with Wellbutrin to quell the side effects. The recent incident of Heath going to a party in clothes that made him appear he was homeless (yeah, right), not engaging conversation with a blank expression on his face can be the symptoms of a panic attack. It's a psychotic break and generally not dangerous, except it can make the individual feel they are having a heart attack if outside stimuli begin agitating the patient -- any stomach upset such as acid reflux will exacerbate this condition.


Panic attacks are NOT psychotic breaks!!!!!!!


Somebody forgot to take her Xanax!



Don't start me on drugs as first, or only, treatment for panic attacks!
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Gargamel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 04:56 pm
Agreed. I'm from the Alcohol School of medication. Call me old-fashioned. Or drunk.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 05:02 pm
Gargamel wrote:
Agreed. I'm from the Alcohol School of medication. Call me old-fashioned. Or drunk.



Alcohol can cause them......true.....increased heart rate is frequent in hangovers, and panic attack prone individuals can be triggered by this.


Stop while you're behind, Pitcher of Innocence.... :wink:
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 07:26 pm
Panic attacks are symptoms, not causes, from psychotic breaks with reality, withdrawal from a substance abuse, including alcohol which is a drug, and the attack can be a anti-social withdrawal or, at worse, violence against oneself or others. This is a simplification, of course, and depends on how one's body stimulates adrenalin. A psychotic break can be from an ordinary dose of an anti-depressant.

Of course, we know from Tom Cruise that Scientology is the answer to all of this. Not.

Alcohol more likely will cause dementia praecox with chronic abuse. It's unlikely one would experience a panic attack because they just drink more.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 07:29 pm
Lightwizard wrote:
Panic attacks are symptoms, not causes, from psychotic breaks with reality, withdrawal from a substance abuse, including alcohol which is a drug, and the attack can be a anti-social withdrawal or, at worse, violence against oneself or others. This is a simplification, of course, and depends on how one's body stimulates adrenalin. A psychotic break can be from an ordinary dose of an anti-depressant.

Of course, we know from Tom Cruise that Scientology is the answer to all of this. Not.


Where on earth did you get that from?
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gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 07:30 pm
Here she goes.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 07:36 pm
That's all university Psychology 101. Pschyology and Psychiatry are not exact sciences (duh). It's always going to be Yin or Jung, authentic or Freud.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 07:42 pm
Lightwizard wrote:
That's all university Psychology 101. Pschyology and Psychiatry are not exact sciences (duh). It's always going to be Yin or Jung, authentic or Freud.


Well, your university Psychology 1 needs a serious brush with good research and efficacious treatment modalities.

I cannot imagine where such stuff might be taught in psychology, especially since psychology is the discipline that has been most responsible for researching and effectively treating panic problems.

LW, I wouldnn't bother contradicting you, except that people who may suffer panic attacks (quite a high percentage of us do, at least once) may read what you have said and think they are having a psychotic episode!!!!!

Of course, people who are psychotic frequently experience panic, but panic attacks do NOT mean one is having any sort of psychotic anything!!!!
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 08:02 pm
Then it could be that it's not a panic attack, it's just garden variety panic. I don't know but a few people who has had a real panic attack. One of my closest friends is a prominent psychiatrist in Southern California and although I've never elicited his services, he's freely given advice. There are actually physiological symptoms accompanying a panic attack -- including your chest tightening and convulsing, which can seem like you're having a heart attack. If think you are talking about a panic episode but this is, after all, semantics and opinion based on schooling and experience.

But you are right about a panic attack not always involving a psychotic break, but in most cases it does, however mild. If the panic attacks become frequent, they can lead to a complete psychotic break. Nothing to fool around with, especially with the mix of drugs that were prescribed for Heath. I think his doctor, or doctors, have to answer a lot of hard questions. Then again, now they are stating there were no illegal drugs found and that doesn't mean he used something off location to his apartment, of course, including alcohol.

I went through Psychology IV but many years ago, although I've kept abreast of new findings on the Internet, always having a discussion and confirmation by my friend.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 08:08 pm
Ativan can be used to stave off panic attacks before there is a psychotic break. Xanax especially is bad if taking it periodically, and especially abruptly discontinuing the dosage. Ditto with all the anti-depressants. I'm sure you know that can result in suicide which, incidentally, is not really the patient's fault. I think a patient who doesn't do their own research after an MD prescribes this stuff puts himself, or herself, in jeopardy.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 11:54 pm
Lightwizard wrote:
Then it could be that it's not a panic attack, it's just garden variety panic. I don't know but a few people who has had a real panic attack. One of my closest friends is a prominent psychiatrist in Southern California and although I've never elicited his services, he's freely given advice. There are actually physiological symptoms accompanying a panic attack -- including your chest tightening and convulsing, which can seem like you're having a heart attack. If think you are talking about a panic episode but this is, after all, semantics and opinion based on schooling and experience.

But you are right about a panic attack not always involving a psychotic break, but in most cases it does, however mild. If the panic attacks become frequent, they can lead to a complete psychotic break. Nothing to fool around with, especially with the mix of drugs that were prescribed for Heath. I think his doctor, or doctors, have to answer a lot of hard questions. Then again, now they are stating there were no illegal drugs found and that doesn't mean he used something off location to his apartment, of course, including alcohol.

I went through Psychology IV but many years ago, although I've kept abreast of new findings on the Internet, always having a discussion and confirmation by my friend.



The bolded bits are NONSENSE!


I want to say this again because panic attacks are relatively common, and one of the most common fears during and after is that one is going mad!!!!


Really, LW, this stuff is nonsense. I TREAT the goddam things.


Panic attacks can be very traumatic, but will not in themselves cause psychosis, though they may presumably tiger an episode if one is susceptible, as stress in general can do....and panic attacks, especially if one has not received proper psycho-education about them, are extraordinarily stressful



Of COURSE they lead to physical symptoms, that is part of the DEFINITION of panic attack.


Some psychiatrists are brilliant at treating them, many are ignorant about them and have no idea of the current research and treatments. To be frank it sounds as though your friend is one of these. I have been at numerous anxiety disorder conferences where the psychiatrists end up dumbfounded at their ignorance about anxiety in general, and panic disorder in particular.


That being said, some psychiatrists specialize in the area (I did a lot of my training with one such, who heads the anxiety disorder clinic at the hospital I used to work for).



(For anyone reading this who has had a panic attack, or more than one, and no education re the issue, here is a simple website with reasonable information: http://www.panicanxietydisorder.org.au/

Ditto re anxiety in general:

Beyond Blue
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jan, 2008 10:02 am
The psychiatrist I am writing about is the head of the primary care center for patients with extreme psychotic problems and considered the best mental hospital on the West Coast. Since there are no "bolded bits," I'm not sure exactly where you disagree. I didn't state that panic attacks "cause" psychosis. There is often a psychotic break which you characterize that the patient thinks they are going mad. Exactly. But we're still splitting semantic hairs. The main point is that a mixture of drugs can be the cause of the panic attack and if mixed with street drugs could explain Heath's strange behavior in the days before his death. The point was that during a panic attack, the patient isn't necessarily outwardly showing any symptoms other than being withdrawn and anti-social. If it hasn't happened to a patient before, the first time it does happen is inexplicable. Unless they get psychiatric care, that feeling that they are losing their mind can extend into the next panic attack. You are right that if one is educated about what is happening and know that mixing drugs is one of the causes, they could take the prescription medication to calm down. That's if the subject realizes that during the panic attack they not capable of rational judgement and overdose. It doesn't have to be a full bottle of pills. In the case of Ledger, alcohol, Zoloft, Xanax, and gawd know what else (we probably won't know until next week) is a recipe for disaster that more likely came from a lack of good medical/psychological help and his own poor education about his condition. This is in answer to those who believe there is no such thing as an accidental overdose. Zoloft and Xanax both have warnings that while taking them or if abruptly discontinuing use, thoughts of suicide are not that uncommon in someone of his age (or, really, any age). We may never know what the mental state was at the time, we will only know if the drugs had a part in his death. On the Terry Gilliam set, he was said to be in good spirits but I wonder if he had ever been diagnosed as a manic depressive. He could have also been taking Zoloft, and hadn't begun mixing drugs. We may never know that either. It still looks to me like an accident and blaming a dead man for not receiving good medical/psychological care and not following dosage directions in regards to the synergy is not just premature but mean.

As to the bolded parts, does that mean the bolded parts that are NONSENSE are in your reply? Did anyone ever tell you that bold letters represent shouting on the Internet? Are you having a panic attack?
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jan, 2008 10:19 am
From your source:

Untreated or unrecognized anxiety disorders can lead to secondary conditions such as agoraphobia, depression, alcohol and drug abuse, or tragically in some cases, suicide.

Severe anxiety disorder can also occur during withdrawal from alcohol and drugs, or the withdrawal from the drugs themselves.

Like I state, whether or not Heath's death is attributed to a suicide, it's not a cause to be pissing on his grave. It should be an illumination about addiction rehab and treatments. This society is killing people in more ways than one by sending them to jail where the get minimal psychiatric help. Psychiatrists should tell anyone that they do not have the "cure" for addictions (alcoholism is an addiction), that social programs such as AA or NA work for a percentage of these individuals. It unfortunate that twelve step programs don't have a great track record but some of that is attributed to those who drop out and never drink or use again, or are finally successful in practicing moderation.
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cyphercat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jan, 2008 04:54 pm
dlowan wrote:
Of COURSE they lead to physical symptoms, that is part of the DEFINITION of panic attack.


I was wondering about that. I've had a fair number of, hmm... episodes, shall we say, that included physical symptoms like heart racing, hyperventilating, and a choking feeling, all of which fit the definitions of panic attacks that I've read. All the reading I've done about it has been just what I could find on the net, though, so since I have nothing else to go on and with one person saying stuff about psychotic breaks, I was beginning to get a little nervous. So I have to say, Deb, I'm awfully glad you responded as you did--I would be feeling like some kind of outright whacko after reading what LW was saying, if not for your clarifications. Glad you were here...
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Dorothy Parker
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jan, 2008 05:41 pm
Just wondering if the doctor who prescribed these drugs would be questioned / struck off / held partly responsible? Or would he have got them from different doctors or illegal sources? Is it the case in America (and indeed all over the world) that if you have a lot of money then you can get hold of anything you want?
0 Replies
 
Dorothy Parker
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jan, 2008 05:43 pm
Thanks for Xanax info btw Lightwizard.
0 Replies
 
 

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