It's Gonna Get Ugly For Barack and Hillary

Roxxxanne wrote:

mysteryman wrote:

And Hillary had to rig the vote in NH to get the victory.
How else can you explain the vast difference between the pre-election polls and the actual results?

Are you kidding? You mean you don't know? Pay attention.

All of the pre vote polls had Obama winning by anywhere between 6 and 12 percent.
Yet Hillary won the vote.

Allof the polls had Kerry beating Bush,and when that didnt happen you were one of the first ones to cry foul.
You accused Bush of all kinds of illegal actions to win, and none of them were true.
So, there had to be some kind of illegal actions from Hillary's campaign for them to win despite all of the polls.
Unless you are willing to admit that the polls could have been wrong, but then you have to admit that the polls that showed Bush losing in both 2000 and 2004 were also wrong.

Are you willing to do that?

I dont think you are.

Last night, she was repeating over and over her 35 years of experience again. Question, has anyone yet figured out what those 35 years of experience amounted to?

In effect, Steinem was arguing that sexism trumps racism as a national concern and backing that up by claiming that women in America have fewer options than black men. But this claim is flawed,

Last night, she was repeating over and over her 35 years of experience again. Question, has anyone yet figured out what those 35 years of experience amounted to?

soz quotes kamiya...

Quote:

In effect, Steinem was arguing that sexism trumps racism as a national concern and backing that up by claiming that women in America have fewer options than black men. But this claim is flawed,

That's of course not what she said but is rather a statement of what Kamiya thinks might be an accurate nutshell description of her 'thesis'.

The problem with Kamiya's piece here is a small but important one because he reaches for a simple either/or frame of reference. We don't have to decide or argue who has the worse of it, women or people of color, in an over-arching evaluation (not so easy to do in any case). More appropriately, we need to try and understand how either group have been and are being marginalized as regards power. While rates of black male incarceration tell us an undeniable story about racism, so the rates of spousal beatings or relative ratios of women in high office tells us something about the other problem.

We can speculate as to where and when one problem trumps the other. I did this earlier in a post where I suggested what was a new idea to me, that sexism might be a more intractable problem in achieving high office than color. The idea arose as a consequence of observing all those gender matters I've talked about earlier, as I've perceived or interpreted them. They didn't arise in my noggin because I'm a Hillary supporter.

In this limited sphere, it may well be that my perception is accurate. Or it might be that I have it wrong. But it is not discountable in the manner that kamiya attempts.

This is rich.

How many marginal victims can dance on the head of a pin?

While racism and sexism continue to be problems in America, the notion that those who have completely invested themselves, intellectually, emotionally and economically in these issues are arguing which is the worst one is laughable.

This is why it is so hard for so many to take Liberals seriously.

okie wrote:

Last night, she was repeating over and over her 35 years of experience again. Question, has anyone yet figured out what those 35 years of experience amounted to?

The NY Times couldn't figure it out.

Going by years spent as an elective official, Obama's 11 years exceeds Clinton's seven, which in turn exceeds Edwards' six. But....
[...........]
.........her sharing Bill Clinton's bed most nights while he was Arkansas governor and president of the United States.

Abe Lincoln had a total of 2 years experience and that was in the House of Reps.

...........The national upheaval of secession was a grim reality at Abraham Lincoln's inauguration. Jefferson Davis had been inaugurated as the President of the Confederacy two weeks earlier. The former Illinois Congressman had arrived in Washington by a secret route to avoid danger...
http://www.bartleby.com/124/pres31.html

dyslexia wrote:

Abe Lincoln had a total of 2 years experience and that was in the House of Reps.

True. We were lucky.

You know, I never really liked Dys.....

Had those 2 years been in the Senate the North would probably lost the war.

dyslexia wrote:

Had those 2 years been in the Senate the North would probably lost the war.

You've got it!! (Did Lincoln serve in the Illinois legislature??)

Dys may be worth a shitt after all !

okie wrote:

Last night, she was repeating over and over her 35 years of experience again. Question, has anyone yet figured out what those 35 years of experience amounted to?

Not me!

She began her career as a lawyer after graduating from Yale Law School in 1973, moving to Arkansas and marrying Bill Clinton in 1975, following her career as a Congressional legal counsel; she was named the first female partner at Rose Law Firm in 1979 and was listed as one of the one hundred most influential lawyers in America in 1988 and 1991.

[In] Yale Law School, [..] she served on the Board of Editors of the Yale Review of Law and Social Action. During her second year, she worked at the Yale Child Study Center, learning about new research on early childhood brain development and working as a research assistant on the seminal work, Beyond the Best Interests of the Child (1973).

She also took on cases of child abuse at Yale-New Haven Hospital, and volunteered at New Haven Legal Services to provide free advice for the poor.

In the summer of 1970, she was awarded a grant to work at Marian Wright Edelman's Washington Research Project, where she was assigned to Senator Walter Mondale's Subcommittee on Migratory Labor, researching migrant workers' problems in housing, sanitation, health and education [..].

In [the] summer [of 1971], she interned on child custody cases at the Oakland, California, law firm of Treuhaft, Walker and Burnstein, which was well-known for its support of constitutional rights, civil liberties, and radical causes [..].

The following summer, Rodham and Clinton campaigned in Texas for unsuccessful 1972 Democratic presidential candidate George McGovern. [After graduation from Yale], she began a year of post-graduate study on children and medicine at the Yale Child Study Center. Her first scholarly paper, "Children Under the Law", was published in the Harvard Educational Review in late 1973 and became frequently cited in the field. [..]

During her post-graduate study, Rodham served as staff attorney for Edelman's newly founded Children's Defense Fund in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and as a consultant to the Carnegie Council on Children. During 1974 she was a member of the impeachment inquiry staff in Washington, D.C., advising the House Committee on the Judiciary during the Watergate scandal. Under the guidance of Chief Counsel John Doar and senior member Bernard Nussbaum, Rodham helped research procedures of impeachment and the historical grounds and standards for impeachment. The committee's work culminated in the resignation of President Richard Nixon in August 1974. [..]

[After moving to Arkansas and marrying Bill Clinton,] Rodham joined the venerable Rose Law Firm, a bastion of Arkansan political and economic influence, in February 1977, specializing in patent infringement and intellectual property law, while also working pro bono in child advocacy [..].

Rodham co-founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, a state-level alliance with the Children's Defense Fund, in 1977. In late 1977, President Jimmy Carter (for whom Rodham had done 1976 campaign coordination work in Indiana) appointed her to the board of directors of the Legal Services Corporation, and she served in that capacity from 1978 through the end of 1981. For much of that time she served as the chair of that board, the first woman to do so. During her time as chair, funding for the Corporation was expanded from $90 million to $300 million, and she successfully battled against President Ronald Reagan's initial attempts to reduce the funding and change the nature of the organization.

She was the First Lady of Arkansas from 1979 to 1981 and 1983 to 1992, was active in a number of organizations concerned with the welfare of children, and was on the board of Wal-Mart and several other corporate boards.

[She] took a leave of absence from Rose Law in order to campaign for [Bill] full-time. As First Lady of Arkansas, Hillary Clinton chaired the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee from 1982 to 1992, where she sought to bring about reform in the state's court-sanctioned public education system. [In] one of the most important initiatives of the entire Clinton governorship, she fought a prolonged but ultimately successful battle against the Arkansas Education Association to put mandatory teacher testing as well as state standards for curriculum and classroom size in place. She introduced Arkansas' Home Instruction Program for Preschool Youth in 1985, a program that helps parents work with their children in preschool preparedness and literacy. She was named Arkansas Woman of the Year in 1983 [..].

From 1987 to 1991 she chaired the American Bar Association's Commission on Women in the Profession, which addressed gender bias in the law profession and induced the association to adopt measures to combat it. She was twice named by the National Law Journal as one of the 100 most influential lawyers in America, in 1988 and in 1991. [..]

Clinton served on the boards of the Arkansas Children's Hospital Legal Services (1988-1992) and the Children's Defense Fund (as chair, 1986-1992). In addition to her positions with non-profit organizations, she also held positions on the corporate board of directors of TCBY (1985-1992), Wal-Mart Stores (1986-1992) and Lafarge (1990-1992) [..]. Clinton was the first female member on Wal-Mart's board, added when chairman Sam Walton was pressured to name one; once there, she pushed successfully for the chain to adopt more environmentally-friendly practices, pushed largely unsuccessfully for more women to be added to the company's management, [but] was silent about the company's famously anti-labor union practices.