1
   

It's Gonna Get Ugly For Barack and Hillary

 
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 03:55 pm
I'm used to the abuse, High Seas, as there are alot of people still living in denial.

The last few decades with the alliance between the Democratic Party and black leaders has alot more to do with socialism than it does about equal rights. Many Democrats do not understand this, especially including many black people. The Democrats have used demagoguery very effectively against Republicans in their efforts to keep the black population down on the plantation while getting their vote, and that is why this race between Clinton and Obama offers a very unique opportunity to reveal the truth about what is going on here. Hopefully, quite a few people will see the light.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 04:15 pm
Okie - there's no point "getting used" to any abuse, and you know it.

Instead of the irrational flight of fancy here blaming the Republicans (!) for squabbles among the Democratic candidates, just quote to them facts (contrary to popular belief, quite a few Democrats can read):

Quote:


And as to what the hero of the Mr. & Mrs. Clinton branch of the Democratic party, Lyndon Johnson, had to say about blacks - just look up his quotes on the previous link!
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 04:29 pm
I pulled the quote out, High Seas, as I think it is highly instructive, as his suggested tactic seems to have worked for a few decades now. Thanks very much for the link. Did you read the links I posted in regard to the Black Republican organization? Oh, I was scanning it again and your link was listed there, so perhaps that is where you found it?

"These Negroes, they're getting pretty uppity these days and that's a problem for us since they've got something now they never had before, the political pull to back up their uppityness. Now we've got to do something about this, we've got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not enough to make a difference. For if we don't move at all, then their allies will line up against us and there'll be no way of stopping them, we'll lose the filibuster and there'll be no way of putting a brake on all sorts of wild legislation. It'll be Reconstruction all over again."


--Sen. Lyndon B. Johnson (D., Texas), 1957
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 04:39 pm
Okie - the Lyndon Johnson quote as well as the other quotes are from a recent Wall Street Journal article and also appear in several books, including the one mentioned in the link.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 05:09 pm
No matter his views; he still signed the civil rights law and that is what counted in the end.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 05:09 pm
Another bit of interesting information I didn't know, apparently Martin Luther King was a Republican and voted for Nixon. So what is this with Ms. Clinton wanting to claim Martin Luther King? Heck, one of her husband's mentors was Senator Fullbright, a staunch segregationist in Arkansas.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 07:18 pm
revel wrote:
No matter his views; he still signed the civil rights law and that is what counted in the end.

So his views don't count? Perhaps especially if they aren't what you would like to remember him for in the history books, have I got that right? If it doesn't fit the template, ignore it, right?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 09:02 pm
"It's delightful, it's delicious,
It's delectable, it's delirious,
It's dilemma, it's delimit, it's deluxe,
It's de-lovely".

Cole Porter

It sure is. Cool

I had to check the inception date of this thread twice, before I could believe it was January 13th.

It's delightful.

Snood warns the true-believers: Watch out for those Republicans!

Yeah, it would be just like them to enlist Bob Johnson to make a crack about Obama's cocaine use; with all its thinly veiled racial conotations.

What? What's that? Bob Johnson has already made the comment, and on behalf of the Clintons?

It's delicious.

Okie posts an incredibly racist comment by that Democratic hero of the Civil Rights movement - LBJ (at least according to Hilary) and revel responds

No matter his views; he still signed the civil rights law and that is what counted in the end.

If a Republican made a comment even one half as noxious as LBJ's, he could cure AIDs, reverse global warming, and bring the troops back from Iraq tomorrow at noon, and revel would never forgive him.

It's delectable.

The Clintons defending their position in the pantheon of African-American demi-gods because Hillary chose to take the name of MLK in vain.

It's delirious.

The Clintons attempting to remind the party faithful that Obama is black and will never be able to weather that most horrid of monsters, The Republican Attack Machine.

It's diemma.

The Democrats eviscerating one another with the big guns they intended to save for the Republicans.

It's delimit.

The Obama campaign delivering a devastating sucker punch to the champions of dirty fighting -- The Clintons.

It's deluxe.

Liberals hoisted on their own petard.

It's de-lovely.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 09:19 pm
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
"It's delightful, it's delicious,
It's delectable, it's delirious,
It's dilemma, it's delimit, it's deluxe,
It's de-lovely".

Cole Porter

It sure is. Cool

I had to check the inception date of this thread twice, before I could believe it was January 13th.

It's delightful.






Snood warns the true-believers: Watch out for those Republicans!

Yeah, it would be just like them to enlist Bob Johnson to make a crack about Obama's cocaine use; with all its thinly veiled racial conotations.

What? What's that? Bob Johnson has already made the comment, and on behalf of the Clintons?

It's delicious.

Okie posts an incredibly racist comment by that Democratic hero of the Civil Rights movement - LBJ (at least according to Hilary) and revel responds

No matter his views; he still signed the civil rights law and that is what counted in the end.

If a Republican made a comment even one half as noxious as LBJ's, he could cure AIDs, reverse global warming, and bring the troops back from Iraq tomorrow at noon, and revel would never forgive him.

It's delectable.

The Clintons defending their position in the pantheon of African-American demi-gods because Hillary chose to take the name of MLK in vain.

It's delirious.

The Clintons attempting to remind the party faithful that Obama is black and will never be able to weather that most horrid of monsters, The Republican Attack Machine.

It's diemma.

The Democrats eviscerating one another with the big guns they intended to save for the Republicans.

It's delimit.

The Obama campaign delivering a devastating sucker punch to the champions of dirty fighting -- The Clintons.

It's deluxe.

Liberals hoisted on their own petard.

It's de-lovely.



Enjoy, enjoy.

This is getting a lot of national play because these two are being taken seriously as people who could be the next president. the other side will get their dirty laundry aired too, if they ever become stories anyone cares about. And don't pretend there isn't plenty of nastiness to come between the middle-aged white guys club, AKA GOP candidates.

That takes away nothing at all from the truth that the Repugs are going to unleash their slavering Roves when our nominee is chosen.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 10:26 pm
Many of us wrote and called Howard Dean today and told him it was time for him to step in and put an end to this destructive argument. Looks like he did. Thanks Howard.

It is unfortunate that it will continue though. Hillary taped a Tyra Banks show today that won't be aired until Friday where she rehashes everything all over again. Transcript here: http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0108/Taking_this_whole_reconciliation_thing_too_far.html

Expect the innocent exclamations of "it isn't my fault!" once the show airs just one day before the Nevada Caucus. If Clinton is sincerely interested in the party unity she expressed in her Statement, she will request the Tyra Banks show not be aired or be edited to remove her remarks that continue the argument.



Quote:

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2008/01/obama_seeks_to_lower_temperatu.html

Obama seeks to lower temperature, Clinton follows
by John McCormick, updated

RENO, Nev. Seeking the high ground in a Democratic primary battle that turned especially nasty over the weekend, Sen. Barack Obama told reporters this afternoon that he wants to lower the temperature of the debate.

"I've been a little concerned about the tenor of the campaign," Obama said during a hastily called news conference. "I thought that it would be useful for me to just air this out a little bit."

Obama said he does not want the issues to be lost in a battle over personalities and statements about matters tangential to the race, a tone that Sen. Hillary Clinton quickly took as well in a statement issued by her campaign.

"We've got too much at stake at this time in our history to be engaging in this kind of silliness," Obama said. "I suspect that other candidates may feel the same way."

During the question-answer portion, Obama was asked whether Bill and Hillary Clinton have shown racial insensitivity in recent days.


"I don't want to rehash that," he said. "Here's what I can tell you: I think that Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton have historically and consistently been on the right side of civil rights issues. I think that they care about the African-American community and that they care about all Americans and that they want to see equal rights and equal justice in this country. That is something that I'm convinced of and I want to make sure that the American people understand that that's my assessment."

Earlier, Obama had said that he wanted to "stipulate to a couple things," including that his chief rivals are good people with solid civil rights records.

"Over the last couple of days, you have seen a tone on the Democratic side in the campaign that is unfortunate," he said. "I may disagree with Sen. Clinton or Sen. Edwards on how to get there, but we share the same goals. We're all Democrats. We all believe in civil rights. We all believe in equal rights. We all believe that regardless of race or gender that people should have equal opportunity. I think that they are good people, they are patriots and that they are running because they think they can lead this country to a better place. I don't want the campaign at this stage to degenerate into so much tit-for-tat, back-and-forth, that we lose sight of why all of us are doing this."

Shortly after Obama's press conference, Clinton's campaign issued the following statement:

Over this past week, there has been a lot of discussion and back and forth - much of which I know does not reflect what is in our hearts," she said in the statement. "And at this moment, I believe we must seek common ground. Our party and our nation is bigger than this. Our party has been on the front line of every civil rights movement, women's rights movement, workers' rights movement, and other movements for justice in America. We differ on a lot of things. And it is critical to have the right kind of discussion on where we stand. But when it comes to civil rights and our commitment to diversity, when it comes to our heroes - President John F. Kennedy and Dr. King Senator Obama and I are on the same side. And in that spirit, let's come together, because I want more than anything else to ensure that our family stays together on the front lines of the struggle to expand rights for all Americans.

Obama had said he is concerned that the needs of those who need help in the nation will be lost in the bickering.

"I'm worried that may get lost," he said. "So, I want to try to send a strong signal certainly to my own supporters, but I would also say to everybody who is involved in the campaign at this stage, let's try to focus on the work that needs to get done."

Still, Obama said he would respond if he feels he is unfairly attacked.

"If the facts as presented aren't accurate, I'm going to try to correct the record," he said. "But what I want to avoid doing is dividing the party or in some way impugn the motives of the other candidates."

Obama also said he feels he can do well among Nevada's large Hispanic population and those in other upcoming primary and caucus states -- even though there has often been political tension among blacks and Hispanics in politics.

"I think it is important for us to get my record known before the Latino community. My history is excellent with Latino support back in Illinois because they knew my record. They knew that I had fought for and stood comprehensive immigration reform I think nationally, people don't know my record quite as well, and so it is very important for me to communicate that, to advertise on Spanish-speaking television, to make clear my commitments. Over time, as people become aware of that track record, I think I will do very well."

He was also asked about a lawsuit that seeks to close caucus meeting sites in Las Vegas casinos and hotels that could help his chances in Saturday's Nevada caucuses.

"We believe we will do well here," he said. "We've got, I think, the best organization on the ground. That was before we were endorsed by the Culinary Workers Union. With their endorsement, I think that is a powerful boost. Obviously, the notion that some of the same people who helped to put together the caucus structure are now challenging it, in the wake of the Culinary Union endorsement, is a little troublesome. But we're confident that our people are going to show up and I think we will do very well."

Obama downplayed a poll out Monday that shows him with a slight lead in Nevada.

"There was a poll in New Hampshire that didn't quite work out the way everybody thought," he said. "If I ever put any stock in polls, that ended it."

Obama also offered his analysis on why he finished second in New Hampshire.

"Basically, there was a big shift in terms of undecideds going towards Sen. Clinton, particularly among women in the last minute," he said. "Keep in mind, there was a gender gap that cut both ways. I won among men, and she won among women.If it had been a racial issue, there's no reason why that would have been something that was just unique to women as opposed to men. So I don't think that is the case. You saw what happened in Iowa. I'm confident that the American people are just looking who can best deliver a message of change that will make their lives better. And if I do that, then I'll win. And if I don't, then I'll lose."


0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 10:40 pm
snood wrote:


Enjoy, enjoy.

This is getting a lot of national play because these two are being taken seriously as people who could be the next president. the other side will get their dirty laundry aired too, if they ever become stories anyone cares about. And don't pretend there isn't plenty of nastiness to come between the middle-aged white guys club, AKA GOP candidates.

That takes away nothing at all from the truth that the Repugs are going to unleash their slavering Roves when our nominee is chosen.


Snood, judging from reading your posts over the past months, you seem like a good decent guy, and somebody that might be willing to examine your own beliefs a little bit. Could you do yourself a favor and read the two links following, and take what is given there and examine what the current situation could reveal to you that you may have never realized before, that the Democrats are not about helping blacks at all, and never have been. Currently, they are about socialism. If you are in favor of socialism, then perhaps you have chosen the right party, but if you want the party that really cares about the individual, including blacks, you are in the wrong party.

http://www.nationalblackrepublicans.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=pages.DYK-Why%20I%20am%20a%20Black%20Republican&tp_preview=true
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110011033
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 10:41 pm
snood wrote:



Enjoy, enjoy.

This is getting a lot of national play because these two are being taken seriously as people who could be the next president. the other side will get their dirty laundry aired too, if they ever become stories anyone cares about. And don't pretend there isn't plenty of nastiness to come between the middle-aged white guys club, AKA GOP candidates.

That takes away nothing at all from the truth that the Repugs are going to unleash their slavering Roves when our nominee is chosen.


Oh please.

This is getting a lot of national play because it so rich a story. Obviously these two could be the next president but that doesn't imply any seriousness, at all, to their use of brass knuckles.

Each and every candidate, no matter the party, faces the possibility of having their "dirty laundry" aired, but that is not what is happening here. No one is airing anything, and certainly not the media.

What is happening here is the deliberate attempt to convert clean white sheets into dirty rags. I have no doubt, what-so-ever, that the Democrats have such a strategy in wait for the general election, but what is so de-lovely is to see it being used now, on themselves.

I am anything but a Clintonista and yet I will argue with certainty that there was nothing racist or even unseemly about the comments made by Hillary and Bill that are drawing so much ire.

Hillary made an excellent point when she suggested that the all of the inspiration of MLK would have been for naught without the will of someone (LBJ) in actual power to make the dream come true. I know she wants to contrast Obama the Inspirer with Hillary the Doer, but she is right.

It takes nothing away from MLK to say that with another president, another congress his aspirations would have found fallow ground. As magnificent an individual as he was (and he certainly was), he could have easily been yet another magnificent individual that history chose not to remember because he could only take his cause so far.

Hillary was correct in pointing out that without LBJ there may not have been an MLK as we know him. Does anyone really think that each and every magnificent person that has ever lived has won? Has made his or her mark? Has cemented a place in history?

It was actually an entirely fair comparison to make: MLK the extraordinary inspirational leader needed LBJ the consummate experienced political leader to make his dream come true.

Obama is inspirational (albeit no MLK); Hillary is execution (albeit no LBJ)

Which do you want to bet on?

A perfectly sensible argument.

Again, I hate to come to the defense of Hillary, but let's face it, the folks who have come to the rescue of MLK's legacy in this regard are either morons or politically motivated. Let's hear it for the latter!

At the same time, the Obama campaign has shown its brilliance in this situation.

Surrogates wag their fingers at the Clintons. The Clintons decry use of the "race card" (a significant defeat in and of itself), and Obama gets to say:

This is baffling. The Clintons make comments that some believe are racist, and then they accuse me of playing the race card.

Brilliant!

Republicans beware.

Hillary was able to raise the "Where's The Beef" question in NH and stall Obamania, but now she has fallen into the Obama Campaign's trap. As Mara Liasson said this Sunday " The Clintons will never limit themselves to one set of brass knuckles when two will do."

Hoisted on their own petard!

De-lovely!
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 10:45 pm
Butrflynet wrote:
Many of us wrote and called Howard Dean today and told him it was time for him to step in and put an end to this destructive argument. Looks like he did. Thanks Howard.

It is unfortunate that it will continue though. Hillary taped a Tyra Banks show today that won't be aired until Friday where she rehashes everything all over again. Transcript here: http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0108/Taking_this_whole_reconciliation_thing_too_far.html

Expect the innocent exclamations of "it isn't my fault!" once the show airs just one day before the Nevada Caucus. If Clinton is sincerely interested in the party unity she expressed in her Statement, she will request the Tyra Banks show not be aired or be edited to remove her remarks that continue the argument.


Yeah, that will happen.

It's de-lovely.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 10:48 pm
I love it too, Finn. Let them drink their own party's poison and see how it tastes. Drink it all, guys. Chug alug it, and enjoy it, see how it tastes.

I want to point out one difference, however, when the Clintons served their poison on Republicans, the press went along 100%, so what Obama tastes now is diluted considerably from what we have had to drink in the past. Still, maybe you guys will at least get a bit of the taste, even if it is diluted somewhat. Enjoy!
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 10:53 pm
So Okie, burned down any black churches lately?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 10:55 pm
Check with your buddies, dys, and they will try to tell if I have or not. Get closer to the election, and if its Hillary, she will probably tell you that the Republican nominee has burned alot of them. Not personally of course, but by encouraging white supremicists with the Republican racist policies. Your buddies really are a sorry lot, dys.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 10:59 pm
okie wrote:
Check with your buddies, dys, and they will try to tell if I have or not. Get closer to the election, and if its Hillary, she will probably tell you that the Republican nominee has burned alot of them.
well, I did that Okie and I was told that there is not a safe black church in Oklahoma as long as the KKK branch of the republican party is active.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 11:20 pm
okie wrote:
I love it too, Finn. Let them drink their own party's poison and see how it tastes. Drink it all, guys. Chug alug it, and enjoy it, see how it tastes.

I want to point out one difference, however, when the Clintons served their poison on Republicans, the press went along 100%, so what Obama tastes now is diluted considerably from what we have had to drink in the past. Still, maybe you guys will at least get a bit of the taste, even if it is diluted somewhat. Enjoy!


True, but if the Clintons and Obama keep worrying the bone (as I predict they will) the press will not be able to look away.

Self-immolation - ain't it grand?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jan, 2008 05:55 am
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
okie wrote:
I love it too, Finn. Let them drink their own party's poison and see how it tastes. Drink it all, guys. Chug alug it, and enjoy it, see how it tastes.

I want to point out one difference, however, when the Clintons served their poison on Republicans, the press went along 100%, so what Obama tastes now is diluted considerably from what we have had to drink in the past. Still, maybe you guys will at least get a bit of the taste, even if it is diluted somewhat. Enjoy!


True, but if the Clintons and Obama keep worrying the bone (as I predict they will) the press will not be able to look away.

Self-immolation - ain't it grand?


This is fair enough. When the republicans munch away at each others' guts, we who vote liberal find the sight most agreeable.

There's a lesson here, dem supporters.



Meanwhile, every credible indicator (and there are so very many of them) suggests that high seas and okie and finn will soon need my shoulder to cry upon. I want you three to know that it will be available. Compassion demands no less.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jan, 2008 06:48 am
Laughing

Yeah. I'm there for 'em, too.
0 Replies
 
 

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