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It's Gonna Get Ugly For Barack and Hillary

 
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 12:12 pm
gentleMM and gentleokie

Trust me, you really ought to to continue with the hope that you'll outwit the fellow with whom you are presently talking. It's a seriously delusory hope. Girls will laugh at you.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 12:14 pm
blatham wrote:
gentleMM and gentleokie

Trust me, you really ought to to continue with the hope that you'll outwit the fellow with whom you are presently talking. It's a seriously delusory hope. Girls will laugh at you.


I'm not trying to outwit him.
I just wanted him to clarify his position, nothing more.

He did say that doing whatever it took to win an election, legal or not, was OK with him.
That clarified his position for me.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 01:30 pm
This last paragraph of the article needs to be repeated over and over again.

Quote:
All it will take is a spark (like Bob Johnson's toastmaster-from-hell introduction) for both campaigns to erupt in a blaze of fiery charges. It would be tragic if instead of making history, the Clinton and Obama campaigns end up giving the Democrats a primary fight they would rather forget.





http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/01/14/hillary/print.html

The Clinton-Obama contest gets rougher
Will the battle for the Democratic nomination turn into a debate about race and gender?
By Walter Shapiro

Jan. 14, 2008 |

Every warm-up speaker in a presidential campaign should aspire to be seen, heard (briefly) but never, ever remembered. Bob Johnson, the founder of TV's Black Entertainment Network (BET) and the owner of basketball's Charlotte Bobcats, broke that cardinal rule of politics with his 10-minute stream-of-conscious introduction of Hillary Clinton.

From the moment he took the microphone at a Clinton town meeting at Columbia College, Johnson came across as an accident waiting to happen. He started off referring to Barack Obama as "a young, articulate black man" before explaining, "As a black person, I can call him articulate." Johnson ended up sniffing that Obama is "a guy who says that: I want to be a reasonable, likable Sidney Poitier [in] 'Guess Who's Coming to Dinner.'"

But these were not the lines that gave Johnson Sunday honors for self-inflicted political wounds. What did it was Johnson's riff that Bill and Hillary Clinton were "deeply and emotionally involved in black issues when Barack Obama was doing something in the neighborhood ... I won't say what he was doing, but he said it in his book." Despite the laughter from the largely white crowd sparked by the obvious cocaine reference, the Clinton campaign later released a statement from Johnson claiming (warning to readers: Be prepared to giggle) that he was "referring to Barack Obama's time spent as a community organizer."

It is implausible that Clinton (or anyone else in her campaign) whispered to Johnson backstage, "Bob, be sure to mention that coke thing." As political surrogates, billionaires -- just like big-name actors -- are the sort of ego-driven figures who are far too self-assured to follow the make-no-waves scripts provided by a campaign. But what Johnson's off-message comments may reflect is the larger frustration within the Clinton campaign over how to challenge Obama, a candidate bathed in non-stick coating.

Normally, the afterglow from winning the New Hampshire primary lasts more than five days. But Sunday was a day unlikely to be commemorated in Hillary's personal highlight reel. In addition to Johnson's gift of gab, Clinton had to endure an hour of jousting with Tim Russert on "Meet the Press," complaining on six separate occasions that her words were being "taken out of context." She was buffeted over her earlier maladroit comment that Lyndon Johnson had more to do with passing civil rights legislation than Martin Luther King Jr. (It is never a good sign when a Democratic candidate feels compelled to stress, "Dr. King ... is one of the people I admire most in the world.") And once again Clinton had to justify her 2002 vote authorizing the use of force in Iraq. (It is never a good sign when a candidate for president complains to Russert that he is pursuing a "Jesuitical argument.")

After facing off with Russert, Clinton found blessed refuge at Sunday services at Northminster Presbyterian Church in Columbia. Speaking from the pulpit to the largely black congregation, Clinton declared, "This is a moment worthy of celebration. Many of our parents and our grandparents -- and, I dare say, probably many of us -- never thought they would see the day when an African-American and a woman were competing for the presidency of the United States." John Edwards is, of course, still in the mix, but it is a telling symbol of change that the white male is running third.

The problem is that with a dizzying two dozen primaries scheduled between now and Feb. 5, the Democrats run the risk of having the emotionally charged issues of race and gender dominate all other concerns in choosing a presidential nominee. The problems facing the next occupant of the Oval Office range from nukes in Pakistan to neighbors packing because their mortgage has been foreclosed. Yet the political news of the last week for Democrats has revolved around Obama's debate crack that his opponent is "likable enough," Clinton's battle with tears on the eve of the New Hampshire primary, and the skirmishing over Martin Luther King's legacy.

With Obama spending Sunday stumping in Nevada (a state whose Jan. 19 caucuses are now riled by legal maneuvering over voting sites) and Clinton in South Carolina (where the Jan. 26 primary may shape the race), we are in the final days when personal campaigning actually matters. After South Carolina, Americans are about as likely to win enough money in the lottery to retire as they are to talk to a presidential candidate face-to-face. It will all be a blur as voters grapple to make their decisions based on fleeting images and all too little time for serious deliberation. As Stanford University political scientist Jim Fishkin puts it, "We have voting in a few unrepresentative states and then we have a mass televised spectacular in which the aspiration for participatory democracy turns into passive audience democracy."

The irrationality of the "too much too soon" political calendar has long been known -- but only now are voters about to come face-to-face with its demands for instant and irrevocable decision-making. The Democrats will hold only three more debates before the Lollapalooza Feb. 5 primaries. Media consultants estimate that a week of TV advertising in California, New York and the more than 20 other Feb. 5 states will cost about $35 million. These are daunting numbers and it is possible that only Obama (who is already on the air in Arizona and California) will have the resources to commit to a full Feb. 5 ad buy. What this means is that many voters will not even have the luxury of studying anything as substantive as 30-second campaign spots before they vote in the primaries.

Tempers are frayed this week in both the Clinton and Obama camps. There is too much on the line -- and too little time. Speaking to reporters in Las Vegas, Obama complained that the Clintons have "decided to run a relentlessly negative campaign and I don't think anybody's who's watching would deny that." All it will take is a spark (like Bob Johnson's toastmaster-from-hell introduction) for both campaigns to erupt in a blaze of fiery charges. It would be tragic if instead of making history, the Clinton and Obama campaigns end up giving the Democrats a primary fight they would rather forget.


-- By Walter Shapiro
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 01:31 pm
dyslexia wrote:
okie wrote:
they will use the same stuff to beat any Republican.
good, whatever it takes to bring democracy back to the U.S.A.

This is a representative republic, not a pure democracy, to be accurate, but it is just as democratic as it has always been, dyslexia, so you might want to read up on this a little.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 01:35 pm
dyslexia wrote:
okie wrote:
So dyslexia is all for cheating to win. And the Goldwater guy is a liberal now. Go figure. I think he needs a shrink.
okie it's kinda funny how last year you were so confused when I stated that I had voted for Goldwater, I see life still confuses you. Okie, I don't really mind stupidity, there's certainly enough of it on these boards but your wilfull stupidity is often hard to tolerate.

dyslexia, Goldwater was the recognized leader of the conservative wing of the Republican Party, so if you claim that your support of the modern liberal Democrat is being consistent, I think you are the confused one. You also claim to be a big gun rights guy, I think I recall, and the liberal Democrat is about as foreign to that belief as you can find.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 01:37 pm
blatham wrote:
gentleMM and gentleokie

Trust me, you really ought to to continue with the hope that you'll outwit the fellow with whom you are presently talking. It's a seriously delusory hope. Girls will laugh at you.

He has been outwitted numerous times already. He may not realize it, and perhaps you don't either.

Anyway, the subject of this thread is the ugliness, and it is mainly that of Hillary right now. I would love to see the press finally start talking about the racism in the Clintons past. After all, Fullbright was one of Bill's heros, remember. The press loves to twist things against Republicans, and I think its time the truth of things begins to be talked about instead.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 01:40 pm
okie wrote:
blatham wrote:
gentleMM and gentleokie

Trust me, you really ought to to continue with the hope that you'll outwit the fellow with whom you are presently talking. It's a seriously delusory hope. Girls will laugh at you.

He has been outwitted numerous times already. He may not realize it, and perhaps you don't either.
Absolutely true okie, I feel outwitted every time you post.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 01:41 pm
You outwit yourself, dys. It doesn't take me or anyone else to do it.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 01:44 pm
okie wrote:
You outwit yourself, dys. It doesn't take me or anyone else to do it.
Yes dear.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 01:59 pm
giggles
0 Replies
 
Gala
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 02:04 pm
Butrflynet wrote:
This last paragraph of the article needs to be repeated over and over again.

Quote:
All it will take is a spark (like Bob Johnson's toastmaster-from-hell introduction) for both campaigns to erupt in a blaze of fiery charges. It would be tragic if instead of making history, the Clinton and Obama campaigns end up giving the Democrats a primary fight they would rather forget.


Thanks for posting this article.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 02:14 pm
Hannity is now replaying the ads from previous campaigns where Clinton accused the Republicans of burning black churchs, KKK insinuations, and dragging blacks to death. Yes, yes, these people are such great wholesome people. I love it, let their own party taste their own poison.

Pay attention, Snood, this is your party's heros.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 02:28 pm
What's a Hannity?


(I don't have cable so it must be a cable talking head.)
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 02:37 pm
Sean Hannity on the radio.

Somewhat along the lines of the subject here, some folks might want to read the following, to become a little more educated about racial issues for the two parties:

http://www.nationalblackrepublicans.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=pages.DYK-Why%20I%20am%20a%20Black%20Republican&tp_preview=true

And this about the Democrats owing the black community an apology:

http://www.nationalblackrepublicans.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=pages.DYK-Democrats%20Owe%20Blacks%20an%20Apology&tp_preview=true
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 02:44 pm
Sean Hannity has wet dreams about Hillary and wakes up with the self-loathing of a repressed gay man.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 02:47 pm
Please don't dive into the muck as Roxxxanne does on a regular basis. Is that all you have to offer when confronted with the truth?

As a Republican, I don't forget the poison used by the Democrats and the media on us, and I think it is instructive that they taste it for a while, in fact take some big swigs of it, and see how it tastes.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 03:12 pm
Your posting stuff that comes out of Hannity's mouth and you're asking me not to dive into the muck? It doesn't strike you that Hannity has a bit of an obsession?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 03:28 pm
It wouldn't bother you to be accused by insinuation of burning black churches or chain dragging people to death? Okay, so be it. Keep living in denial.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 03:33 pm
So Okie, burned any black churches lately?
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2008 03:50 pm
From the New York Times of a century ago:

Quote:
........... The Republican Party committed a great public crime when it gave the right of suffrage to the blacks. . . . So long as the Fifteenth Amendment stands, the menace of the rule of the blacks will impend, and the safeguards against it must be maintained."

--Editorial, "The Political Future of the South," New York Times, May 10, 1900)


http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110011033

Anybody on this thread doesn't like the Republican Party or the 15th Amendment can keep criticizing Okie Smile
0 Replies
 
 

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