It's Gonna Get Ugly For Barack and Hillary

does it remind you of Goldwater and Rockefeller?

Rather small sample from which to draw conclusions, but based on the postings within A2K it seems the reaction to the conflict seems to be:

Obama Supporters: This is terrible. Why do they have to fight? I'm getting angry with Hillary for stirring this all up. We're playing into the hands of the Republicans.

Clinton Supporters: He asked for it. He's playing with the Big Boys now. If he can't take this he has no chance of beating the Republicans.

Interesting.

That seems to be pretty much it...

WASHINGTON (CNN) --

Sen. Hillary Clinton on Tuesday said Sen. Barack Obama had become frustrated by his losses in New Hampshire and Nevada, and she also accused her opponent of not backing up his words with action.

(BAM! After the bell.)

Sen. Hillary Clinton and Sen. Barack Obama started arguing almost as soon as Monday night's debate began.

1 of 2 Obama responded quickly, saying Clinton was willing to "fudge the truth" in her quest for the Democratic presidential nomination.

(At least he's able to resist calling her and her husband liars - althought that is precisely what they are. Goebbel's The Big Lie strategy. Say enough times that Obama is a Regan devotee and even though it's a lie, people will begin to believe it. Not only is this lying, it's a cynical attempt to manipulate people that requires a belief that the people are basically all rubes who are easily duped.)

The bitter exchange continued the sharp confrontations from Monday night's Democratic debate in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina.

The sniping came four days before Saturday's Democratic primary in South Carolina.

This first Democratic primary in the South is crucial. It's the candidates' last contest before the Super Tuesday primaries February 5 in which voters cast ballots in 24 states.

"Sen. Obama is very frustrated," Clinton told reporters in Washington. "The events of the last 10 or so days, particularly the outcomes of New Hampshire and Nevada, have apparently convinced him to adopt a different strategy.

"He came last night looking for a fight, and he was determined and launched right in, and I thought it was important to set the record straight." (And knock him on his punk-ass!-Wouldn't Democrats find this sort of macho aggression distasteful in a man?)

"Clearly, I believe that words matter, but I think actions matter more," Clinton said. "And time and time again we see where the words and actions don't match, and I think there were a number of examples of that last night." (That's the message - Big Talk; No Action)

Clinton also said Obama's "present" votes as an Illinois state senator showed an unwillingness to make difficult choices. (Have to agree with this one - it's tough to understand how there were quirky technical reasons to justify 100 "present" votes)

"I think you saw that both Sen. Edwards and I don't believe you can vote 'present' as president," she said, referring to former Sen. John Edwards, the other candidate in Monday's debate. "The buck stops in the Oval Office. You have to make these tough decisions; it has to be yes or no. Maybe is not an option."

Responding to Clinton's comments during a conference call with reporters Tuesday, Obama said the senator from New York and former President Clinton have been "attacking me in ways that are not accurate."
(Message: They're big fat liars!)

"Sen. Clinton announced while we were still in Iowa that this was going to be her strategy and called it the 'fun part' of campaigning. (Did she really?)I don't think it's the fun part to fudge the truth," he said.

"If you get the kind of looseness with the facts that Sen. Clinton's displayed and you're willing to say anything to get a political or tactical advantage, that erodes people's trust in government. It makes them cynical," Obama said.

"It's important for our campaign to not only make sure the record is correct when folks are saying things that don't jive with the facts but also that we are sending a message to voters that we're going to bring about a different kind of politics over the long term."

(Bingo! So he can't get down in the mud with her!)

Minutes into Monday night's debate, which CNN and the Congressional Black Caucus Institute sponsored, Clinton and Obama -- ranked first and second in most national polls, (What polls have Edwards at first or second?) respectively -- started attacking each other.

The exchanges saw the two interrupting each other and turning to direct their responses to each other instead of the panel of moderators.

"It is very difficult having a standup debate with you because you never take responsibility for any vote," Clinton said. She accused Obama of not supporting a Senate amendment that would have capped the interest rate on credit cards at 30 percent. "It's just very difficult to get a straight answer."

The comment drew boos from Obama supporters.

Obama said Clinton had worked as "a corporate lawyer sitting on the board of Wal-Mart" while he was a community organizer. (That's offense, not defense) Clinton jabbed Obama for representing a slumlord when he was a lawyer in Chicago. (She's desperate for this story to be addressed. Since the press refuses to bring it up, she will)

The exchanges allowed Edwards, a South Carolina native, to cast himself as the candidate more interested in policy discussions than political sniping.

"Between all the allegations for Hillary serving on the Wal-Mart board, and Sen. Obama working for a slumlord, I was proud to represent the grown-up wing of the Democratic Party last night," Edwards told supporters during a rally Tuesday in Conway, South Carolina.

"All those kind of personal attacks going on, it doesn't do a thing to get somebody health care that doesn't have health care, it doesn't do a thing to get kids the kind of education that they need. We have work to do in this country."

When asked about the recent exchanges between his wife and Obama, former President Clinton said voters ask him about the economy, the war in Iraq and national security concerns, not about "the inevitable back-and-forth that happens in every campaign." (Cute)

"Sometimes when you have a family feud it's harsher than if you have a feud with a family in another clan because you have to dig so hard to get to where the differences are," he said while campaigning for his wife in Columbia, South Carolina, Tuesday. (Even cuter)

A recent national poll showed 59 percent of black Democrats backing Obama, compared with 31 percent for Clinton. The support marks a sharp increase from the early days of the campaign and may be a big factor in South Carolina, where as many as half the voters in the Democratic primary will be African-Americans.

Clinton, who scored victories in the New Hampshire primary and Nevada caucuses, could use a win in the state to paint herself as the clear front-runner going into Super Tuesday. (And she will be if she wins SC)

Obama, who won the Iowa caucuses, would shift momentum to himself after Clinton's back-to-back wins, while Edwards needs a victory to shed his image as a perennial third-place finisher.

I doubt anyone can get nastier than Hillary Clinton.

Oh she's a woman alright. We just forgot about that side of a woman. Maybe she can handle the terrorist.

Terrorist are kind of like 2 year olds......with bombs.

And Obama, WOW, for a minute I thoght he was gonna go gangster on her.

It had to come out. Their human not robots.

Yep (see 11-second vid)


None. A very rare state poll has Edwards in second (Oklahoma is the only one I can think of now that Iowa is out of the way), but no national polls.

Sam Boyd:

FWIW, on Intrade.com, where they have a shares market of sorts going on about the outcome of the nomination process, Hillary shares dropped from 67.5 (out of 100) yesterday afternoon to 65 by the end of the evening, but she's halfway back up at 66 now.

Obama went from 31.5 yesterday afternoon to 35 by the end of the evening, but was back down to 32 again by tonight.

Edwards went from 0.9 to 1.4 and is now back down to 0.9 again.

So basically, it's an indication of the debate itself pushing the CW slightly away from Hillary, but once a day had passed it was mostly a wash.

Or to take a step back, Obama is still lower in the stakes than he was in between his Iowa win and his Nevada loss, but higher than he was before his Iowa win.

Remember the economy was the worst since the Great Depression lie that the Clintons used on Bush I? That was only one of countless ones. I think they studied Hitler's strategies and they have learned them well, Finn. That is not a joke. These people studied that kind of stuff in their college days, and they have been devotees of those types of people in their past. People think it is a joke, but some of us have regarded these people as dangerous ever since they came on the political scene. They are not going to go quietly, and Obama is the best hope of the party to scuttle them, but if he ever gains an edge in the polls, look out, Obama, I would definitely watch your back side. It is not a joke. These people are playing for keeps.

Who is Sam Boyd?

The guy who wrote that post...

Good grief, how pathetic, Ms. Clinton is not my mommy and Obama is not my daddy. If thats how some people think, no wonder we are in trouble. Is this country that pathological? Perhaps that party is, but not mine.

No kidding.

You know nothing more about him?

What difference does it make who wrote the post? Do any us of know one another here in A2k? Do we have to know all about each poster before commenting on each post?

Mommy and Daddy are metaphors; okie.

On the whole; good post, nimh and I agree.

It is now apparent that Bill is using Hillery as his puppet. He wants to get her elected so he can be president again. Apparently, Hillery is unable to win any election based upon her own campaign skills, and lack of actual governing experience.

Don't know if this was already posted, but I'd been waiting for it to come out.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/clinton-obama_slugfest.html

Well; your right about the Regan thing. Clinton did clearly mischaracterize what Obama said. However, some of the acusations are true; he does skip some votes by just voting present or some other cop out; his Iraq war stance is confusing when you look at his record of voting and what he says. He has explanation for them; but they don't really pan out kind of like the single tax payer thing.

All in all; the Clintons are going after Obama in a big way; but that is what they do; some of what they say is true; some of it is not. Politics. I don't really see Obama being much different in some ways; but I like the speech about the republicans in the link. I feel it make a lot of sense. He sort of talks like people around my part of the country talks and I can understand him. I like him and if he wins; it will be just fine with me.

It's a common practice in the Illinois state leg. Did you hear him talking about it at the debate?

Cycloptichorn

Just because you have an option for something don't mean you have to do it. It seems to me; he just played it safe in most cases.

From the link freeduck left.





Listen; I am not knocking him; but making him out to be saint ain't helping anything. He is a good democrat and I agree with most of what he says; but he is also a good politician. Something I admire as well. You have to be a good politician to do anything in government or else you may as well stay home. Since most democrats seem to like both of them; I guess they have to point out each other failings in order to win over the other one; even if they make it up it seems. (I think they should stop short of that)

In any event; I am not doing a good job ignoring it all. I don't watch it on tv; but catch up to it on the internet. Maybe I miss some parts but its better on my nerves.