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Some Hell/Death/Sin questions

 
 
Reply Sat 5 Jan, 2008 07:16 pm
I was searching for disaster preparedness information as one of my new years resolutions and I stumbled across this nugget of "truth" from a website.


http://www.secretsofsurvival.com/survival/judgment_day.html
Quote:
Are You a Good Person? Not According to the Bible

The Bible states that every person is born a sinner, and that we live in a fallen world under the control of Satan.

The Bible also states that the 'wages of sin is death'.

And the penalty of sin is eternal Hell.

All people are told by God to keep his Law, The Ten Commandments (though many don't).

If you've ever told a lie, that makes you a liar (and you've broken the 9th Commandment).

If you've ever stolen anything, that makes you a thief (and you've broken the 8th Commandment).

The Bible says all "liars will have their part in the lake of fire". And "no thief or adulterer will ever enter the kingdom of heaven".

Did you know that Jesus said even to look at a woman with lust in your eyes is adultery? All men are guilty of that. If it wasn't for Jesus death on the cross, all men would be destined for Hell. (That's why it's also a sin to look at pornography.)

However, Jesus Christ (as you've probably heard) died on the cross for your sins, to save you from the wrath that's going to come on the earth, and to save you from Hell.

He paid the penalty for your sins.

This is a free gift and all you have to do is sincerely ask for it, by telling God that you accept Jesus death for your sins, and you want his forgiveness. You will only be forgiven if you accept Christ as your personal Savior and then seek with all your heart to obey God's commands and turn away from sin. You are also required to forgive all others, even your enemies, who Jesus told us to pray for.

Matthew 6:14 - For if you forgive people their wrongdoing, your heavenly Father will forgive you as well. But if you don't forgive people, your Father will not forgive your wrongdoing.

Matthew 5:44 - But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.




I guess my questions for the followers of the Hypothesis of Christianity are:

1) If you accept Christ into your life, believe with your heart, etc but you continue to knowlingly commit sin (such as living and having sex with your boyfriend/girlfriend even AFTER you've become a Christian) and you die before fixing this problem, will you go to heaven?

2) Same question as above, but instead of the sex example, what about lying or not forgiving others (such as your enemies)?

3) Do those on this board who have an extreme hatred for terrorists for example or Demokkkrats (you know who are), do you believe in the part of the bible that says you should forgive your enemies or god will not forgive you (and I assume you'll go to hell).
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jan, 2008 09:08 pm
Re: Some Hell/Death/Sin questions
maporsche wrote:
. . .
1) If you accept Christ into your life, believe with your heart, etc but you continue to knowlingly commit sin (such as living and having sex with your boyfriend/girlfriend even AFTER you've become a Christian) and you die before fixing this problem, will you go to heaven?

2) Same question as above, but instead of the sex example, what about lying or not forgiving others (such as your enemies)? . . .
"For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left . . ."(Hebrews 10:26)
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anton bonnier
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jan, 2008 10:13 pm
Thank.. God-Jesus-Ares-dionysus-hephestus and most important.. Zeus, that I'm not a Christian, with my history I know where I would end up.... but I solved that, I have become a born again atheist... thanks to God-Jesus-Ares-dionysus-hephestus and Zeus.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jan, 2008 12:31 am
http://web4.ehost-services.com/el2ton1/sleepysmiley03.gif
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curtis73
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jan, 2008 05:42 am
Its an unanswerable paradox. Christians (how I was raised) believe in a god of unconditional love who will condemn you to hell for all eternity for thinking about sex with your wife's sister. When asked to confront this paradox, there is no logical answer you can give. I never got the concept of a god who asks us to forgive, but she requires us to beg forgiveness or she'll send us to hell??? Never quite understood that one. The god I believe in isn't a hypocrite

Thank goodness my wife doesn't have a sister. Smile
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jan, 2008 08:35 am
Everyone sins. Being a Christian does not mean you become or are perfect and never sin. The Bible says IF we sin we have an advocate with the Father, which is Jesus Christ. If we repent from our sins and turn from them we are forgiven.

We are not to live a lifestyle of sin. When you become a Christian we are a new creature in Christ and therefore do our best to not sin.
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jan, 2008 09:14 am
Quote:
Everyone sins


I'll bet they all have fun doing it too... Laughing
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maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jan, 2008 10:19 am
Arella Mae wrote:
Everyone sins. Being a Christian does not mean you become or are perfect and never sin. The Bible says IF we sin we have an advocate with the Father, which is Jesus Christ. If we repent from our sins and turn from them we are forgiven.

We are not to live a lifestyle of sin. When you become a Christian we are a new creature in Christ and therefore do our best to not sin.



I know 3 Christian females who are living in a lifestyle of sin. They live with their boyfriends, whom they are not married to and who they continue to have sex with. They have done this for 1-4 years and at least 2 of them were raised Christian so they've been Christians their entire lives.

I guess my point is that they know what they are doing is wrong, but they make a conscious effort EVERY DAY to continue doing what they are doing. Will god let you repent for the exact same sin every single day if you willingly keep allowing that sin to continue.

MA, do you feel that Christians who KNOW what they are doing is bad, but they continue to do it repeatedly in spite of what the bible says are truly forgiven in the eyes of Christ. If this is what you believe, then what is your take on Neo's verse above.








Neo, thank you for your post, I think that answered many of my questions. It would appear with my unsaved eyes and w/o the holy spirit guiding my bible reading that the answer is that they would not be saved and will instead burn in hell with me.






I still haven't heard from any of the anti-terrorist pro-christianity crowd about their take on these verses.
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jan, 2008 10:33 am
I am a black hearted sinner but I have enough residual Christian belief that some Christian principles still guide certain areas of my life... make me act in some ways and prevent me from doing some things I might otherwise.

I think that the Christian message has been so manipulated and perverted to the purposes of those in power over CENTURIES that it's now impossible to tell what's right and what isn't, so you have to go with what you know and hope for the best.

I guess that's why they call it faith.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jan, 2008 10:41 am
maporsche wrote:
. . . Neo, thank you for your post, I think that answered many of my questions. It would appear with my unsaved eyes and w/o the holy spirit guiding my bible reading that the answer is that they would not be saved and will instead burn in hell with me.






I still haven't heard from any of the anti-terrorist pro-christianity crowd about their take on these verses.
Except that I forgot to mention there is no such thing as a fiery hell.

When you're dead, you're dead.
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maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jan, 2008 10:44 am
neologist wrote:
maporsche wrote:
. . . Neo, thank you for your post, I think that answered many of my questions. It would appear with my unsaved eyes and w/o the holy spirit guiding my bible reading that the answer is that they would not be saved and will instead burn in hell with me.

I still haven't heard from any of the anti-terrorist pro-christianity crowd about their take on these verses.
Except that I forgot to mention there is no such thing as a fiery hell.

When you're dead, you're dead.


Well, of course that's your opinion (and reading many of your posts, I'm sure you have a mutitude of bible verses that support that opinion) but I don't think that your viewpoint is in the majority here. Not that that would make it wrong; but I'm really curious how those who do believe in hell would interpret the verse you posted and what will likely happen to many of the Christians today.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jan, 2008 11:16 am
Jesus said, IF you love me, keep my commandments. The Bible also says, (paraphrased) that just because we are saved by the sacrifice of Christ we are not then given the license to continue and sin because we can be forgiven.

Being "saved" is never an excuse to continue in sin. Making a conscience decision to sin, which in my opinion, is what living with someone without the benefit of marriage would be, is certainly not being repentant according to the Bible.
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squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jan, 2008 12:48 pm
I had to have the carpets cleaned after the New Years Eve party at the Clubhouse. The guy came in, did a good job, told me he would bill the management company and started to leave.

As he got to the door he turned and asked if any churches or bible study groups meet in the Clubhouse. I said no. He commented on it being a beautiful facility and then whipped out a pamphlet. I put my hand up and said "That's okay, I'm familiar with the bible and its teachings."

He then went on for three or four minutes about how five years ago he was a sinner, a horrible sinner, a nothing chell of a man and then he found jesus. (yes, I refrained from asking if he was behind the couch)

I smiled and nodded. At what I percieved as a good time to jump in I said "I'm happy for you. Sounds like you are happier with yourself now."

He said that he is and asked if I ever attend bible studies. I said no, but that there is a group in the community that meets. He suggested that I attend the bible study to learn more about the teachings of christ and his power of eternal love and...

Then he stopped for a second and said "Course, you have to be careful. Not everyone teaches the bible the right way."

I said "Yes. That does seem to get to the crux of it, doesn't it."

He smiled and walked out.
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real life
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jan, 2008 03:12 pm
maporsche wrote:

I know 3 Christian females who..........


I don't think you're going to have to answer for them.
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maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jan, 2008 03:51 pm
real life wrote:
maporsche wrote:

I know 3 Christian females who..........


I don't think you're going to have to answer for them.


I don't think they're going to have to answer for anything either.
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curtis73
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jan, 2008 04:06 pm
Arella Mae wrote:
Jesus said, IF you love me, keep my commandments.


Which is (in my opinion) the absolute basis for all that is hypocritical about the basis of christian faith. Jesus and God both say many times throughout the bible that they will always love us, always forgive us if we ask. The christian church presents you with a god of unconditional love but you only get that love if you meet his conditions. That is the very antithesis of unconditional love. We're talking about living in sin, choosing to sin, and continuing sin. We're debating what conditions have to be met in order to get this unconditional love.

Is it just me or is this so obvious? I think this is the most insane BS ever created. Its like staying in an abusive relationship because "he says he loves me." He's saying one thing but showing you another. If that happens all of your friends rally around you and have an intervention. When God does it through the bible, we all applaud and say, "good for you and your faith"

Its an unanswerable paradox. The moment you start discussing if ANY sin is forgivable and under what conditions it can be forgiven, the entire new testament interpretation of god crumbles.

And the ten commandments... weren't god's law. They were originally given to us as god's promises to US, but that's another brilliant constantine contribution to turning a holy scripture into volunteer slavery propoganda
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jan, 2008 05:11 pm
Curtis,

There is only one sin that won't be forgiven in this life or in the next and that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Everything else can be forgiven.

You make it sound as though we should be able to do anything we please and it should be ok. My parents love me. They will always love me. But they disciplined me when I did wrong. God is much like a parent.
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jan, 2008 11:15 pm
Re: Some Hell/Death/Sin questions
maporsche wrote:

I guess my questions for the followers of the Hypothesis of Christianity are:

1) If you accept Christ into your life, believe with your heart, etc but you continue to knowlingly commit sin (such as living and having sex with your boyfriend/girlfriend even AFTER you've become a Christian) and you die before fixing this problem, will you go to heaven?

2) Same question as above, but instead of the sex example, what about lying or not forgiving others (such as your enemies)?

3) Do those on this board who have an extreme hatred for terrorists for example or Demokkkrats (you know who are), do you believe in the part of the bible that says you should forgive your enemies or god will not forgive you (and I assume you'll go to hell).



I don't "hate" demokkkrats: I pity them.

Christianity is not a perfect religion and there are few aspects of society from 2000 years ago which are totally logical or practical today; the teachings of Christ are amongst those few things.

I view Christianity much as Churchill viewed democracy, i.e. as the worst religion there could possibly be except for all those other religions, including evolution and secular humanism which are also religions.

One thing which appears as a stark contrast between Christ and other religious leaders is that Christ's mission was in this world, and among men. You simply do not read about Jesus riding off to heaven on a magic camel or flying carpet, or sitting in a cave on some island until he starts to hallucinate, or hiding his face in a hat until he trips something like the "book of Mormon".

And the thing I note recently is that, in the 8-year reign of terror of the KKKlintler regime, the only groups of people I ever noticed trying to stand up to the beast and face it down were Christians.
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jan, 2008 11:16 pm
Oh, yeah, the "fallen state" thing is basically a breakdown in communications which you can read about in ancient literature if you have the inclination to.
I've mentioned that once or twice in other threads.
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daniellejean
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jan, 2008 04:09 am
Aerella Mae - Could you define "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" for me and provide us with the verse that says that it can't be forgiven?

I ask this because I am curious if that means that if you ever doubt God, and in a fit of rage or sadness or utter despair, you cry out against Him, then He can't forgive you.

Last year, I had a relationship with an Athiest which ended because I had a hard time accepting his religious choice and also because I was worried about his soul. BUT - I ended up realizing that I know very little about how God will judge us in the end, even if I try to use scripture as a guide. Also, I realized that some people's religious choices are hardly under their own control, at least not momentarily. My ex couldn't believe in a God who had caused him such suffering through the loss (death) of his ex-girlfriend. I know that suffering is a part of life, and perhaps he will too in the end. But I think that God might have sympathy for the incapacity of the human heart to trancend certain moments of despair.

Or what about people born into other Religions? How many of us Christians are Christian because we were born that way? Certainly there is a moment where you grow to either accept or reject your faith, but rarely do people choose another faith in lieu of their original. A Muslim or Jew or Hindu might not find it so easy to reject their faith which they have been taught is right for Christianity just as Christians would have a hard time rejecting their faith for Islam, Judaism, or Hinduism.

Certainly people of other faiths or athiests have in some ways rejected the Holy Spirit, either through lack of knowledge or direct rejection. But I wonder if God has sympathy for circumstances. I think He does, if He exists and is who Christians say He is. But there - I've expressed doubt even in writing. If God knows me, He knows why I doubt.
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