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CIGNA HealthCare Murders Teenage Girl

 
 
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2007 06:26 am
The guy may be part of the problem but he's not the only part of the problem. I am Canadian and have zero interest in American politics so for me this is not about Edwards.

I am debating with you his (as a lawyer) culpability. He is contracted to defend his client, which he apparently does very well. The opposition apparently does not seem to have his oratory or emotive skills. That is their problem. And a jury should NOT be swayed by sentiment. That is their problem. They perhaps were not clearly instructed by the judge on what to consider when deliberating. And that is his problem. Three other sources of culpability here.

You cannot blame one man when it is the fault of many, including the system. That is my argument.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2007 06:41 am
OCCOM BILL
Quote:
John Edwards made a career out of making innocent people pay for other innocent people's tragedy. One need not be a saint to recognize there is nothing noble in that. There is, in fact, ample cause for scorn.

This is validation that the conservos are scared to death of Edwards. O Bills statement is one that is vaccus and terror filled (He sounds like Limbaugh trying to make a point and it just blows up in his face).

Edwards, in his big settlemets with tobacco companies, financed the entire cases by using his resources, then he went after tobacco companies , hardly a valid defin ition of "innocent people".

Im gonna have to re-look at a ticket of Edwards-Biden, (course Biden is too closely aligned as an erzats GOP)
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2007 06:45 am
The way I originally read this story it was not clear-cut or anything like that; the girl had had several other problems and it was not clear that she was in condition to survive a liver-transplant operation or that anybody would have been doing her any favors.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2007 06:56 am
medical science has about a 30 year record of successful transplant surgery. The usual claim that procedures are "experimental" is about as sincere as the tobacco CEO's testifying that smoking is NOT harmful.

PS, my comments about Edwards were premature. He made most of his 175 MM case decisions and settlements from PRODUCT LIABILITY CLAIMS, not tobacco. Even better, since he had to finance the claims from his own resources , (unless , of course he pooled his resources with other lawfirms and then, by agreement would split the fees)
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2007 08:15 am
Lawyering doubles the cost of medicine in the US. The first and most obvious thing I'd do if charged with fixing the system would be the elimination of lawsuits against doctors; needed are a general fund to compensate victims of malpractice for actual damage and a system for pulling the licenses of doctors or surgeons who screw up in any sort of an indefensible manner.

That of course would knock one of the two main financial pillars out from under the demoKKKrat party, the other being govtl. workers' unions, particularly the NEA.

The irony of the thing is that the dems claim to be the party of the common man while their money all comes from people who view the common man as their lawful prey.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2007 09:35 am
OB if you or one of your children or nieces or nephews ever get their guts sucked out of a pool drain or some such thing where you have to suffer the heartbreak of looking at your child or relatives child for the rest of your life and feel the REAL PAIN and the NEVERENDING HEARTBREAK of seeing the quality of their lives destroyed.... I feel certain, and I hope matter of fact, that you'll just run your finger down the yellow pages and get the cheapest attorney you can find.

Obviously a man of your principle will not take any pains to hire the attorney with the track record of getting children and thier families the best settlements possible.

That's his job, and now he's a scumbag for doing it so well. You lose.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2007 09:48 am
OB's understandings are simplistic and spoon-fed by newsclips. An attorney IS and dvocate for his client and when he takes on plaintiffs suits, its as if you were to take your own savings and investing it to an outcome that is only dictated by your skills. To declare that "scumbag" shows a complete nonunderstanding of professions. Many of professional people have codes of ethics within which they opearate. Edwards did everything he could in a skillful and honorable fashion. Unlike our present (ugh) occupant of the WHite House.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2007 09:50 am
I don't have any comment about Edwards' arguing style as I have nothing to compare it to, but with regard to the Sta-rite case, Wikipedia has this to say:

Quote:
The biggest case of his legal career was a 1997 product liability lawsuit against Sta-Rite, the manufacturer of a defective pool drain cover. The case involved a three-year-old girl[13] who was disemboweled by the suction power of the pool drain pump when she sat on an open pool drain whose protective cover other children at the pool had removed, after the swim club had failed to install the cover properly. Despite 12 prior suits with similar claims, Sta-Rite continued to make and sell drain covers lacking warnings. Sta-Rite protested that an additional warning would have made no difference because the pool owners already knew the importance of keeping the cover secured.


So, this happened 12 times before and the company couldn't see fit to put a sticker on the drain or install any kind of safety measure that would prevent little three year old girls being disemboweled? I think they deserved to pay for that. If the award was excessive, you have the jury to blame for that.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2007 09:55 am
and the judge was empowered to readjust any of the awards up or down, or to not grant PUNITIVE awards. Were punies not awrded in the STa rite case?
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2007 09:59 am
excessive to who? I suppose they could have given the CEO over to the family of the little girl and let them rip him from limb to limb or torture him to death and that would have felt real good, but then how would they pay for the lifetime of special care this little girl will require? For the quality of life she willl never enjoy? For the quality of life that's been robbed from the parents and siblings? Because I have news for you, when a person becomes permanently f*cked up and requires care for the rest of their lives it ripples out and touches a lot of people.

Edwards is a hero is what he is as are all attorneys who win settlements for people who deserve it.
to lump then in with the McDonalds coffee types is ignorance at it's finest.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2007 10:07 am
farmerman wrote:
and the judge was empowered to readjust any of the awards up or down, or to not grant PUNITIVE awards. Were punies not awrded in the STa rite case?


According to the same source ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Edwards ):

Quote:
The company settled for the $25 million while the jury was deliberating additional punitive damages, rather than risk losing an appeal.


So the $25 million didn't include punitive damages because the company settled before that could happen.

This part goes to the scumbag accusation:
Quote:
The family said that they hired Edwards over other attorneys because he alone had offered to accept a smaller percentage as fee unless the award was unexpectedly high, while all of the other lawyers they spoke with said they required the full one-third fee. The size of the jury award was unprecedented, and Edwards did receive the standard one-third plus expenses fee typical of contingency cases.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2007 10:07 am
heres a synopsis of Edwards cases in which there was a verdict or settlement
Quote:
PERSONAL INJURY & PRODUCT LIABILITY CASES
Beyond representing clients in routine personal injury cases, Edwards developed a specialty in swimming pool injury cases. In one case involving a 5-year-old girl who was disemboweled by suction from a pool drain, the jury awarded her $25M, the highest personal injury award in North Carolina history at the time.
Case Summary of Facts Case Type Result
Lakey v. Sta-Rite Industries
(Wake Co. Superior Ct., NC, 1996) 5-year-old girl was disemboweled, but survived, after being caught and suctioned by wading pool's defective drain. Despite 12 prior suits with similar claims, manufacturer continued to make and sell drain covers lacking warnings. Product
Liability $25M
settlement
Passe v. General Transport Systems, Inc.
(Wake Co. Superior Ct., NC, 1997) 850-lb. box delivered to attorney's home, fell on him breaking his back, causing paraplegia, and confinement to wheelchair. Negligence $4M
settlement
Weckbacher v. J.B. Hunt Transport
Servs., Inc.
(U.S. Dist. Ct., E.D.N.C. 1997) 33-year-old died during rescue attempt after head-on pickup-tractor-trailer collision. Settlement included worker's comp claim. Wrongful Death $3M
settlement
Buck v. Atlantic Veneer Corp.
(Carteret Co. Superior Ct., NC, 1987) Worker fractured both ankles, jaw, and skull after fall from 24-foot scaffold in defendant's plywood plant. Premises
Liability $2.3M
verdict
Morgan v. Southeast Jurisdictional Admin.
Council, Inc.
(Wake Co. Superior Ct., NC, 1988) 14-year-old girl rendered quadriplegic from neck injury resulting from improperly supervised dive into shallow end of defendants' pool. Premises
Liability $875K
settlement


MEDICAL MALPRACTICE CASES
Another specialty Edwards developed was in medical malpractice cases involving problems during births of babies. According to the New York Times, after Edwards won a $6.5M verdict for a baby born with cerbral-palsy, he filed at least 20 similar lawsuits against doctors and hospitals in deliveries gone wrong, winning verdicts and settlements of more than $60M.
Case Summary of Facts Case Type Result
Griffin v. Teague, et al.
(Mecklenburg Co. Superior Ct., NC, 1997) Application of abdominal pressure and delay in performing c-section caused brain damage to infant and resulted in child having cerebral palsy and spastic quadriplegia. Verdict set record for malpractice award. Medical Malpractice $23.25M
verdict

Campbell v. Pitt County Memorial Hosp.
(Pitt County, NC, 1985) Infant born with cerebral palsy after breech birth via vaginal delivery, rather than cesarean. Established North Carolina precedent of physician and hospital liability for failing to determine if patient understood risks of particular procedure. Medical
Malpractice $5.75M
settlement
Wiggs v. Glover, et al. Plaintiff alleged infant's severe cerebral palsy was caused by negligent administration of pitocin, failure to use fetal monitor, or timely intervening in baby's fetal distress. Medical
Malpractice 2.5M
settlement
Cooper v. Craven Regional Med. Ctr., et al. Infant suffered severe brain damage after obstetrician failed to moderate use of Picotin after baby displayed clear fetal distress. Medical
Malpractice $2.5M
settlement
Dixon v. Pitt County Memorial Hospital
(Pitt County, NC) Birth-related injuries including cerebral palsy and mental retardation allegedly caused by obstetrician's failure to diagnose fetal distress, including umbilical cord wrapped around baby's neck prior to delivery. Medical
Malpractice 2.4M
settlement
Sawyer v. St. Joseph's Hospital Doctor prescribed drug overdose of anti-alcoholism drug Antabuse, resulting in permanent brain and nerve damage. Medical
Malpractice $3.7M
verdict
Estate of Fuller v. Mazzaglia 38-year-old female committed suicide after psychiatrist discontinued suicide watch. Medical
Malpractice $2.3M
verdict
Allen v. Bostic
(Forsyth Co. Superior Ct., NC, 1991) Doctor's delay and failure to properrly treat 45-year-old's severely lacerated foot ultimately required amputation of foot three years later. Medical
Malpractice $.6M
settlement


MOTOR VEHICLE INJURY CASES
Another specialty Edwards developed was in motor vehicle accident and injury cases involving tractor-trailers.
Howard v. Collins & Aikman Corp.
(NC Superior Ct., 1990) Suit against trucking company by estate of man killed by company driver, arguing that company acted recklessly in paying drivers by the mile, thereby encouraging unsafe conduct. Truck
Accident $6.5M
verdict
Kim v. Poling & Bacon Construction Co., Inc.
(Wake Co. Superior Ct., NC, 1992) Head-on car-truck collision injured 5 in car, including 7-year-old who suffered fractured skull and massive brain injury Truck
Accident $5.9M
settlement
Casey, et al. v. Fredrickson Motor Exp. Corp.
(Buncombe Co. Superior Ct., NC, 1991) Part-time employee suffered severe brain damage after vehicle collided with defendant's semi-truck. Truck
Accident $4.5M
verdict




As far as the McD's case, it has been blown into the land of myth and legend. The plaintiff was only seeking medical reimbursements and actual damages. The jury and judge went nuts in awarding punitive damages, something the plaintiffs didnt even ask for. The judge wanted to send a message to McD's, not the plaintiffs attorney.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2007 01:54 pm
farmerman wrote:
OCCOM BILL
Quote:
John Edwards made a career out of making innocent people pay for other innocent people's tragedy. One need not be a saint to recognize there is nothing noble in that. There is, in fact, ample cause for scorn.

This is validation that the conservos are scared to death of Edwards. O Bills statement is one that is vaccus and terror filled (He sounds like Limbaugh trying to make a point and it just blows up in his face).
Utter nonsense, Farmerdude. Obama... and even Clinton may get my vote before some of the Republicans in the field. I haven't heard Limbaugh's voice in over a decade, and never did so intentionally. I do my own homework and I've presented the facts as I see them. Notice I referenced the Huffington Post and CNN: Do either sound like Limbaugh clones to you?[/quote]

farmerman wrote:
OB's understandings are simplistic and spoon-fed by newsclips. An attorney IS and dvocate for his client and when he takes on plaintiffs suits, its as if you were to take your own savings and investing it to an outcome that is only dictated by your skills. To declare that "scumbag" shows a complete nonunderstanding of professions. Many of professional people have codes of ethics within which they opearate. Edwards did everything he could in a skillful and honorable fashion. Unlike our present (ugh) occupant of the WHite House.
This is as insulting as it is false. If you had bothered to research Edwards' strategy for the 20+ Law suits against baby Doctors; you would have, and still could, see that I wrote the truth. 20+ innocent doctors accused of callous disregard for human life, humiliated, and forced to pay ridiculous amounts of money... and for what? Oh yeah; nothing. Edwards BS was never, ever good enough for the medical community to come to a consensus... and has since been demonstrated to be utter nonsense. These are the simple FACTS, Farmerman. You owe me an apology.

FreeDuck wrote:
I don't have any comment about Edwards' arguing style as I have nothing to compare it to, but with regard to the Sta-rite case, Wikipedia has this to say:

Quote:
The biggest case of his legal career was a 1997 product liability lawsuit against Sta-Rite, the manufacturer of a defective pool drain cover. The case involved a three-year-old girl[13] who was disemboweled by the suction power of the pool drain pump when she sat on an open pool drain whose protective cover other children at the pool had removed, after the swim club had failed to install the cover properly. Despite 12 prior suits with similar claims, Sta-Rite continued to make and sell drain covers lacking warnings. Sta-Rite protested that an additional warning would have made no difference because the pool owners already knew the importance of keeping the cover secured.


So, this happened 12 times before and the company couldn't see fit to put a sticker on the drain or install any kind of safety measure that would prevent little three year old girls being disemboweled? I think they deserved to pay for that. If the award was excessive, you have the jury to blame for that.
You aren't getting it. 11 times before; the jury came to the correct conclusion that in order for a safety device to be effective; it first needs to be correctly installed and/or not removed. (The helmet sitting in my closet will do me very little good if I crash my bike without it.)

farmerman wrote:
and the judge was empowered to readjust any of the awards up or down, or to not grant PUNITIVE awards. Were punies not awrded in the STa rite case?
Clearly; you haven't even read what I wrote, let alone did any real research, before accusing me of such. Rolling Eyes (Sta-Rite settled after the jury announced $25,000,000, then went back to deliberate additional punitive damages.)

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
OB if you or one of your children or nieces or nephews ever get their guts sucked out of a pool drain or some such thing where you have to suffer the heartbreak of looking at your child or relatives child for the rest of your life and feel the REAL PAIN and the NEVERENDING HEARTBREAK of seeing the quality of their lives destroyed.... I feel certain, and I hope matter of fact, that you'll just run your finger down the yellow pages and get the cheapest attorney you can find.

Obviously a man of your principle will not take any pains to hire the attorney with the track record of getting children and thier families the best settlements possible.

That's his job, and now he's a scumbag for doing it so well. You lose.
A man of my principle would have little choice but to recognize that other kids removed the grate (and not blame them for being kids). A man of my principle doesn't call an attorney when tragedy strikes, unless there is ample cause to believe that gross negligence caused the Problem. There is considerable differences in opinion on breast cancer treatments; so when my mother passed away; I too could have blamed this doctor or that... and hired a scumbag like Edwards to prove it so, or scare them out of a settlement... but that's not the way I fly. It never occured to me to call a lawyer over negligence that didn't clearly exist. If it did in this case; it was the pool installer who failed to properly install the device, or the kids who removed it completely. There is no good reason to go after Sta-Rite... beyond the depth of their pockets.

Your post is another appeal to pity. The Edwards Special. The problem with your pity; is it blinds you to the fact that in all 20+ cases where innocent doctors were raked over the coals for supposedly giving children CP; all 20+ were 100% innocent. Got that? 100% innocent.

Mother Nature selected these innocent children for CP... and your hero, the opportunistic scumbag that he is, selected their equally innocent Doctors for targets, for doing absolutely nothing wrong.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2007 02:01 pm
maybe if you fall off that high horse you can sue it's maker.... because it is surely standing on a shaky foundation..
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2007 02:06 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
You aren't getting it. 11 times before; the jury came to the correct conclusion that in order for a safety device to be effective; it first needs to be correctly installed and/or not removed. (The helmet sitting in my closet will do me very little good if I crash my bike without it.)


I don't know what happened in the 12 previous cases, do you? Perhaps the point is that, this having happened 12 times before, the company might have done more to communicate the importance of installing it correctly/not removing it.

BTW, I know this is your style, but when someone says "you aren't getting it" it implies that the subject of that remark is stupid. I'm not stupid.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2007 02:29 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
You aren't getting it. 11 times before; the jury came to the correct conclusion that in order for a safety device to be effective; it first needs to be correctly installed and/or not removed. (The helmet sitting in my closet will do me very little good if I crash my bike without it.)


I don't know what happened in the 12 previous cases, do you? Perhaps the point is that, this having happened 12 times before, the company might have done more to communicate the importance of installing it correctly/not removing it.

BTW, I know this is your style, but when someone says "you aren't getting it" it implies that the subject of that remark is stupid. I'm not stupid.
I meant to imply no such thing, and actually was about to edit that whole paragraph out as it is sloppy assumptive type work. I can only assume it would have been written, had they lost before... but it is also quite possible that they settled in the past. I apologize for any offense, as there was none intended.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2007 02:35 pm
Ok, fair enough.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2007 02:42 pm
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
maybe if you fall off that high horse you can sue it's maker.... because it is surely standing on a shaky foundation..

20+ innocent doctors, Bear. All persecuted for doing nothing more than their job, the best way they knew how. I too pity the families of these children. I have a friend whose child has control of his ability to smile, and nothing more. Nothing. If he isn't held, 24 hours a day, he will injure himself with involuntary muscle contractions. This will never change. A religious man could blame God. Others will just tack it up to fate. But only a scumbag like Edwards would see it as an opportunity to extort some dough from an innocent doctor. No high horse necessary to see this simple truth.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2007 03:09 pm
So....let me try to get you straight, Bill.

At the time of Edwards running the cerebral palsy cases, medical opinion was about evenly divided about whether poor birthing practice caused it, or whether it was a pre-birth condition?


(From memory, I think it was fairly recently that a very large research project pushed the opinion very clearly to the pre-birth side...but that does not preclude that sometimes poor obstetric practice also results in it...eg cases where fetal distress is not adequately monitored, or acted upon in a timely manner.)


You appear to me to be suggesting that Edwards helped to create the belief that it was poor obstetric practice? Am I right? If so, in whom are you saying he helped to create this belief?


You are then saying that, with medical opinion divided roughly fifty/fifty, Edwards successfully out-argued the opposing case, and his clients got damages?


Is it your contention that, with medical opinion at the time divided, that he ought not to have taken on these cases?
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2007 03:52 pm
dlowan wrote:
You appear to me to be suggesting that Edwards helped to create the belief that it was poor obstetric practice? Am I right? If so, in whom are you saying he helped to create this belief?
Jurors. He sure never convinced additional Doctors of his correctness... but his BS does seem to have had an impact on the chosen procedure... to avoid being sued.

dlowan wrote:
You are then saying that, with medical opinion divided roughly fifty/fifty, Edwards successfully out-argued the opposing case, and his clients got damages?
That is the simple truth. The fact that he was allowed to is a problem with our legal system, as any intelligent person (absent emotion) can clearly see that following the age old method of birthing, along with the consensus of even half of the medical community does not a malpractice suit make.

dlowan wrote:
Is it your contention that, with medical opinion at the time divided, that he ought not to have taken on these cases?
Yes Deb; that is precisely what I'm saying. Approximately every other practicing expert was subject to the scumbag's wrath, if luck of the draw brought them the delivery of a baby with CP. By pretending to channel the dead baby; his appeal to emotion blinded jurors of their common sense (that half the experts agreed with the procedure used, so it was hardly malpractice). This isn't rainmaking. This isn't going after cold hearted bastards for callous decision. This is pure opportunistic scumbaggery...
0 Replies
 
 

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