1
   

The US Economy

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2004 11:36 pm
Here's another important issue for our economy. Greenspan said today that the Asian purchase of American assets will not do them or us any good, and I agree with that assessment. Our ability to keep interest low is going to bite us in the behind when our economy "really" starts to grow, and employment "really" grows at a healthy pace. All those dollars floating around is going to fuel inflation like we've never seen it before in our lifetime. That's my opinion.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2004 10:43 am
From Reuters, "Dollar Hits 2004 Highs on Jobs Outlook
38 minutes ago Add Business - Reuters to My Yahoo!


By Kyle Peterson

CHICAGO (Reuters) - The dollar hit its highest levels this year against the euro, yen and Swiss franc on Wednesday, with gains triggered by rising optimism over U.S. job growth and expectations this would mean higher U.S. interest rates."
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2004 11:11 am
Just saw a news release on tv. "33% of CEO's will hire in the next six months." They don't say how many, but it's a good start. The other 67 percent may end up increasing the unemployment rolls, so we'll need to keep our eyes open for the net effect.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2004 05:45 pm
Here's a little bit of good news.
**********
"The latest reading continues the relative stability of new claims ranging from 339,000 to 368,000 since mid-December, suggesting the pace of layoffs had steadied."

If we can begin to see some growth in jobs, our economy will be well on the way to a good "recovery."
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2004 11:54 pm
Quote:
If we can begin to see some growth in jobs, our economy will be well on the way to a good "recovery."

Some people really seem to have a mental block regarding the term LAGGING INDICATOR.

When we see clear signs of job growth it will mean the recovery has been occurring for some time. ("Lagging" means happens after, see?)
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Mar, 2004 07:27 am
Quote:
====

The above is not from some squishy lefto screed: it's from the latest Fortune magazine.

http://www.fortune.com/fortune/investing/articles/1,15114,593431,00.html
(subscription necessary to read whole article online, I read it in my doctor's office. It's the March 2004 issue)

The remainder of the article talks about the growing realization among conservatives that the depth and apparent unending nature ("to the blue horizon) of this country's deficit is a major economic disaster in the making and that the current administration is completely oblivious.

Arrow I started reading the article The Deficit: America's Credibility Gap because I thought I would hear a conservative spin on it. (Not as big percentagewise as Reagan's, needed tax cuts to stimulate a sagging blah blah, manageable deficits needed due to military necessities,) but yo ho no, Shawn Tully speaks straight. It's the coming lack of foreign confidence in our ability to pay off our deficits that will keep foreign money from buying our debt paper and we need them to buy our debt paper.

So what do think? Is Fortune Magazine and Tully crying Wolf?

Joe
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Mar, 2004 09:33 am
Joe - Does increasing the velocity of the dollar have a positive or negative impact on GNP/the economy?
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Mar, 2004 09:41 am
Finally, someone has asked me a question I cannot answer.

All I know about the velocity of the dollar is that the rate at which my wife spends them on shoes is the only known instance of the speed of light being exceeded.

Should I go find out the answer or will you help me learn, Scrat?

Joe
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Mar, 2004 10:19 am
Joe - The velocity of the dollar is (essentially) the rate at which a given dollar changes hands. (I'm simplifying here, more for myself than for you!) The higher the velocity of the dollar (all other things being equal) the more business is being done in the economy, which of course equals increased growth, more jobs, etc..

The reason I asked the question is because income tax withholding DECREASES the velocity of the dollar. The more money is withheld from people's paychecks, the less they spend. The reverse is, of course, also true.

Now, here's why I brought it up... Our country went from projecting budget surpluses to projecting budget deficits not due to any change in tax policy, but because of a huge, unexpected (for most, at least) downturn in the economy. Government revenue projections based on the assumption that lots of business would be happening had to be modified to project the new reality that very little was occurring for some time.

Into this situation, Bush brought his tax cuts. There is no question that reducing the rate of income taxation would necessitate projections of reduced tax revenues in the short term, but that assumes that the rate of business and the velocity of the dollar remain constant. But they don't, do they? Letting people keep more of their money increases the velocity of the dollar and increases growth in the economy. Increased growth yields increased tax revenues, and then necessitates revisiting our projections of future revenues, deficits, etc..

I'm not going to speculate as to whether growth in the economy over the next several years can or will generate a sufficient rise in tax revenues to completely offset the initial reduction in those revenues caused by the cuts, but I can tell you with absolute certainty, that it is inaccurate and (for many) disingenuous to argue that the tax cuts caused an increase in deficit projections without also acknowledging the fact that the boost to business they generate must result in some reduction thereof.

Anyhow, my apologies if any of this was already obvious to you. There are tons of people who know more about this than I, and you may well be one of them. I just get sick of hearing and reading people putting forth an incomplete, one-sided view based on their personal political bias. We need to see the complete picture if we have any interest in actually making sense of it. (Many here have no such interest.)
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Mar, 2004 10:54 am
Nicely written, scrat. I have to admit I dreamed my way through macro-economics so all of this is only vaguely familiar (or interesting) to me.

I did find this :V = GNP/Mx. obliviously any increase in V raises GNP

But that reduces the discussion to it's simplest form and for some reason backers of the present administration like things to be more complex. From what I see it's as you said, there was a downturn and George Bush brought his tax cuts in to help remedy the situation. (Though he said during his campaign that the cuts would be made simply because the Federal Government was holding on to too much of the people's money. So I guess he was one of the ones surprised.)

There would have been a deficit with or without his tax cuts, I think you are saying, and most economists agree with you, what they don't agree on, and the article in Fortune says as much, is how much the tax cuts increased the deficit and for how long. The implication is that the tax cuts were too deep, they are going to be continued for too long and there have been no reciprocal cuts in spending to offset them. That puts us in a deficit situation for the foreseeable future. Not deficits of one or two hundred billion, but deficits of (I am trying hard here not to exaggerate) five hundred billion upwards to a trillion.
Now the political thing to do would be to stay the course which Mr. Bush has given us every reason for us to believe he will. The right thing would be to remove some of the tax cuts and to find cuts in spending right now, but that was what George Herbert Bush did and see what it got him. He did it too late, and now it's too late for George W.

Joe
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Mar, 2004 12:26 pm
Joe Nation wrote:
There would have been a deficit with or without his tax cuts, I think you are saying, and most economists agree with you, what they don't agree on, and the article in Fortune says as much, is how much the tax cuts increased the deficit and for how long. The implication is that the tax cuts were too deep, they are going to be continued for too long and there have been no reciprocal cuts in spending to offset them. That puts us in a deficit situation for the foreseeable future.

Yes, I think that's a fairly reasonable, balanced, and unbiased way of stating it. My understanding is that the President is now pushing for a series of spending cuts to help offset the tax cuts. This is where we begin to see the conservative and liberal colors of our legislators. (And in some cases find that they aren't what we thought.) Many of those clamoring about the growth of the deficit suddenly throw up their hands in dismay when anyone starts to discuss real cuts in spending.

The real debate (to me) comes down to questions such as: Who has the greatest claim to the money you earn; you, or someone else? Should my wages be confiscated to pay to put a tunnel under Boston? Should yours be taken to pay subsidies to tobacco growers in my state? Would the whole country be better off if the government took less and attempted to do less?

What the real debate is not about (to me) is "rich" VS "poor", "business" VS "people", etc.. I consider these nothing more than nonsense issues thrown up in place of actual debate by people who either haven't bothered to educate themselves about the real issues and tradeoffs we're trying to deal with or who actually do understand the issues and tradeoffs but prefer to pretend they don't for political reasons.

Thanks for the compliment and the courteous exchange! It's nice to see that there's some overlap in our viewpoints on this, even if we don't agree on everything. Cool
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Mar, 2004 02:02 pm
Just released by Reuters.
*******

U.S. Job Growth Anemic in February
2 hours, 35 minutes ago Add Business - Reuters to My Yahoo!


By Tim Ahmann

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. economy added a paltry 21,000 jobs last month, according to a surprisingly weak government report on Friday that turned up the heat on President Bush (news - web sites) as he seeks re-election.

The Labor Department (news - web sites) report was the latest to dash hopes that employment was following the rest of the economy higher, leaving some economists to warn that robust hiring may still be some way off.


"The job market is stuck in a cycle of inertia," said John Challenger, head of the outplacement firm Challenger, Gray & Christmas. "The fact is, we are going to have to get used to slow job creation in this country."
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Mar, 2004 11:27 am
The Unrecognizable Recovery
March 8, 2004
By BOB HERBERT

The Bush crowd couldn't have been more pleased with the
timing of the Martha Stewart verdict on Friday afternoon.

The big news heading into the weekend was almost guaranteed
to be the awful jobs report released by the Labor
Department Friday morning. The White House needed a
world-class distraction and the Stewart jury, eager to wrap
things up before the weekend, obliged. It strolled in, as
if on cue, with a verdict of guilty on all counts.
Distractions don't get much bigger.

The Labor Department report was as grim as faces on a bread
line. Despite all the president's promises, the economy
added just 21,000 jobs last month. No jobs were added by
the private sector. The 21,000 additional jobs were all
government hires.

The report also showed that job growth in December and
January was worse than previously believed. The January
tally was revised from 112,000 to 97,000. The December
count dropped from 16,000 to a pathetic 8,000.

A number of demographic groups are getting absolutely
hammered. A new study by Andrew Sum, director of the Center
for Labor Market Studies at Northeastern University, found
historic lows in the reported labor force participation of
16- to 19-year-olds. According to the study, "The estimated
36.8 percent employment rate for the nation's teens was the
lowest ever recorded since 1948."

A more ominous finding was that over the past three
calendar years the number of people aged 16 to 24 who are
both out of work and out of school increased from 4.8
million to 5.6 million, with males accounting for the bulk
of the increase.

The Economic Policy Institute and the National Employment
Law Project, in a joint analysis of newly released data,
reported a disturbing increase in long-term joblessness.
Unemployment lasting half a year or longer grew to 22.1
percent of all unemployment in 2003. That was an increase
from 18.3 percent in 2002, and the highest rate since 1983.


Among those having a particularly hard time finding work,
according to the report, are job seekers with college
degrees and people 45 and older.

"The new data," said Sylvia Allegretto, one of the authors
of the report, "show us an economy that is just not
generating enough high-quality jobs to get highly educated
and highly experienced workers back to work."

The nation is in an employment crisis and the end is not in
sight. The Bush administration has no plan, other than a
continued ludicrous reliance on additional tax cuts. The
White House continued to say on Friday that making the
president's tax cuts permanent would be an important step
toward solving the employment problem.

What is happening in some sectors of the black community is
catastrophic. The Community Service Society studied
employment conditions among black men in New York City.
Using the employment-population ratio, which is the
proportion of the working-age population with a job, it
found - incredibly - that nearly one of every two black men
between the ages of 16 and 64 was not working last year.

In the current environment, even apparent good news can
have its troubling aspects. An article in The Wall Street
Journal a couple weeks ago indicated that Latino workers
have been doing well, taking a "disproportionate share" of
new jobs, especially in the construction and service
sectors, since the economy began its recovery.

The article referred to a demand for young, male Latino
workers.

It then went on to say: "Typical of them is Jorge Alberto,
a 22-year-old Guatemalan, who doesn't speak English, didn't
complete high school and had never held a job - until he
slipped across the border into California from Mexico last
year. In Los Angeles, `I found a job almost immediately,'
he says, pushing a cart through the muddy lot where he and
five other Hispanic men are laying the foundation for a
house."

Workers are facing these bleak employment conditions in a
so-called recovery. What happens if we slip into another
recession?

A favorite metaphor associated with an expanding U.S.
economy is "A rising tide lifts all boats."

Right now, a lot of the boats have leaks, and they are
taking on water fast.


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/08/opinion/08HERB.html?ex=1079754587&ei=1&en=40681e37a97d3d77

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Mar, 2004 11:27 am
The Unrecognizable Recovery
March 8, 2004
By BOB HERBERT

The Bush crowd couldn't have been more pleased with the
timing of the Martha Stewart verdict on Friday afternoon.

The big news heading into the weekend was almost guaranteed
to be the awful jobs report released by the Labor
Department Friday morning. The White House needed a
world-class distraction and the Stewart jury, eager to wrap
things up before the weekend, obliged. It strolled in, as
if on cue, with a verdict of guilty on all counts.
Distractions don't get much bigger.

The Labor Department report was as grim as faces on a bread
line. Despite all the president's promises, the economy
added just 21,000 jobs last month. No jobs were added by
the private sector. The 21,000 additional jobs were all
government hires.

The report also showed that job growth in December and
January was worse than previously believed. The January
tally was revised from 112,000 to 97,000. The December
count dropped from 16,000 to a pathetic 8,000.

A number of demographic groups are getting absolutely
hammered. A new study by Andrew Sum, director of the Center
for Labor Market Studies at Northeastern University, found
historic lows in the reported labor force participation of
16- to 19-year-olds. According to the study, "The estimated
36.8 percent employment rate for the nation's teens was the
lowest ever recorded since 1948."

A more ominous finding was that over the past three
calendar years the number of people aged 16 to 24 who are
both out of work and out of school increased from 4.8
million to 5.6 million, with males accounting for the bulk
of the increase.

The Economic Policy Institute and the National Employment
Law Project, in a joint analysis of newly released data,
reported a disturbing increase in long-term joblessness.
Unemployment lasting half a year or longer grew to 22.1
percent of all unemployment in 2003. That was an increase
from 18.3 percent in 2002, and the highest rate since 1983.


Among those having a particularly hard time finding work,
according to the report, are job seekers with college
degrees and people 45 and older.

"The new data," said Sylvia Allegretto, one of the authors
of the report, "show us an economy that is just not
generating enough high-quality jobs to get highly educated
and highly experienced workers back to work."

The nation is in an employment crisis and the end is not in
sight. The Bush administration has no plan, other than a
continued ludicrous reliance on additional tax cuts. The
White House continued to say on Friday that making the
president's tax cuts permanent would be an important step
toward solving the employment problem.

What is happening in some sectors of the black community is
catastrophic. The Community Service Society studied
employment conditions among black men in New York City.
Using the employment-population ratio, which is the
proportion of the working-age population with a job, it
found - incredibly - that nearly one of every two black men
between the ages of 16 and 64 was not working last year.

In the current environment, even apparent good news can
have its troubling aspects. An article in The Wall Street
Journal a couple weeks ago indicated that Latino workers
have been doing well, taking a "disproportionate share" of
new jobs, especially in the construction and service
sectors, since the economy began its recovery.

The article referred to a demand for young, male Latino
workers.

It then went on to say: "Typical of them is Jorge Alberto,
a 22-year-old Guatemalan, who doesn't speak English, didn't
complete high school and had never held a job - until he
slipped across the border into California from Mexico last
year. In Los Angeles, `I found a job almost immediately,'
he says, pushing a cart through the muddy lot where he and
five other Hispanic men are laying the foundation for a
house."

Workers are facing these bleak employment conditions in a
so-called recovery. What happens if we slip into another
recession?

A favorite metaphor associated with an expanding U.S.
economy is "A rising tide lifts all boats."

Right now, a lot of the boats have leaks, and they are
taking on water fast.


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/08/opinion/08HERB.html?ex=1079754587&ei=1&en=40681e37a97d3d77

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Mar, 2004 11:16 pm
Some of the top economists still aren't in agreement about the "bubble," but I agree with the following. I posted something to this effect a few days ago.
**************************

Time to jack up interest rates?

An influential economist says the Fed should move now to avoid another bubble; others say hold on.
March 9, 2004: 11:08 AM EST
By Mark Gongloff, CNN/Money staff writer



NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Let's see: the job market's still sluggish, wage growth is slowing and inflation is all but dead, despite the lowest short-term interest rates in more than 40 years -- so what should the Fed do next?

Jack up interest rates, according to one of Wall Street's most respected economists.


Morgan Stanley chief economist Stephen Roach, long among the most bearish observers of the U.S. economy, on Monday reiterated a recent plea to Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan that he made last month: raise short-term rates. Now. By a lot.

"Based on the Federal Reserve's own assessment of recent and prospective vigor of U.S. economic growth, it is now time to reload the monetary cannon," Roach wrote in a note to clients posted on the Morgan Stanley Web site.

"A failure to do so ... is a recipe for a never-ending outbreak of asset bubbles. Largely for that reason, I have urged the Fed to raise the federal funds rate immediately to 3 percent."
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Mar, 2004 11:19 pm
BTW, even though the market indeces are down for the month; DOW V127, Nasdaq V35, our total funds are up, because bond prices are up.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 09:00 pm
Here's the story on "lagging jobs."
****************************
No More Excuses on Jobs
March 12, 2004
By PAUL KRUGMAN

As job growth continues to elude the U.S. economy, we're
hearing two main excuses from the Bush administration and
its supporters: that the real situation is much better than
you're hearing, and that to the extent employment is
lagging, it's the result of factors outside the
administration's control. But after three years of
extravagant promises and dismal results, the time for
excuses has passed.

Let's start with the real job situation. A number of
readers have asked me about what Marc Racicot, who heads
the Bush re-election effort, told Don Imus the other day.
He claimed that those miserable job numbers are misleading,
and that another survey presents both a more accurate and a
much happier story. You can find the same claim all over
the right-wing media. But it just isn't so.

It's true that there are two employment surveys, which have
been diverging lately. The establishment survey, which asks
businesses how many workers they employ, says that 2.4
million jobs have vanished in the last three years. The
household survey, which asks individuals whether they have
jobs, says that employment has actually risen by 450,000.
The administration's supporters, understandably, prefer the
second number.

But the experts disagree. According to Alan Greenspan: "I
wish I could say the household survey were the more
accurate. Everything we've looked at suggests that it's the
payroll data which are the series which you have to
follow." You may have heard that the establishment survey
doesn't count jobs created by new businesses; not so. The
bureau knows what it's doing - conservative commentators
are raising objections only because they don't like the
facts.

And even the less reliable household survey paints a bleak
picture of an economy in which jobs have lagged far behind
population growth. The fraction of adults who say they are
employed fell steeply between early 2001 and the summer of
2003, and has stagnated since then.

But wait - hasn't the unemployment rate fallen since last
summer? Yes, but that's entirely the result of people
dropping out of the labor force. Even if you're out of
work, you're not counted as unemployed unless you're
actively looking for a job.

We don't know why so many people have stopped looking for
jobs, but it probably has something to do with the fact
that jobs are so hard to find: 40 percent of the unemployed
have been out of work more than 15 weeks, a 20-year record.
In any case, the administration should feel grateful that
so many people have dropped out. As the Economic Policy
Institute points out, if they hadn't dropped out, the
official unemployment rate would be an eye-popping 7.4
percent, not a politically spinnable 5.6 percent.

In short, things aren't as bad as they seem; they're worse.
But should we blame the Bush administration? Yes - because
it refuses to learn from experience.

Franklin Roosevelt, in his efforts to combat economic woes,
was famously willing to try anything until he found
something that worked. George Bush, by contrast, seems
determined to try the same thing, over and over again.

In 2001 the administration rammed through long-term tax
cuts, heavily tilted toward the affluent. But employment
didn't turn around, and by late 2002 many economists -
including supporters of the original tax cut - were urging
it to try something different. My own piece, "My Economic
Plan," was fairly typical: I called for extended
unemployment benefits, temporary aid to state and local
governments, and rebates for low- and middle-income
workers.

Maybe this more or less textbook response to a depressed
economy wouldn't have worked. But we'll never know, because
the administration rejected all such proposals. Instead, it
went for a clone of the 2001 tax cut - another big break
mainly for those at the top. And once again this failed to
deliver the promised jobs.

Meanwhile, Mr. Bush has mortgaged the nation's future. If
all of his tax cuts are made permanent, they'll reduce
revenue by at least three times the amount that would be
needed to secure Social Security benefits at current levels
for the next 75 years.

No sensible person blames Mr. Bush for the onset of the
recession in 2001. But he does deserve blame for the fact
that all he has to show for three years of supposed
job-creation policies is a mountain of debt.

E-mail: [email protected]


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/12/opinion/12KRUG.html?ex=1080095258&ei=1&en=ae7c87f1c69312b8
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2004 05:31 pm
THE U.S. ECONOMY
i believe it is difficult to look at the u.s. economy (and also the canadian economy) in isolation . they are both part of the world-economy and as i think has been pointed out before, there are major changes (and some of them will be mighty unpleasant) ahead of us. an article in today's TORONTO STAR caught my attention. i think the writer has summed up what lies ahead for the economies of both the u.s. and canada and also europe. will our governments be able to help its citizens to adjust quickly enough to maintain a world leading position ? i certainly don't know and don't want to guess either. to me, one thing is for sure : adjust we must, and the quicker, the better. you can find the article here >>>EDUCATION, NOT LOCATION, KEY TO NATION'S WEALTH
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Mar, 2004 08:10 pm
http://www.pollingreport.com/images/comfort.GIF
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Mar, 2004 08:18 pm
nimh, If you were to interpret this graph, what is your opinion concerning the near term of the economy?
0 Replies
 
 

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