The US Economy

Having lived in both areas, Italgato, I gotta disagree with ya there ... the Bay Area has some great scenery, yeah, but so does Southern Wisconsin ... Horicon Marsh, Kettle Morraine, the Mississippi Bluffs, the non-urban Lake Michigan shore, though all in all, I really prefer Northern Wisconsin, anyway ... even if the bridges in Wisconsin aren't as spectacular as those around The Bay Area. And real estate here is much more reasonable

I think it's the damnedest choice: finding an article in a magazine which sells investment which says investment is getting better! Scrat: there is a big variety of independent opinion out there (no two economists or analysts agree!). I hope you'll try to find sources which are less tied to the markets.

Tartarin , that's sorta like suggesting one look for commentary on gardening in the automotive press.

Nor do you seem to desire a continued downturn as do some.

Maybe it's about judging the market as part of the larger picture, not from the market's self-assessment! You guys! You know better!

I believe I am looking at the larger picture, and I also think I am looking at it without a political bias. I do have a bias of wishful thinking, there's no denying that, but I've looked at positive and negative reports and come away convinced the economy is on the mend. Perhaps you have looked at everything I have and come away with a different opinion. That does not mean I have not looked as well.

And perhaps these headlines smack a bit less of the market telling us that the market is in good health...

EU Ministers to Tout Economic Recovery <- Link

EU sees U.S. leading global economic recovery <- Link

(These are both basically the same story, but I thought it might be useful to offer an AP (US) source and a REUTERS (EU) source for the information to rule out any claims of spin or bias.)

Isn't that all interesting! I seem to be the lone ranger here; my opinion differs from all the experts. Oh, well, it's been that way for a couple years now.

The abstract economy (numbers) is becoming increasingly disassociated from the functional economy (sustaining people). The numbers may look better in 2004 but it is increasingly unlikely that people will be doing any better (at least in the US economy). There are a number of reasons for this, the globalization of labor, technology, the structural change in the use of labor (part time work, deunionization, increased efficiencies) We are in a period similar to 1890-1910 when the nature of work and the economy changed dramatically and while owners of capital and certain kinds of highly skilled labor may do well, the majority of the population will not.

ACQ - If you cherry pick your examples, you can sustain your argument indefinitely. I personally am doing better than I was a year ago, as are lots of people. Others are no better off today than then, and still others are worse off today. The argument that the numbers that we use to measure our economy do not measure our economy seems a stretch to me, but I suppose it's possible that some definitions need to be reworked.

In the end, I remain convinced that--for the most part--there are two types of people who are negative on our economy today; those who are personally doing badly and liberals who hope for the worst out of their irrational hatred of GW Bush.

And then there are people like me that would love nothing better than have our economy and the world's improve. We still own 35 percent in equities, and the improvement in our economy will definitely be to our benefit too!

Scrat -- It has nothing to do with politics! It's like my (Republican) financial advisor said, Don't read that stuff: they're just trying to sell you the market. So-o-o--o, you guys go right ahead!

And Scrat, you always dramatize dissent: "irrational hatred of Bush." Many of us don't trust Bush and for very, very good reasons. He lies; he defrauds. You are creating your own worst punishment (particularly if you're looking for economic success) if you continue to support the guy. Hey, I don't care. Go ahead.

The hell you say, Tartarin You care so much you see little else of equal importance to removing Bush and furthering the opposition agenda in all respects, by my reading of your socio-political arguments. Not that that's bad, to paraphrase Jerry Seinfeldt, some of my best freinds are liberals

Back to the commentary on discrimination against the Chinese, I've noticed a distinct pecking order when it comes to the asian population. C.I., correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that the Japanese consider themselves the top of the heap. They look down on the Chinese, who in turn look down at the Koreans, who themselves look down at the Vietnamese, who appear to be sort of at the bottom of the caste.

I never even noticed this phenomenon until a good friend married a (mainland) Chinese woman and she kind of explained it to us.

The Vietnamese ain't particularly fond of the Thais, Cambodians or Laotions either ... and the sentiment is enthusiastically reciprocated.

Timber, sounds like a good excuse for a soccer tournament, eh?

cjh, I don't know if you're arriving at that conclusion from anectodal information, but it's wrong. I think the people of Japan may think that way, but not Japanese Americans - especially those of us that have roots in this country. My father came to this country in 1893. If I remember my history correctly, the first Japanese in California married a black woman. Before WWII and even a few years after, although we lived in a neighborhood in Sacramento with 95 percent minorities, the Japanese and Chinese did not socialize. Today, many of our children are married to all different cultures and races including black, Chinese, English, Italian, German, Polynesian, Hispanic, and probably others that I don't know about. My older brother's two children are married to Chinese as are my wife's three nieces. If there's any discrimination on the part of Japanese Americans, I'm not aware of them. One of my longest and dearest friend was born in Shanghai, and came to the US when his parents sent him to the US in the late forties for his college education. All his children call me uncle, and my children the same of my friend. Unfortunately, George, passed away last September after a 44 year friendship. I have Chinese friends in Singapore, two famlies. You're seeing something I'm not familiar with.

Perhaps is is more pervasive with first generation immigrants. I don't know though, even at my office, the cliques tend to run straight down the racial and homeland line.

I know the Okinawans (Uchinaa) get pooped on by everyone. I go there for two weeks each summer to train, and have heard nothing but bad things. Japanese citizens, but "less than Japanese" per the government.Able to have things confiscated by the US forces at will thanks to SOFA. Few jobs, little economic prosperity, few of their children able to get into universities other than the one on Okinawa, which is not on the level of Todai or Takudai, etc...