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The US Economy

 
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2003 02:38 pm
c.i., IBM announced plans a few weeks ago to add up to 10,000 new jobs, most in the US, over the next year. That was mention on this thread a while back, if I recall.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2003 02:43 pm
Thanks, timber, forgot about the previous 'mention.'
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2003 02:47 pm
IBM didn't announce that, timber, but IBM's chairman, Samuel J. Palmisano, says he foresees the need in 2004 "for approximately 10,000 new positions in key skill areas."

Where are the jobs?

(Actually, IBM announced cutting 200 jobs yesterday.)
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2003 03:09 pm
Scrat wrote:
This "tax cuts for the rich" nonsense, is just that, and way below you.

It is possible, of course, that you have overestimated my integrity, my intelligence, or both. If so, I apologize for failing to meet your high standards.

It is also possible, and I think more likely, that you and I mean different things by the words "tax cuts". The Bush administration has cut several kinds of taxes. One big part of that was the income tax, where the cuts were reasonably well balanced throughout the income distribution.

The rest were cuts or abolishments of other taxes (capital gains, estate, inheritance ....) which benefitted the top few percent of the income distribution almost exclusively. That's because most estates and inheritances were already covered by generous tax-exemptions up to the upper middle class. Moreover, the middle class has almost all its stocks and bonds in tax-exempt acounts such as 401Ks, so can't benefit from an abolishment of the capital gains tax.

My understanding is that the whole package of tax cuts is still heavily tilted towards the very affluent. If you look at the total, the top five percent of the income distribution get a share of the tax cut that's out of proportion to their share of the taxes. It's just not the income tax cut that makes it so.

From your post, I get the impression that you are talking about the cuts in the income tax. I agree with everything you said about that part as far as it goes. Now let me ask you this: Are you saying that the tax cuts are still balanced when you look at the whole of all tax cuts? Or do you believe that the non-income taxes somehow don't count when assessing how balanced the total tax cuts are?

I doubt that you and I will ever agree on the Bush tax cuts, but at least we ought to understand what we're disagreeing about.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Nov, 2003 01:29 pm
Thomas wrote:
Scrat wrote:
This "tax cuts for the rich" nonsense, is just that, and way below you.

It is possible, of course, that you have overestimated my integrity, my intelligence, or both. If so, I apologize for failing to meet your high standards.

It is also possible, and I think more likely, that you and I mean different things by the words "tax cuts". The Bush administration has cut several kinds of taxes. One big part of that was the income tax, where the cuts were reasonably well balanced throughout the income distribution.

Nice surprise that we agree on this.

Thomas wrote:
The rest were cuts or abolishments of other taxes (capital gains, estate, inheritance ....) which benefitted the top few percent of the income distribution almost exclusively.

Only if you assume that there is no benefit to the economy, to jobs creation, to the money supply, to innovation, etc. from lowering the rates of confiscation of capital to those who benefited from these cuts.

But you are right that I was focusing on income tax cuts alone, and so didn't see your point of view clearly. Now that I do, I still think you are missing a big part of the picture and I still dislike your classist rhetoric, but I am open to the possibility that you have formed different opinions for reasons other than a lack of integrity or some mental defect. :wink:
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Nov, 2003 03:29 pm
Now, there's a http://www.hallmark.com/Website/Images/Site/Homepage/hallmark_logo.gifMoment.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Nov, 2003 04:05 pm
Not so happy news:Sprint cutting jobs
quote]Sprint To Cut 2,000 Jobs
By Susan Rush
November 24, 2003
news@2 direct

Making good on an earlier promise to cut costs as it refocuses its business into two segments -- business and consumer -- Sprint plans to let 2,000 workers go during the fourth quarter.

The cuts will be sprinkled across the company, including the business and consumer wireless and wireline groups, the local telephone operation, technology services and corporate staff support groups. Affected employees' severance packages will include two weeks pay and benefits for each full year of service, up to a maximum of 52 weeks, Sprint says. The downsized workers also will receive a minimum of 60 days' pay after they are notified of their layoff and outplacement assistance.

Until its reorganization plan was unveiled, Sprint segmented its business into wireless vs. wireline and local vs. long distance. The goal of the company now is to refocus its efforts on business and consumer, rather than specific services. The first step in reorganizing the company came in the form of bundled services that included local, long-distance and wireless calling features for its consumer market base. Then Sprint rolled out a bundled package of local and long-distance services for the business sector. In early September, Sprint named its PCS Division President Len Lauer president and COO of the entire company.

In conjunction with the new business plan, Sprint unveiled a plan to reduce operating expenses by 5 percent to 7 percent. To accomplish this goal, Sprint said it planned to consolidate systems to eliminate redundancies, increase automation and redesign and streamline its overall organization. The 2,000 cuts will bring the company closer to reaching its goal.

The cuts are in addition to previously announced plans to outsource activities in the company's IT organization.
[/quote]
Note to the conservatives, I am not smiling as I post this.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Nov, 2003 07:34 pm
As a long term holder of both FON and PCS, I figure it shoulda been done over a year ago. I happen also to own SBC, VZN, and T ... telecoms in general have been miserable performers for a good long while. Look for continued consolidation, cost-cutting, and earnings disappointments from the sector in the near to mid term. They're gonna lag behind a while longer yet, I'm afraid. Among other considerations are recent infrastructure expansion which has resulted in capacity, especially in Wireless, far beyond that needed to accommodate existing and reasonable future demand, encouraging cut-throat, profit-slashing competition among some very big fish in a pond that isn't getting any bigger. The Wireline segment is under considerable pressure both from Wireless and from Broadband, too, which helps it not a bit.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Nov, 2003 08:04 pm
What has been a long-term question for me is how all those competing wireless companies continues to survive with all those retail operations everywhere you turn, and all those ads in the media. That's gotta be pretty costly. I think timber has it right when he says we should be looking for cost-cutting and consolidation in this industry.
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Nov, 2003 08:26 pm
Tidbit on a financial report tonight: Dell has decided to pull its tech support service back to the US after complaints from customers about the service set-up in Bangladesh.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Nov, 2003 08:46 pm
Wondering about the political implications of the below as well ... how will these divergences play out at the elections? The Pacific states are doing badly, but they were going to go to the Democrat anyway, I would guess ... whereas a swing state like Penn. wont, judging on these numbers, perhaps buy the "save the economy from Bush" argument so easily ...

In any case, the overall job losses mentioned for these past years are astounding.

Quote:
Rust Belt makes a comeback - study
Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Newark add jobs; West Coast cities lose


By G. Scott Thomas
PITTSBURGH BUSINESS TIMES

What a difference five years make. Just ask people in San Jose. Or San Francisco. Or Seattle. Or Portland, Ore. Those were prosperous places in the late 1990s, when the Pacific Coast’s economy was expanding more rapidly than the national economy as a whole.
BUT NOT NOW.
San Jose, San Francisco, Seattle and Portland are no longer boom towns, having lost a total of 178,000 jobs during the past five years. Rust Belt metros such as Buffalo, Newark and Pittsburgh, despite all of their problems, seem robust by comparison, having added jobs over the same span. [..]
The decline along the Pacific rim has been as dramatic as it once was unthinkable, as shown by an American City Business Journals analysis of employment trends in the nation’s 100 largest labor markets:
San Jose has ranked dead last in U.S. job growth each of the past three years. Silicon Valley was rocked by the sudden collapse of the information technology sector in 2000, and the entire San Jose area has been struggling ever since. It had 96,000 fewer jobs in the third quarter of 2003 than in same quarter of 1998, a decline of 10 percent.
San Francisco also was buffeted by the IT downturn. It was floating high in 2000, ranking ninth of 100 markets in terms of job growth. Then the bubble burst, and San Francisco plummeted to 99th place a year later. Its losses in the past five years: 50,000 jobs, or 4.9 percent.
Seattle has watched 14,000 jobs slip away since 1998, a drop of 1 percent. [..] Portland lost about a quarter of its high-tech manufacturing jobs in the past three years alone. Its decline for the entire five-year period was 18,000 jobs, or 1.9 percent.
Employment numbers, to be sure, are also depressed in many Eastern and Midwestern metros. The three Rust Belt metros mentioned above — Buffalo, Newark and Pittsburgh — added just 62,000 jobs since 1998, yielding a collective growth rate of 2.4 percent over five years.
That may be uninspiring, but it’s still dramatically better than what’s happening along the Pacific coast. Portland, San Francisco, San Jose and Seattle, taken as a group, lost 4.2 percent of their jobs during the past half decade.
Over the decade, Pittsburgh job count grew from 1,032,200 in 1993 to 1,109,300 in 2003. During the first half of the decade, the city’s job growth of between 0.5 percent and 1.4 percent was anemic when compared to the rest of the nation, with the city ranking in the 80s out of the top 100 metros for annual job growth each of those years.
But from 1998 through 2002, Pittsburgh held its own, ranking 59, 77, 32 and 49 in job growth, despite never having a year with better than 2 percent growth. In fact, barely discernible growth of 0.3 percent placed the Pittsburgh 32nd among the top 100 metros for the 2000-2001 period. As an indication of how poorly the economy was creating jobs over the past two years, 56 metros lost jobs in the 2002-2003 period, with Pittsburgh losing 1.4 percent of its employment. Pittsburgh also posted job losses for 2001-2002 of 0.8 percent. The region lost almost 25,000 jobs from its recent high of 1,134,100 jobs in 2001 to 2003.
For comparison, the Cleveland metro ranked between 47th and 89th between 1993 and 1998 and ranked between 75 and 94th from 1998 through 2003. Cleveland posted job losses the past three years of 2.3, 2.5 and 1 percent.
Again, San Jose, once the beacon for everything that was seemingly going right in the U.S. economy, offers the bleakest perspective. San Jose employment peaked in 2000 at 1,043,700. Three years later, the metro had 862,400 jobs, a loss of a whopping 17.4 percent of its work force.
Nearly three-quarters of the nation’s 100 largest markets — 73, to be exact — have more jobs now than in 1998, despite the recent recession. Leading the pack are Las Vegas and Riverside-San Bernardino, Calif., two Western metros that successfully bucked the negative trend in their region. Despite recent losses, Pittsburgh has gained 17,200 jobs over the past five years.
Over the decade, across metros, the hardest hit was the manufacturing sector. For example, while the Pittsburgh metro had a net gain of 77,100 jobs between 1993 and 2003, it lost almost 9,000 manufacturing jobs during this period. The city gained 9,000 manufacturing jobs from 1993 to 2000 before losing 17,800 jobs since.
But those trends were occurring across the country. For example, Pittsburgh lost 5.7 percent of its manufacturing employment between 2000 and 2001, but 57 of the 100 largest metros fared worse. In 2001-2002, Pittsburgh lost another 5.5 percent of its manufacturing work force and did better than 71 competing metros. Last year’s 3.5 percent job loss in the sector ranked Pittsburgh 52nd.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Nov, 2003 08:01 am
Hey, c.i. , remember This?

Well, guess what Mr. Green


Quote:
Reuters:Economy Surged in 3rd Quarter, Profits Up

Tue November 25, 2003 08:34 AM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Robust business and consumer spending powered the U.S. economy ahead at an even brisker clip in the third quarter than first thought, the government said on Tuesday in a report that showed corporate profits growing at the fastest rate in more than a decade.
Gross domestic product, or GDP, shot up at an 8.2 percent annual rate, more than double the second quarter's 3.3 percent gain and the strongest quarterly advance in 19-1/2 years. A month ago, the Commerce Department said GDP advanced at a 7.2 percent rate. Its revision surpassed Wall Street economists' forecasts for a 7.8 percent gain.
The report showed the long-awaited revival in corporate investment may have taken hold, with nonresidential business spending surging at a 14 percent annual rate, double the second quarter's 7.3 percent and ahead of the initially reported third-quarter rise of 11.1 percent.


The department sharply revised its estimate of inventory reductions, saying stocks of unsold goods had fallen by $14.1 billion in the quarter instead of $35.8 billion it originally reported.

Consumer spending, bolstered by tax cuts, grew at a revised 6.4 percent annual pace in the third quarter, lower than the 6.6 percent pace estimated a month ago but well ahead of the second quarter's 3.8 percent growth rate. Most forecasters say the third-quarter jump in GDP is unlikely to be matched in coming quarters as the impact of tax reductions wears off. Many forecasters see growth more likely in the 4 percent range.

Corporate profits after taxes climbed at a 10.6 percent annual rate during the quarter, a sharp change from the second quarter's 5 percent contraction. Commerce said it was the strongest pickup in profits since a 12.4 percent jump in the fourth quarter of 1992. Fed officials have said that firmer corporate profits are vital to a sustained expansion, not only because they bolster confidence but also because they provide the means and incentive for companies to hire new workers and add to production capacity.

Commerce will issue a final estimate of the quarterly growth data next month.

© Reuters 2003. All Rights Reserved.


Yup. Interesting.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Nov, 2003 11:07 am
timber, No doubt they are good reports. I sure would like to see that translate into more jobs and better p/e ratio performance. Even with these good reports, most financial pundits are cautious about job growth. I am too. We still have over two million unemployed, and over 44 million withouth health insurance. When we see improvements in those areas, we can all rejoice.
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Nov, 2003 11:16 am
CI -- I'm following your posts on this because (speaking as an investor) I think you're looking at the right indicators. To dismiss unemployment and inequities is to narrow one's vision considerably -- an economy may "bounce" on Timber's numbers but solid growth depends on solid and reasonable expectations in all sectors of the country.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Nov, 2003 11:30 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
What has been a long-term question for me is how all those competing wireless companies continues to survive with all those retail operations everywhere you turn, and all those ads in the media. That's gotta be pretty costly. I think timber has it right when he says we should be looking for cost-cutting and consolidation in this industry.

Yes, wireless was one of those industries that was growing at breakneck speed a few years back. Sadly, many people assumed (as people often do) that the growth would just keep going. Silly, that.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Nov, 2003 11:34 am
timber, Another thought. Those 10.6 percent profit increase doesn't mean much without knowing what that 10 percent represents. If the profit was .02c per share, a ten percent increase has very little meaning. Nay, a 50 percent increase has very little meaning.
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Nov, 2003 11:48 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
What has been a long-term question for me is how all those competing wireless companies continues to survive with all those retail operations everywhere you turn, and all those ads in the media. That's gotta be pretty costly. I think timber has it right when he says we should be looking for cost-cutting and consolidation in this industry.


They survive because the wireless companies don't own or run those retail outets. The wirless companies sell franchise rights to the vendor and the vendor is just reselling their services. The only cost to the wirless company is the cost of promotional materials given to the franchise holder. Those people selling wireless from a kiosk at the mall aren't Verizon, Sprint, etc.. employees.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Nov, 2003 11:50 am
c. i. wrote:
If the profit was .02c per share, a ten percent increase has very little meaning

That would be a valid point if not for the fact that a few-cents-per-share earnings increase accross hundreds of millions of shares works out to scores of billions of dollars of earnings increase. What has increasingly little meaning is arguing that dynamic, sustainable, policy-driven economic expansion is anything other than clearly indicated.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Nov, 2003 11:59 am
fishin' wrote:
,,,those people selling wireless from a kiosk at the mall aren't Verizon, Sprint, etc.. employees.

An observation of merit, if widely unrecognized. The supermarket clerk ringing up your box of cornflakes isn't an employee of Kellogs ... the same applies to cellphones, automobiles, sunglasses, appliances, and just about everything else involving direct retail transactions.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Nov, 2003 12:04 pm
From the AFP Report: "



The dearth of jobs remains the biggest hole in the American economy, with the unemployment rate at 6.0 percent in October, analysts say.

"Key to the recovery will be return of employment growth," said Moody's Investors Service chief US economist John Lonski.

"Once that becomes unambiguous, then you should realize gains by consumer spending that will extend this latest recovery by business investment," Lonski said."

I'm waiting and watching.
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