Iselin, New Jersey

Thanks for the list, blatham! What does the asterisk in front of some cars mean?

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blatham wrote:

Well, lots of wonderful pre-owned autos out there too. Lola's previous car was a C Series AMG with the 5.5 litre engine. Damned fast piece of machinery.

Wow, respect.

I won't tell Friends of the Earth.

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jespah wrote:

NJ Motor Vehicle insurance requirements: http://www.state.nj.us/mvc/Vehicle/InsuranceRequirements.htm

NJ is a no-fault state; you must be insured if you want to drive there.

I see. Thanks!

georgeob1 wrote:

Used, out of warranty, MBs & BMWs are very expensive to maintain and command a fairly high price on the market. You may find you get more for your money with something else.

Maintenance costs! There's one I hadn't thought about. What's a high maintenance cost in America?

Rockhead wrote:

Thomas, I admittedly came in late. How long are you staying, and have you considered a lease until you have your feet under you?

I'm staying indefinitely. Perhaps three years to start with, and then I'll decide if I want to pursue US citizenship or not. The advantage of a lease is that it avoids the large one-time cost. The advantage of a well-maintained used car, in turn, is that new cars tend to lose an incredible amount of sales value in their first few years, way above their loss of use value. Buying a used car spares you this loss. Ideally, then, I'd like to lease a used car. But I haven't seen any offerings for this.

I do have feet under me financially. Over the last 7 years, my engineering job has been very good to me in this regard. Meanwhile, I continued to live in my graduate student studio, my most expensive indulgences being a trip to America every half year and obscene amounts of books. That left enough on my savings account that buying a good used car is not a problem.

blatham wrote:

I don't buy a car without refering to Consumer Reports (at least). They've built up a huge data base over the years and you can get good probability and pricing data from them.

This sounds like a very good idea. How would you weigh it against Car Fax reports? For example, if a car was made in a bad year as rated by Consumer Report, but the Car Fax vehicle report indicates frequent maintenance and no problems, which report would you trust more when it comes to this individual vehicle?

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dagmaraka wrote:

Thomas wrote:
CalamityJane wrote:
Like Chai said, I also would
choose AAA, especially since you have to pay a higher premium at the
beginning, due to no driving history.

This theme is repeating itself quite often lately. No credit history, no driving history .... It's almost like a Western, where I'm the Mysterious Stranger Without a History (MSWH) riding into town. That's okay -- MSWHs usually turn out to be nice guys who save the whole Western. But it feels funny.

Well, this country is in quite a bit of trouble. No pressure, MSWH, but we have quite high expectations from you.

Well, I'd love to get off my horse, grab my gun, and help you sort it out. But I'm coming from a far-away land called Old Europe, you see, where evildoers make the laws, and <tragic pause> they won't even let you have guns. <sad Humphrey Bogart face>. But if you lend me your boxing gloves, I'll see what I can do.

Ticomaya wrote:

Plus, if you get a BMW or Mercedes, you will need to budget for a monthly mechanic's bill.

CalamityJane wrote:

Baloney, Tico!

Careful Tico. Calamity Jane is from Munich. If you diss BMW any more, you are entering a world of pain.

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Lola wrote:

And the drivers are never, no way courteous....look out, you may get shot by a man in a business suit and a Mercedes with a shot gun. Always expect the worst.

Oh that's not true Lola.

I'd say Miami, parts of Chicago, Houston, Dallas are far worse.

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Thomas, you will not find a used vehicle lease. There is no way for them to make a profit on it.

You seem to be on the right track, however.

Good luck.

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Thomas wrote:

Thanks for the list, blatham! What does the asterisk in front of some cars mean?

Those are all Toyotas.

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I think buying a good used vehicle is lease-ish, especially if you buy it directly from the seller. (Iffy, but I've heard good things about people buying cars via Craigslist. You need to be methodical and research a lot and make sure you take the car to a very good mechanic for a thorough inspection -- something you should do when buying any used car, anyway -- but I think you could handle all of those things).

If you buy a good used car direct from the seller and then sell it the same way (direct to a buyer, no middlepeople) at the end of 2-3 years, it won't necessarily have depreciated that much. I can't imagine that the difference in price would be more than what you would have paid per month to lease it in that time.

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thomas

I'm not familiar with carfax but I think (on a brief look) its value will be to get data on an individual car (accident history, Katrina refugee, liens, etc).

Many dealerships now have a program where they do a thorough check on a car and give it a "certified" status and often provide special warranties. There are various iterations of this depending on manufacturer. These cars tend to be higher priced than average but they are the cream of the crop and, given you've chosen a dependable vehicle, probably these will provide you with the least hassle in terms of maintenance costs and repair costs. see here http://www.cars.com/go/advice/shopping/cpo/programs/programGuide.jsp;jsessionid=MCDALMZTJV5SPLAYIERU2UY?aff=national

As to getting a good price from the seller, there's quite a bit of good advice online as to appropriate prices and dealer markups and how to go about bargaining.

One last consideration, given the cost of gasoline, I'd check mileage figures too. This present BMW and a prior Acura are the only 6 cyl cars I've had, all previous were 4 cyl. and they are so good these days that they are entirely adequate even if you want to play Stirling Moss.

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blatham wrote:

Thomas wrote:
Thanks for the list, blatham! What does the asterisk in front of some cars mean?

Those are all Toyotas.

Oh man that's deep! No wonder I didn't get it. Thanks!

sozobe wrote:

If you buy a good used car direct from the seller and then sell it the same way (direct to a buyer, no middlepeople) at the end of 2-3 years, it won't necessarily have depreciated that much. I can't imagine that the difference in price would be more than what you would have paid per month to lease it in that time.

Especially if "it" isn't leasable because it's used. You're right, "buying a used car is lease-ish" is a good way to think about it.

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blatham wrote:

As to getting a good price from the seller, there's quite a bit of good advice online as to appropriate prices and dealer markups and how to go about bargaining.

I'll need that. I suck at bargaining. One thing I noticed on some superficial looks at "how to bargain" sites is that much of the bargaining concerns getting a good rate to finance the car with. Is there any special advice for people who pay cash? (Or debit card, as in my case.)

blatham wrote:

One last consideration, given the cost of gasoline, I'd check mileage figures too.

But gasoline is ridiculously cheap in America! Why would I economize on it? (Sorry, couldn't resist. Your advice about 4 cylinders v. 6 cylinders sounds solid.)

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Thomas, in your situation, I would really investigate buying from an individual. IF you are truly looking used.

Dealers are all about making a sizable profit per car, and get it (many times)because they finance.

I buy and sell a lot of vehicles, and never pay nearly what a dealer would attempt to get.

PS
I have heard $4+ per gallon by the first of the year...

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Thomas wrote:

I'll need that. I suck at bargaining. One thing I noticed on some superficial looks at "how to bargain" sites is that much of the bargaining concerns getting a good rate to finance the car with. Is there any special advice for people who pay cash? (Or debit card, as in my case.)

In most cases the new car dealer (and often the manufacturer as well) make money from both transactions - the vehicle sale and the loan. To an extent this profit is fungible and discounts in one are used as an inducement for the other - as you noted. Moreover, with such a purchase, it is to their advantage to turn the discussion from the real price of the vehicle to the periodic payments on the loan that will cover it. The power of cash is still significant, however, and none of these games will apply to your planned cash purchase.

Yours will be a very simple transaction for the seller - a cash purchase with no trade-in sale of the previous vehicle. This takes away some of the complexity that they often use to hide their profits (i.e. offering a high trade-in price for the old vehicle, while covering it with added markups on the new one, etc.). This can work to your advantage. Check on state taxes - there is usually a 7% (or so ) sales tax on the purchase and local licensing fees of a few hundred (in most states- more in some). Armed with a good estimate of such fees, it is often advantageous for the buyer to offer a fixed sum for the vehicle, taxes, license and all - and let the dealer either accept or reject the offer (or counter it) as he choses.

Salesmen will often play a game with an unseen "sales manager' who must approve all deals. They use that to leave themselves with one last "yes, but..." move after the buyer and salesman have reached a tentative agreement. Usually this involves adding a few hundred or a thousand or so to the sale price. A good response is simply to say "No" and leave. By then they will have your phone number and you will very likely get a call with a better offer the following day.

That leaves you with the problem of coming up with a good offer price fotr the vehicle itself. There are a number of good web sites that provide fairly good regional estimates of the prevailing sale prices of new and recently used vehicles. Take one of them, shave off a few hundred and offer that (adjusted for taxes and fees).

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thomas

Re purchasing/bargaining...try here http://auto.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=car-buying.htm&url=http://www.carbuyingtips.com

If you do buy privately, make sure you take the car into a dealership or good garage and have them go over it carefully. Cost will be about a hundred bucks ususally. You can get a better price this way but unless you are lucky it is time consuming (you have to go to the seller's house, then take the car to check it, and something's wrong so you need to go to another house...etc...it can be a huge pain in the ass).

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Prices you can compare at www.kbb.com or www.edmunds.com

If you buy used, don't take a BMW - their drivers are reckless everywhere
in the world. A MB driver is much more careful with his car, including
proper maintenance. I am really partial to MBs, they have given me always
the best deals and service.

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Rockhead wrote:

TPS
I have heard $4+ per gallon by the first of the year...

As I said: ridiculously cheap. Here in Munich, it's 1.40 per liter today, which translates to $7.80 per gallon.

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blatham wrote:

thomas

Re purchasing/bargaining...try here http://auto.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=car-buying.htm&url=http://www.carbuyingtips.com

CalamityJane wrote:

Prices you can compare at www.kbb.com or www.edmunds.com

Thanks to both of you!

CalamityJan wrote:

If you buy used, don't take a BMW - their drivers are reckless everywhere
in the world. A MB driver is much more careful with his car, including
proper maintenance. I am really partial to MBs, they have given me always
the best deals and service.

You hear that, Bernie?

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You know, now that I think of it, I almost never see an old BMW in really good shape... and every once in a great while I'll see an old Mercedes in really good shape (usually one of the old big-minimalist diesel cow).

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Quote:

CalamityJan wrote:
If you buy used, don't take a BMW - their drivers are reckless everywhere
in the world. A MB driver is much more careful with his car, including
proper maintenance. I am really partial to MBs, they have given me always the best deals and service.

thomas asks: You hear that, Bernie?

You know, I almost didn't hear it. Lola has this place stuffed with soft, squishy things and our accoustics are...well, not crisp or nimble...actually the situation is similar to that boat feeling of a Mercedes when it finally gets in motion.

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Chai wrote:

Lola wrote:
And the drivers are never, no way courteous....look out, you may get shot by a man in a business suit and a Mercedes with a shot gun. Always expect the worst.

Oh that's not true Lola.

I'd say Miami, parts of Chicago, Houston, Dallas are far worse.

Chai,

I think you might have mis-read what I wrote.........or I you. I was talking about Dallas. I don't know anything about driving in New Jersey. I've always been driven when I was in New Jersey, mostly from Newark airport and back again.

Thomas,

About the used car idea. My ex-husband loves buying cars, especially when he can get a good deal. He's never bought a brand new car. He found used cars with low milage and only one year old. We drove very nice, very dependable cars this way. He always says that you lose $10,000. (or proportionally whatever) when you drive a new car off the lot. Good luck with finding a car. Research it thoroughly before you buy, you hear?

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Iselin, New Jersey

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