Oil at $87 and rising - still no alternative energy

Cycloptichorn wrote:

My bicycle is still pretty cheap to fill up.

You addicted-to-driving folks are suckers. Man up and abandon that **** before it bankrupts ya - and get in shape at the same time.

Cycloptichorn

Tell that to your delivery people.

We know how selfish the liberals, only concerned about themselves.

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McCains plan. At least he address is real issue and provides a real answer!

"With some of the savings from cutting subsidies for industries that can stand on their own, we can establish a national challenge to improve the cost, range, size, and weight of electric batteries for automobiles. Fifty percent of cars on the road are driven 25 miles a day or less. Affordable battery-powered vehicles that can meet average commuter needs could help us cut oil imports in half. The reward will be earned through merit by whomever accomplishes the task, whether a laboratory in the Department of Energy, a university, a corporation or an enterprising young inventor who works out of his family's garage.

There is much we can do to increase our own oil production in ways that protect the environment using advanced technologies, including those that use and bury carbon dioxide, to recover the oil below the wells we have already drilled, and tap oil, natural gas, and shale economically with minimal environmental impact.

The United States has coal reserves more abundant than Saudi Arabia's oil reserves. We found a way to cut down acid rain pollutants from burning coal, and we can find a way to use our coal resources without emitting excessive greenhouse gases.

We have in use today a zero emission energy that could provide electricity for millions more homes and businesses than it currently does. Yet it has been over twenty-five years since a nuclear power plant has been constructed. The barriers to nuclear energy are political not technological. We've let the fears of thirty years ago, and an endless political squabble over the storage of nuclear spent fuel make it virtually impossible to build a single new plant that produces a form of energy that is safe and non-polluting. If France can produce 80% of its electricity with nuclear power, why can't we? Is France a more secure, advanced and innovative country than we are? Are France's scientists and entrepreneurs more capable than we are? I need no answer to that rhetorical question. I know my country well enough to know otherwise."

http://www.johnmccain.com/informing/news/Speeches/13bc1d97-4ca5-49dd-9805-1297872571ed.htm

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woiyo wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
My bicycle is still pretty cheap to fill up.

You addicted-to-driving folks are suckers. Man up and abandon that **** before it bankrupts ya - and get in shape at the same time.

Cycloptichorn

Tell that to your delivery people.

We know how selfish the liberals, only concerned about themselves.

I had this discussion when I first came on this board, and had to remind cyclops that even though he rode a bicycle, much of what makes his life what it is derives from trucks to deliver the goods to him, not even considering the machines that mined the metal, processed it, and so forth to build his bicycle. Plus all that goes into building the place where he lives and on and on. And all the things that go into building a computer and for Al Gore to invent the internet to be on this forum involves things he has scarcely even considered. Plus his health care, where would one begin? If he really wants to not depend upon oil, he would need to move into a cave and live off the land, totally, and no health care, no computer, no nothing. He would need to chip his own arrowheads and make his own bow and arrows, and then learn how to hunt. I would love to see that.

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okie wrote:

woiyo wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
My bicycle is still pretty cheap to fill up.

You addicted-to-driving folks are suckers. Man up and abandon that **** before it bankrupts ya - and get in shape at the same time.

Cycloptichorn

Tell that to your delivery people.

We know how selfish the liberals, only concerned about themselves.

I had this discussion when I first came on this board, and had to remind cyclops that even though he rode a bicycle, much of what makes his life what it is derives from trucks to deliver the goods to him, not even considering the machines that mined the metal, processed it, and so forth to build his bicycle. Plus all that goes into building the place where he lives and on and on. And all the things that go into building a computer and for Al Gore to invent the internet to be on this forum involves things he has scarcely even considered. Plus his health care, where would one begin? If he really wants to not depend upon oil, he would need to move into a cave and live off the land, totally, and no health care, no computer, no nothing. You would need to chip your own arrowheads and make your own bow and arrows, and then learn how to hunt. I would love to see that.

As a proud member of the Lone Star Bow Hunters association during my teenage and college years, I can almost guarantee I've downed more deer with an arrow then you have or ever will, Okie.

Yes, I realize that things have to get delivered using gasoline. A modest reduction in usage by American citizens would lower the price almost immediately, and would certainly lower the gas bill for the citizens themselves. Riding a bicycle is a great way to do this.

I don't order very much stuff, being a mostly non-materialist. So my life is not as impacted as others by the rising cost of fuel.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

Cycloptichorn wrote:

okie wrote:
woiyo wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
My bicycle is still pretty cheap to fill up.

You addicted-to-driving folks are suckers. Man up and abandon that **** before it bankrupts ya - and get in shape at the same time.

Cycloptichorn

Tell that to your delivery people.

We know how selfish the liberals, only concerned about themselves.

I had this discussion when I first came on this board, and had to remind cyclops that even though he rode a bicycle, much of what makes his life what it is derives from trucks to deliver the goods to him, not even considering the machines that mined the metal, processed it, and so forth to build his bicycle. Plus all that goes into building the place where he lives and on and on. And all the things that go into building a computer and for Al Gore to invent the internet to be on this forum involves things he has scarcely even considered. Plus his health care, where would one begin? If he really wants to not depend upon oil, he would need to move into a cave and live off the land, totally, and no health care, no computer, no nothing. You would need to chip your own arrowheads and make your own bow and arrows, and then learn how to hunt. I would love to see that.

As a proud member of the Lone Star Bow Hunters association during my teenage and college years, I can almost guarantee I've downed more deer with an arrow then you have or ever will, Okie.

Yes, I realize that things have to get delivered using gasoline. A modest reduction in usage by American citizens would lower the price almost immediately, and would certainly lower the gas bill for the citizens themselves. Riding a bicycle is a great way to do this.

I don't order very much stuff, being a mostly non-materialist. So my life is not as impacted as others by the rising cost of fuel.

Cycloptichorn

So as a result, you do not care.

0 Replies

woiyo wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
okie wrote:
woiyo wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
My bicycle is still pretty cheap to fill up.

You addicted-to-driving folks are suckers. Man up and abandon that **** before it bankrupts ya - and get in shape at the same time.

Cycloptichorn

Tell that to your delivery people.

We know how selfish the liberals, only concerned about themselves.

I had this discussion when I first came on this board, and had to remind cyclops that even though he rode a bicycle, much of what makes his life what it is derives from trucks to deliver the goods to him, not even considering the machines that mined the metal, processed it, and so forth to build his bicycle. Plus all that goes into building the place where he lives and on and on. And all the things that go into building a computer and for Al Gore to invent the internet to be on this forum involves things he has scarcely even considered. Plus his health care, where would one begin? If he really wants to not depend upon oil, he would need to move into a cave and live off the land, totally, and no health care, no computer, no nothing. You would need to chip your own arrowheads and make your own bow and arrows, and then learn how to hunt. I would love to see that.

As a proud member of the Lone Star Bow Hunters association during my teenage and college years, I can almost guarantee I've downed more deer with an arrow then you have or ever will, Okie.

Yes, I realize that things have to get delivered using gasoline. A modest reduction in usage by American citizens would lower the price almost immediately, and would certainly lower the gas bill for the citizens themselves. Riding a bicycle is a great way to do this.

I don't order very much stuff, being a mostly non-materialist. So my life is not as impacted as others by the rising cost of fuel.

Cycloptichorn

So as a result, you do not care.

No, I don't care. Why should I?

If oil is too expensive, adjust your lifestyle. Simple as that. But you bunch act like that's murder or something.

Oil and gasoline have been this expensive, or more so, in almost every other country on the planet, for a long time. They seem to have gotten by without too many problems. Why should I care if a bunch of fat, lazy, short-sighted people can't get their **** together here?

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

Well, there ya go. Cyc's true feeling about the poor and middle class Americans.

0 Replies

McGentrix wrote:

Well, there ya go. Cyc's true feeling about the poor and middle class Americans.

That I expect them to take measures to help themselves, instead of expecting the gov't or someone else to help them?

Isn't that the line that you Republicans push all the time?

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

Cycloptichorn wrote:

woiyo wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
okie wrote:
woiyo wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
My bicycle is still pretty cheap to fill up.

You addicted-to-driving folks are suckers. Man up and abandon that **** before it bankrupts ya - and get in shape at the same time.

Cycloptichorn

Tell that to your delivery people.

We know how selfish the liberals, only concerned about themselves.

I had this discussion when I first came on this board, and had to remind cyclops that even though he rode a bicycle, much of what makes his life what it is derives from trucks to deliver the goods to him, not even considering the machines that mined the metal, processed it, and so forth to build his bicycle. Plus all that goes into building the place where he lives and on and on. And all the things that go into building a computer and for Al Gore to invent the internet to be on this forum involves things he has scarcely even considered. Plus his health care, where would one begin? If he really wants to not depend upon oil, he would need to move into a cave and live off the land, totally, and no health care, no computer, no nothing. You would need to chip your own arrowheads and make your own bow and arrows, and then learn how to hunt. I would love to see that.

As a proud member of the Lone Star Bow Hunters association during my teenage and college years, I can almost guarantee I've downed more deer with an arrow then you have or ever will, Okie.

Yes, I realize that things have to get delivered using gasoline. A modest reduction in usage by American citizens would lower the price almost immediately, and would certainly lower the gas bill for the citizens themselves. Riding a bicycle is a great way to do this.

I don't order very much stuff, being a mostly non-materialist. So my life is not as impacted as others by the rising cost of fuel.

Cycloptichorn

So as a result, you do not care.

No, I don't care. Why should I?

If oil is too expensive, adjust your lifestyle. Simple as that. But you bunch act like that's murder or something.

Oil and gasoline have been this expensive, or more so, in almost every other country on the planet, for a long time. They seem to have gotten by without too many problems. Why should I care if a bunch of fat, lazy, short-sighted people can't get their **** together here?

Cycloptichorn

Well maybe some of your fellow fat, lazy, short-sighted people live in the North East and may have just a little problem riding their bike in FEBRUARY.

Maybe some of your fellow fat citizens happen to live 20 miles from their place of business and mass transportation is not readilly available.

We can go on and on, but apparently you will just criticize and show us how the elitists live.

0 Replies

woiyo wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
woiyo wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
okie wrote:
woiyo wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
My bicycle is still pretty cheap to fill up.

You addicted-to-driving folks are suckers. Man up and abandon that **** before it bankrupts ya - and get in shape at the same time.

Cycloptichorn

Tell that to your delivery people.

We know how selfish the liberals, only concerned about themselves.

I had this discussion when I first came on this board, and had to remind cyclops that even though he rode a bicycle, much of what makes his life what it is derives from trucks to deliver the goods to him, not even considering the machines that mined the metal, processed it, and so forth to build his bicycle. Plus all that goes into building the place where he lives and on and on. And all the things that go into building a computer and for Al Gore to invent the internet to be on this forum involves things he has scarcely even considered. Plus his health care, where would one begin? If he really wants to not depend upon oil, he would need to move into a cave and live off the land, totally, and no health care, no computer, no nothing. You would need to chip your own arrowheads and make your own bow and arrows, and then learn how to hunt. I would love to see that.

As a proud member of the Lone Star Bow Hunters association during my teenage and college years, I can almost guarantee I've downed more deer with an arrow then you have or ever will, Okie.

Yes, I realize that things have to get delivered using gasoline. A modest reduction in usage by American citizens would lower the price almost immediately, and would certainly lower the gas bill for the citizens themselves. Riding a bicycle is a great way to do this.

I don't order very much stuff, being a mostly non-materialist. So my life is not as impacted as others by the rising cost of fuel.

Cycloptichorn

So as a result, you do not care.

No, I don't care. Why should I?

If oil is too expensive, adjust your lifestyle. Simple as that. But you bunch act like that's murder or something.

Oil and gasoline have been this expensive, or more so, in almost every other country on the planet, for a long time. They seem to have gotten by without too many problems. Why should I care if a bunch of fat, lazy, short-sighted people can't get their **** together here?

Cycloptichorn

Well maybe some of your fellow fat, lazy, short-sighted people live in the North East and may have just a little problem riding their bike in FEBRUARY.

Maybe some of your fellow fat citizens happen to live 20 miles from their place of business and mass transportation is not readilly available.

We can go on and on, but apparently you will just criticize and show us how the elitists live.

Elitist, my ass. There's nothing elite about riding your bicycle at all.

20 miles is not an unreasonable bicycle commute. Many people do exactly that on a daily basis, both ways. My commute is less then that, but that's because I planned my life that way. Nothing stops others from doing the same.

The point is not that every person can do it, or that everyone should give up their automobiles; the point is that reducing your consumption is a great way to fight rising fuel costs.

The idea that consumption cannot be reduced is a farce. The vast majority of people can reduce their consumption, but would rather bitch about rising prices instead.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

Cycloptichorn wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
Well, there ya go. Cyc's true feeling about the poor and middle class Americans.

That I expect them to take measures to help themselves, instead of expecting the gov't or someone else to help them?

Isn't that the line that you Republicans push all the time?

Cycloptichorn

Yep. But you ain't no Republican.

0 Replies

McGentrix wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
Well, there ya go. Cyc's true feeling about the poor and middle class Americans.

That I expect them to take measures to help themselves, instead of expecting the gov't or someone else to help them?

Isn't that the line that you Republicans push all the time?

Cycloptichorn

Yep. But you ain't no Republican.

I'm reformed, but it doesn't mean I forgot everything I was taught...

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

That is not what you said, but reducing consumption is basic and I agree everyone should try.

I want to hear Washington Politicians press the auto makes to IMMEDIATELY make fuel efficient cars or tax the crap out of them. Washington regulates what we eat, drink, how we build things and what drugs we can take. Yet not one politician has the stones to regulate what we drive.

PS: You sound like my grandfather. Do you ride to work uphill, both ways?

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woiyo wrote:

That is not what you said, but reducing consumption is basic and I agree everyone should try.

I want to hear Washington Politicians press the auto makes to IMMEDIATELY make fuel efficient cars or tax the crap out of them. Washington regulates what we eat, drink, how we build things and what drugs we can take. Yet not one politician has the stones to regulate what we drive.

PS: You sound like my grandfather. Do you ride to work uphill, both ways?

Nope; it's uphill the whole way there, downhill the whole way back. My afternoon commute home is truly a thing of beauty.

Cycloptichorn

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Who has a problem biking in February? Being in the northeast US is no excuse.

Here in Calgary, Canada, which is certainly on par with the NE US, if not considerably colder, sees dozens of bicycle commuters riding even when temps hit minus 30 C....some of the hardcores are even out there when temps plummet to -40.

It's all a matter of will really....

I dump all my spare change in a jar throughout the year and take a vacation on the "small change". If everyone makes slight adjustments, big changes can result. But it's so much easier to say why try, or to criticize those who are making their lives just a bit less convenient by reducing their dependence on oil.

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Hey guys! Cyclo is right! I just went out and jumped my 85 year neighbor and told her no more rides from me to her doctor. She will either have too take a bus "no buses in this small town" or ride her bike the 40 miles to her doctor. I didn't think she knew those kind of words!

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rabel22 wrote:

Hey guys! Cyclo is right! I just went out and jumped my 85 year neighbor and told her no more rides from me to her doctor. She will either have too take a bus "no buses in this small town" or ride her bike the 40 miles to her doctor. I didn't think she knew those kind of words!

Your anger doesn't make a great argument.

You will see above that I stated that not everyone can ride a bike, but everyone can try to reduce their usage.

Cycloptichorn

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woiyo wrote :

Quote:

I want to hear Washington Politicians press the auto makes to IMMEDIATELY make fuel efficient cars or tax the crap out of them.

certainly here in canada there seem to be plenty of small cars on dealers' lots - haven't noticed any shortage of small cars ; haven't noticed a shortage of ANY cars for that matter .
just like there are now too many houses on the market , there seem to be too many cars on the dealers' lots .
i have noticed that car dealers and manufacturers are advertising like crazy trying to get us to buy cars . perhaps there is an oversupply and the normal market forces - demand and supply - will take care of that .

as for forcing the automakers to make more fuel-efficient cars , why not make it more attractive for both the manufacturer and the purchaser to switch to more fuel effecient cars : INCREASE GASOLINE TAXES and reduce general (income) tax .

we are driving a 1999 olds-intrigue . it's not the thriftieth car when it comes to gas consumption , but since we are now driving less than 10,000 miles a year and the car performs like new , there is no financial incentive to buy a new - more fuel efficient - car . i'd have to spend at least $20,000 to save perhaps $1,000 a year .

if i were a republican - or conservative in canada - i'd argue that "demand and supply" should be allowed to correct the market .
(i'm neither a rep nor a conservative , but still believe that demand and supply will probably even things out , but it will take a while - just like in the housing market .)

if automakers are forced to make cars that don't sell , they will make even less profit , auto workers would suffer , pension funds invested in the auto sector would suffer and reduce people's pension - hardly a satisfactory solution imo .
hbg

ps. re. "housing market" : there was a real estate investor on CNBC this morning . he said that he is now buying houses in florida at 40-60% of builders' costs . he is willing to hang in for a few years and believes he'll eventually make a good profit . he said that he already has many inquiries from foreign investors wiling to put some money on the line - that should be good for the U.S. housing industry .

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woiyo wrote :

Quote:

There is much we can do to increase our own oil production in ways that protect the environment using advanced technologies, including those that use and bury carbon dioxide, to recover the oil below the wells we have already drilled, and tap oil, natural gas, and shale economically with minimal environmental impact.

The United States has coal reserves more abundant than Saudi Arabia's oil reserves. We found a way to cut down acid rain pollutants from burning coal, and we can find a way to use our coal resources without emitting excessive greenhouse gases

so how much are investors - big and small - willing to put into these new production facilities ?
are you willing to invest your own money in these industries or would you encourage your pension plan - assumimng you have one - to invest your pension in such ventures ?
since there is only a limited amount of money to invest , investors usually exercise a fair amount of care before putting their money on the line - i know , i do and still make mistakes .
hbg

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Oil at $87 and rising - still no alternative energy

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