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Electricity Blackout

 
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2003 09:49 am
I'm in an electrical coop, Timber, so that's the way we do it here. Same with water well drilling, which is increasingly limited (enraging libertarians) to avoid killing off the aquifer.

My earlier experience of privately owned utilities was in NJ where only lip service was paid to conservation. It's the same problem as with oil companies/vehicle producers. Private companies not only base their policy on THEIR shareholders' profit but are indirectly influenced by shareholders in general.

The environmentalists deserve little if any blame in this. All they've done is draw a line in the sand with respect to transmission lines. A well-thought-out grid would be acceptable to most environmentalists. The environmentalist argument is really knee-jerk.

As for the upgrades, Bush says he intends to make the consumers pay. In this case, I think he is dead wrong and I think that should be defeated -- and may be. We are being asked to pay for their unwillingness to do what we expected them to do with what we paid them. That's like Dad begging son not to destroy his graduation present truck, but to get the oil changed regularly. And then the son expecting Dad to pay for a new truck when the old one's motor burns out.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2003 09:56 am
No matter who's to blame, or who pays, The Public gets the tab ... taxes, or higher costs, one way or the other. And perhaps I unfairly single out environmentalists ... there are lots of special interest groups that have obstructed needed infrastructure upgrades. But the bottom line is that there has been no bottom line reason to do it, so it hasn't gotten done. When it becomes beneficial to the bottom line, it will come to the top of the "Things to do list", and not before. That's business.
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2003 10:55 am
That's why we need a return of power to the individual citizen, Timber. The bottom line for consumers is most reliable power at least cost. The bottom line for the industry is just about the opposite: the least reliable they can get away with, and the most profitable they can manage to hit us up for. I don't believe it's wrong to reckon that power is a national resource and a national necessity and should therefore be in the hands of those who (allegedly) are in charge of the nation: the people. There's room in there for private interests and profit -- on a leash and in the open. No secret energy policy, please. Business interests are only good when they coincide with the interests of people. Otherwise, out they go.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2003 05:58 pm
Al Qaida claims responsibility for blackout
Yeah, sure, it's easy to take credit for anything. This doesn't ring true.
-----BumbleBeeBoogie

Al Qaida claims responsibility for blackout
SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM
Monday, August 18, 2003

Al Qaida's Abu Hafs Brigades has claimed responsibility for the blackout last week in the Northeast and Midwest United States. A communiqué by the Abu Hafs Brigades made reference to Operation Quick Lightning in the Land of the Tyrant of this Generation."

It was published as "the third communiqué by the "Brigades."

In the first, they accepted responsibility for the downing of an airplane in Kenya. The second accepted responsibility for the Jakarta bombing of the Marriott hotel on August 5, 2003.

The new communiqué says that in compliance with the orders of Osama bin Laden to strike at the American economy, the Brigades struck two important electricity supply targets on the East coast, according to the Middle East Media Research Institute. The Brigades say that they cannot reveal how they did it, because they will probably have to use the same method again soon. The communiqué also claimed that the operation was meant as a present for the Iraqi people.

The following are excerpts from a report by the London-based Arabic daily Al-Hayat about the communiqué: [1]

The Blackout was 'a Realization of Bin Laden's promise to offer the Iraqi people a present'

"A communiqué attributed to Al Qaeda claimed responsibility for the power blackout that happened in the U.S. last Thursday, saying that the brigades of Abu Fahes Al Masri had hit two main power plants supplying the East of the U.S., as well as major industrial cities in the U.S. and Canada, 'its ally in the war against Islam (New York and Toronto) and their neighbors.'

"The communiqué assured that the operation 'was carried out on the orders of Osama bin Laden to hit the pillars of the U.S. economy,' as 'a realization of bin Laden's promise to offer the Iraqi people a present.'

'The Americans lived a black day they will never forget'

"The statement, which Al-Hayat obtained from the website of the International Islamic Media Center, didn't specify the way the alleged sabotage was carried out. The communiqué read: 'let the criminal Bush and his gang know that the punishment is the result of the action, the soldiers of God cut the power on these cities, they darkened the lives of the Americans as these criminals blackened the lives of the Muslim people in Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine. The Americans lived a black day they will never forget. They lived a day of terror and fear… a state of chaos and confusion where looting and pillaging rampaged the cities, just like the capital of the caliphate Baghdad, and Afghanistan and Palestine were. Let the American people take a sip from the same glass.'

'The U.S. will not live in peace until our conditions are met'

"It added: 'we heard amazing statements made by the American and Canadian enemies which have nuclear physics universities and space agencies, that lightning hit and destroyed the two plants. And we are supposed to believe this nonsense. If the blackout occurred in one or two cities, their lie would have been credible. But the fact is that the blackout hit the entire East and part of Canada.'

"The communiqué continued: 'one of the benefits of this strike is that the U.S. will not live in peace until our conditions are met, such as releasing all the detainees including Sheikh Omar Abdulrahman, and getting out of the land of the Muslims, including Jerusalem and Kashmir.'

"The authors of the communiqué said that the strikes aimed at 'hitting the major pillar of the U.S. economy (the Stock Exchange)… [and] the UN, which is opposed to Islam, and is based in New York. It is a message to all the investors that the U.S. is no longer a safe country for their money, knowing that the U.S. economy greatly relies on the trust of the investor…'

'The gift of Sheikh Osama Bin Laden is on its way to the White House'
"The communiqué mentioned that some economists said the blackout in the U.S. and Canada would cost the U.S. Treasury no less than ten billion U.S. dollars and in order to 'break the hearts of U.S. officials, just know that the cost paid by the Moujahideen to sabotage the power plants was a mere seven thousand dollars. Die of sorrow!'

"The communiqué ended with: 'we tell the Muslims that this is not the awaited strike, but it is called the war of skirmishes (to drain the enemy), and that the American snakes are enormous and need to be consumed and weakened to be destroyed. We tell the people of Afghanistan and Kashmir that the gift of Sheikh Osama bin Laden is on its way to the White House; then the gift of Al Aqsa, and do we know what is the gift of Al Aqsa, where and when? The answer is what you are seeing!'

[1] Published in English on Dar Al-Hayat website, August 18, 2003, http://english.daralhayat.com/arab_news/08-2003/Article-20030818-14bdd659-c0a8-01ed-0079-6e1c903b7552/story.html
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2003 07:11 pm
Can't blame 'em for tryin'. Oughta figure on it really. However,

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/030818/utilities_firstenergy_2.htm

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=676&ncid=676&e=3&u=/usatoday/20030818/ts_usatoday/11624618l

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=676&ncid=676&e=2&u=/usatoday/20030818/ts_usatoday/11623033

http://biz.yahoo.com/fool/030815/1060964100_3.html

Its clear a neglected, crumbling, aged infrastructure failed in thoroughly predictable fashion, and its clear that a great deal of the circumstance which led to the failure can be laid at the feet of a broad assortment of politicians and activists. There now will emerge the economic incentive required to effect the needed changes ... tax credits, loan guarantees, and other such for which we all will pay. The necessary building will take years, and in the meanwhile, the demand, and production capacity for, electricity continues to grow exponentially, while the distribution system remains inadequate and vulnerable, subject to the near certainty of similar future failure. To treat this as a political football, to play partisan blame games, is unacceptable. It is a matter of utmost National Security, fully deserving of all the energy, enthusiasm , attention and unity typically reserved only to the prosecution of a war. The threat is too great, the stakes too high, to put this off any longer.
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2003 07:50 pm
They're saying it's not surprising to have a mini-blackout. The surprise in this case is that it spread so far.

I'd call it a Cheney reaction.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2003 10:35 am
Eh, oh, way to go, Ohio.

At the time of the blackout, I hear there was a huge power SURGE at Guantanamo. Got that, Abu Hafs Brigasshole?
0 Replies
 
Region Philbis
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2003 03:38 pm
owi wrote:
Do you know if there are any satellite images of this blackout available?


no aerials, but did find some cool pics here:
http://www.gothamist.com/archives/2003/08/15/the_new_york_city_blackout_edition.php
http://www.gothamist.com/archives/2003/08/14/lights_out.php
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2003 02:35 am
Images of a blackout?
Seems a bit Irish, but I know what you mean. Absence of light. A black hole.
Photos in our newspapers of Manhattan showed the only light as coming from the autos, time delay exposures, river of light on the main streets.
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2003 12:45 pm
NASA's system was downed by the "Blaster" but is up again and they've sent out their images:

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/images.php3?img_id=16273
0 Replies
 
mac11
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2003 12:56 pm
Thanks Tartarin.
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2003 01:05 pm
Mac -- If NASA's info interests you, you may not know that you can get on their email list which regularly sends links like the once above, and others, like this:

In the News:
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/

* Latest Images:
Dust Storm over Afghanistan and Pakistan
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/images.php3?img_id=16275

Deforestation in Santa Cruz, Bolivia
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/images.php3?img_id=16274

Blackout Leaves American Cities in the Dark
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/images.php3?img_id=16273

Changes in the Mamore River, Bolivia
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/images.php3?img_id=16272

European Heat Wave
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/images.php3?img_id=15783

Grand Tetons National Park
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/images.php3?img_id=15782

Flooding along the White Nile, Sudan
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/images.php3?img_id=15781

Scandinavia and the Baltic Region
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/images.php3?img_id=15780

Typhoon Etau Sweeps Across Japan
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/images.php3?img_id=15779
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2003 07:11 pm
anyone interested in seeing the hour-to-hour electricity demand in ontario can find it at www.theimo.com ; found the demand pattern quite interesting. hbg
0 Replies
 
THe ReDHoRN
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2003 08:42 pm
I like the name "HAMBURGER!"
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Aug, 2003 03:26 pm
OHMIGOSH[/size]

WHAT A COINCIDENCE!!


Quote:
Draft of Air Rule Is Said to Exempt Many Old Plantsolder power plants, oil refineries and industrial units to make extensive upgrades without having to install new anti-pollution devices, according to those involved in the deliberations.
The new rule, a draft of which was made available to The New York Times by the Natural Resources Defense Council, an environmental group, would constitute a sweeping and cost-saving victory for industries, exempting thousands of indus trial plants and refineries from part of the Clean Air Act. The acting administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency could sign the new rule as soon as next week, administration officials have told utility representatives...

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/22/national/22AIR.html?ex=1062129600&en=92e7712267b251bd&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 04:35 am
THe ReDHoRN wrote:
I like the name "HAMBURGER!"


1,700,000 people living in Hamburg are called so - plus some more, like hamburger, who originally are from that lovely city :wink:
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 08:40 am
Article in the New York Times on the cause of the blackout:

NEW YORK TIMES
0 Replies
 
cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 09:10 am
Obvious joke, but coming from a German comedian, it was oddly funny: "My mother was from Frankfurt, and my father was from Hamburg, so I am a cross between a Frankfurter and a Hamburger!"

He also had this one: "Take my wife, I command you." Wish I could remember his name...he cracked me up. Laughing
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2003 01:06 pm
WALTER : thanks for your kind remarks ! when we were in hamburg this spring, i had arranged a visit to the pilotage service in hamburg which sits just at the entrance to the harbour. we were given a wonderful reception and had a chance to see how the ship-traffic is directed up the elbe river from the time ships (coming from the south-west) go through the english channel or are leaving rotterdam and other harbours. quite an impressive operation - particularly when large containerships have to be scheduled to enter with the upcoming tide so that they won't scrape bottom or worse, wind up on a sandbank. as a souvenir i received a cap engraved with the hamburg web-address www.hamburg.de (it's multilingual and everyone is invited for a FREE visit) and a very beautiful book "schauermann im hamburger hafen" ("longshoremen in the harbour of hamburg").. anyone interested in anything maritime might also want to visit www.smd.de - the website of the pilotage service - it's not yet multilingual, but some of the extensive links are. hbg ...anytime i'm in town now and wearing the cap i'm providing free advertising for hamburg... hope there is no objection for this to appear on the BLACKOUT page...
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Aug, 2003 04:11 am
Well thanks for the detail and the links, Hamburger.
Off-topic comments are always welcome, and for me, particularly when they are of a maritime nature.
I have been on the hamburger Hafenrundfahrt, only once, in about 1966. I would like to go there again. It is a very nice city. I enjoyed the bratwurst/ kartoffelsalat stalls, too.
0 Replies
 
 

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