Appropriate abashment requires kneeling. But, as a humble and unassuming Canadian, I could not allow it. Please revert.
Why, thank you. Would you accept an offering of French Fries slathered with Cheese? That's a popular local treat here, too.
timber
roger, I did a quick search of this info, and nothing comes close to representing 86 million casualties. As a matter of fact, the total for WWII is somewhere in the neighborhood of 14.5 million casualties.
http://www.geocities.com/Axiom43/warcasualties.html I'm afraid who ever wrote up this Q&A didn't do their homework. Sorry, roger. Will do my 'own' homework before posting anything I receive from friends in the future. c.i.
c.i., that "Lack of Homework" is not uncommon in that sort of thing. Often, the purveyors of such are far more interested in their message than in the probity of their "evidence". By and large, that sort of folk do not expect their facts, quotes, and figures to be anything other than blithely accepted by an already receptive audience. They rarely stand critical examination, whether they stem from the left, the right, or the flying saucer freaks.
timber
timber, I should know better. My only excuse is that the email was sent to me by a writer-friend who is a stickler for accuracy. Live and learn. I wrote to him about the two errors, and will share his answer when I receive it. c.i.
There are several more than two errors, c.i., though I won't labor the point. A little googlework rips large holes in that boat's sails.
Something I found particularly amusing about that piece was that many of the links to external "Supportive Evidence" were mutually inconsistent with the authors premise when examined, not merely exerpted. :wink:
timber
Of relevance, still:
In ancient Greece, Socrates was reputed to hold knowledge in high
esteem. One day an acquaintance met the great philosopher and said,
"Socrates, do you know what I just heard about your friend?"
"Hold on a minute," Socrates replied. "Before telling me anything
I'd like you to pass a little test.
It's called the Triple Filter Test."
"Triple filter?"
"That's right," Socrates continued. "Before you talk to me about my
friend, it might be a good idea
to take a moment and filter what you're going to say. The first
filter is Truth. Have you made absolutely
sure that what you are about to tell me is true?"
"No," the man said, "actually I just heard about it and..."
"All right," said Socrates. "So you don't really know if it's true
or not. Now let's try the second filter,
the filter of Goodness. Is what you are about to tell me about my
friend something good?"
"No, on the contrary..."
"So," Socrates continued, "you want to tell me something bad about
him, but you're not certain it's true.
You may still pass the test though, because there's one filter left:
the filter of Usefulness. Is what you
want to tell me about my friend going to be useful to me?"
"No, not really."
"Well," concluded Socrates, "if what you want to tell me is neither
true nor good nor even useful, why tell it to me at all?"
This is why Socrates was a great philosopher and held in such high
esteem.
It also explains why he never found out his best friend was porking
his wife.
Wouldn't that have passed the usefulness test? Thanks for the contribution sumac!
Bill,
Obviously you haven't heard about Xantripe. She is said to have been such a shrew that Socrates found every excuse not to go home. Now if she had been a more enticing lass, we may have been deprived of one of the greatest philosophers of all time.
http://www.arabnews.com/Article.asp?ID=2319""Arab Street" Opposition to War disappointing some Arabs?
timber
Turkey not done yet
Quote:Explanations for Thursday's postponement offered by AKP deputies after their closed meeting varied greatly. The most common was that more time was needed for discussion.
But sources close to the party said the government was nervous now over the constitutional legitimacy of its resolution to admit 62,000 troops - a force the United States would use for a ``northern front'' experts say might speed a victory.
President Ahmet Necdet Sezer said recently the resolution would violate the constitution if it lacked the ``international legitimacy'' offered by a second U.N. Security Council resolution explicitly authorising the use of force against Iraq.
A second resolution, drawn up by the United States and Britain, may not be presented for at least two weeks - not a timetable likely to suit U.S. military planners.
Article 92 of the constitution states that any deployment of foreign troops on Turkish soil or the dispatch of Turkish troops overseas for combat requires ``international legitimacy'' ...
Don't open the cranberry sauce yet. The menu may change before this turkey is done. The Suez Canal could get another rush of traffic in the next few days, and Kuwait get a bit more crowded. Turkey's absence would pose intriguing implications vis-a-vis Iran, also.
timber
For clarity, c.i., I have never doubted you integrity - while observing that we frequently draw opposite conclusions from identical facts.
An interesting article in today's NYTimes:
i am inclined to say that corrupt means result in corrupt ends.
--
March 1, 2003
Powell: U.S. Giving Inspectors More Time
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 8:47 a.m. ET
PARIS (AP) -- Secretary of State Colin Powell said in a radio interview aired Saturday that the United States was giving more time to weapons inspectors in Iraq and that a U.S-backed resolution paving the way for military action would not be voted on immediately.
Powell also said the United States did not want to ``remodel'' the Middle East.
The United States, along with Britain and Spain, has sponsored a U.N. resolution paving the way for military action against Iraq for failing to rid itself of weapons of mass destruction.
France -- which has veto power at the U.N. Security Council -- is strongly opposed to the resolution, and has taken the lead among nations seeking to give U.N. weapons inspectors in Iraq more time and better means to do their job. Paris, along with Germany and Russia, has proposed bolstered measures for inspectors within the current Resolution 1441 that set the inspections process in motion in November.
``We have not yet asked for a vote (on the second resolution) because we're still looking for a peaceful solution,'' Powell told RFI. His comments, made on Friday and aired here Saturday, were dubbed in French.
``We are giving the inspections process more time, as many have asked for,'' he said. ``But in the end, one must conclude we can't go on very long like that.''
Powell said he was in ``complete disagreement'' with French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin who recently suggested that Washington might be seeking the ``remodeling'' of the Middle East by deposing Iraqi President Saddam Hussein.
Powell reiterated that there was but one objective to Resolution 1441 -- disarming Iraq.
``I must nevertheless say that if we are incapable of forcing Iraq to respect its commitments, military action becomes necessary to topple this regime and destroy arms of mass destruction.''
Powell added: ``It's clear for me that a new regime would better respond to the aspirations of Iraqis. This new regime will live in peace with its neighbors. Perhaps that would help the entire region to find peace, stability and prosperity.''
Powell concluded by saying that ``the idea that we do this to remodel all the states of the Middle East is not correct and I think that Mr. de Villepin is wrong.''
France has not rejected the idea of military action against Iraq but says such a move can only be decided after peaceful options to achieve disarmament have been exhausted.
Copyright 2003 The Associated Press | Privacy Policy
Ul, thanks for the article quoting Powell. I continue to have hope when he uses such reasonable language.
March 1, 2003
Iraqi Official Says Saddam Won't Resign
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 9:55 a.m. ET
SHARM EL-SHEIK, Egypt (AP) -- The United Arab Emirates on Saturday called for Saddam Hussein to step down to spare the region war, the first Arab country to do so publicly.
Sheik Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan, president of the Gulf nation, submitted his proposal at an Arab League summit urging Saddam and the rest of his leadership to give up power in exchange for immunity from prosecution.
In the first Baghdad reaction, Iraq's U.N. ambassador, Mohammed Al-Douri, speaking to CNN from New York, repeated the position that there was no chance Saddam might resign.
Observers emerging from the Arab leaders' closed discussions said without elaboration that Iraqi delegates reacted angrily to Sheik Zayed's proposal.
The Emirates suggestion reflected a minority view likely shared only by Gulf nations that have long taken the hardest line against Saddam. A U.S. ally, Sheik Zayed issued his proposal one day after White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said the only way for Iraq to avoid war is ``disarmament and regime change.''
His call defied long-standing resistance among Arab leaders to meddling in each others' domestic affairs.
In contrast, Syrian President Bashar Assad told the summit's opening session that it was a mistake to identify the Iraqi leadership as the source of the crisis. Assad accused the United States of seeking not to topple a dictatorial regime but to secure Iraq's ``oil and redrawing the region's map and destroying Iraq's infrastructure.''
``We are all targeted ... we are all in danger,'' Assad said.
The 22-member League, which includes Iraq, was expected to take a moderate approach when Saturday's summit ends with a pan-Arab declaration on the Iraq crisis. A draft by Arab foreign ministers rejects any attack on Iraq that is not sanctioned by the United Nations and proposes a last-ditch peacemaking effort.
Sheik Zayed, in his 80s and in poor health, did not attend the summit but sent his vice president and proposed his initiative in a letter.
He said Arabs should ``play a major role in (persuading Saddam to step down), something which might amount to the miracle needed to overcome this looming danger'' of war.
The letter did not name Saddam but said the entire ``Iraqi leadership should step down and leave Iraq ... within two weeks of adopting this Arab initiative.''
Iraq should then be governed by the Arab League and the United Nations until it could return to ``its normal situation according to the will of the brotherly Iraqi people.''
Sheik Zayed said the Iraqi leadership should be given legal guarantees that it would not face prosecution but did not specify any charges. Iraqi dissidents accuse Saddam of crimes against humanity for bloody crackdowns on minorities, including using chemical weapons on rebelling Kurds.
Prince Saud, the Saudi foreign minister, told reporters that Sheik Zayed's idea would be studied along with others presented at the summit. He offered no comment on its possble reception.
As Arab leaders planned their summit agenda Thursday, Secretary of State Colin Powell had urged them to call on Saddam to step down. Summit host Egypt said that was impossible.
``We can only ask all parties to abide by international resolutions in order to avoid war,'' Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Maher said Friday.
Still, Arab diplomats privately said the idea of getting Saddam to step down has been under informal discussion.
They said the summit may send a delegation to Baghdad carrying a message to Saddam with vague suggestions he quit. But they also raised the possibility of a softer message, only pressing Iraq to cooperate with U.N. weapons inspectors.
In their pre-summit debates, Arab foreign ministers could not decide whether delegates would go just to Baghdad or also to the United States, the United Nations and the European Union to stress the need for a peaceful resolution.
The ministers also left it to the summit to choose between two proposals addressing what role Arabs might play in a war, diplomats said on condition of anonymity. One calls on Arabs not to take part in any attack; the other, endorsed by the Syrian leader in his speech Saturday, bars Arabs from allowing America to use their territory as a staging ground.
A Kuwaiti envoy, Sheik Ahmed Fahd Al-Ahmed, told reporters the latter wording was ``not realistic'' but that Kuwait supported the call on Arabs not to participate in military action.
Tens of thousands of U.S. troops are training in Kuwait ahead of a possible war with Iraq, which invaded Kuwait in 1990 and occupied it until a U.S.-led coalition forced out Saddam in the 1991 Gulf War.
U.S. troops also are in Iraq's neighbor Jordan and are passing through Egypt's Suez Canal. Other Gulf countries have been sending forces to help defend Kuwait against Iraqi retaliation in the event of a U.S. attack.
The Arab world has been deeply divided over the Iraq crisis. Some countries, like Kuwait, argue war is inevitable and say the region should be planning for the aftermath. A second camp, including Egypt and Saudi Arabia, argues war can be avoided if Iraq cooperates fully with U.N. weapons inspectors.
A third camp -- led by Syria -- wants the League summit to make an unequivocal anti-war declaration, which would go further than condeming any war not authorized by the United Nations.
Copyright 2003 The Associated Press | Privacy Policy
Good early morning reading, Kara and Ul. Now I need some caffeine, or something else. Sheik Zayad is showing courage and leadership, even though he may be in ill health and in his 80's.
Kara,
Re Powell and reasonable language: And how do we get the rest of the administration, including the shrub, to shut up? I smell a split between state and executive branch.
