Kara, I skimmed, but didn't examine the article you linked. It involves the prospects of Mr. Hussein taking up refuge in some other country. Considering the UN and other opposition to disarming his country by force, and our unending tolerance of delaying tactics, why on earth would he even consider leaving? We are simply not motivating the man.
Good article and link, by the way.
sumac, I just heard on NPR that the debate between George Bush and Saddam Hussein did not take place because neither president spoke English.
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March 1, 2003
Turkey to Allow Basing of U.S. Troops
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 12:21 p.m. ET
ANKARA, Turkey (AP) -- Turkey's parliament Saturday voted to allow in 62,000 U.S. combat troops to open a northern front against Iraq, ending weeks of delay.
The vote, however, was extremely close at 264-251 reflecting the deep Turkish divisions over whether to back Washington in a war that is strongly opposed by an overwhelming majority of the Turkish public.
The motion empowers the government to authorize the basing of up to 62,000 troops, 255 warplanes and 65 helicopters. It also allows the government to send thousands of Turkish troops into northern Iraq.
But Turkey and the United States still have to seal an agreement over the military, political and economic conditions of the deployment before troops can arrive and ships carrying armor for the U.S. 4th Infantry Division anchored off the Turkish coast can begin to unload.
Turkey has been seeking billions of dollars in grants and loans to cushion its frail economy from the effects of war. It has also been seeking assurances that a separate Kurdish state will not be created in the aftermath of a possible war.
A diplomat said the signing could come as early as Saturday night.
Turkey's government had been putting off any decision on the U.S. request for weeks, frustrating U.S. war planners who want to use Turkey as a staging point to open a northern front against Iraq that would shorten a war with Turkey's southern neighbor.
Parliament speaker Bulent Arinc opened the session by cautioning legislators that ``we are here for a historic session.''
Opposition politicians urged a ``no'' vote.
``We are calling on you not to be involved with this disgusting war. Turn back when you still have the chance, otherwise the whole Turkish public will suffer,'' lawmaker Onder Sav from the Republican People's Party said in parliament
Salih Kapusuz, deputy chairman of the governing Justice and Development Party, called for a ``yes'' vote and rejected criticism that the government was bowing to U.S. pressure.
``We are not afraid of any force in the world, let alone of the United States. We're just doing whatever is best for the interests of this country,'' he said.
The Justice party has been having difficulty selling the unpopular measure to its public and even to many lawmakers.
Polls show that more than 80 percent of the Turkish public opposes a war and many fear that a conflict will endanger Turkey's frail economic recovery.
Hours before the vote, the party's leader, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, met with party legislators to try and persuade them to back the U.S. troop deployment.
Some 2 kilometers (1.2 miles) away from parliament, some 50,000 Turks held a rally to protest the war.
``No to War,'' and ``We don't want to be America's soldiers','' they shouted as some 4,000 police stood guard. Some carried banners that read: ``The people will stop this war,'' and ``Budget for education not war.''
But the government also fears rebuffing the United States could leave it without US$15 billion in grants and loans that Washington has pledged to help buttress Turkey's economy.
To prevent the creation of a Kurdish state, Turkey wants to send tens of thousands of troops into northern Iraq in case of war.
Kurdish leaders have warned that they will resist if the United States allows Turks to join in an invasion of northern Iraq.
Diplomats say Washington wanted approval from Turkey at least three weeks ago. The Cabinet finally submitted a proposal to parliament earlier this week to permit the deployment.
Party leaders had called for a Thursday vote, but that was put off until Saturday amid signs that some legislators would vote against the motion.
Justice party leaders have tried to show they seek a peaceful solution to the crisis in Iraq and that the government proposal is designed to protect the country in the event of war.
``Everyone is trying to show the government as if it is saying 'yes to war.' No one in their right minds would say 'yes' to war,'' Erdogan said at a political rally Friday.
Copyright 2003 The Associated Press | Privacy Policy
The last offer by the US to avert war is for Saddam to cede power. We all know that ain't gonna happen. c.i.
Let us not dismiss the fact that 50,000 Turks protested.
Just curious. Suppose Saddam heaved a great sigh and decided to leave. Do you really think the US wouldn't find some pretext to go in?
--
March 1, 2003
Turkish Parliament Vote on U.S. Troop Presence Is Challenged
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 12:43 p.m. ET
ANKARA, Turkey (AP) -- Turkey's parliament voted Saturday for deployment of 62,000 U.S. combat troops to open a northern front against Iraq, but the opposition immediately challenged the outcome.
The vote was extremely close, 264-251 with 19 abstentions, and the opposition Republican People's Party quickly disputed it on the grounds that a majority of those present in the chamber did not vote in favor.
Speaker Bulent Arinc and his deputies were meeting to discuss the next step.
The measure would empower the government to authorize the basing of up to 62,000 troops, 255 warplanes and 65 helicopters. It also allows the government to send thousands of Turkish troops into northern Iraq.
Turkey and the United States still have to seal an agreement over the military, political and economic conditions of the deployment before troops can arrive and ships carrying armor for the U.S. 4th Infantry Division anchored off the Turkish coast can begin to unload.
Turkey has been seeking billions of dollars in grants and loans to cushion its frail economy from the effects of war. It has also been seeking assurances that a separate Kurdish state will not be created in the aftermath of a possible war.
A diplomat said the signing could come as early as Saturday night.
Turkey's government had been putting off any decision on the U.S. request for weeks, frustrating U.S. war planners who want to use Turkey as a staging point to open a northern front against Iraq that would shorten a war with Turkey's southern neighbor.
Arinc opened the session by cautioning legislators that ``we are here for a historic session.''
Opposition politicians urged a ``no'' vote.
``We are calling on you not to be involved with this disgusting war. Turn back when you still have the chance, otherwise the whole Turkish public will suffer,'' lawmaker Onder Sav from the Republican People's Party said in parliament
Salih Kapusuz, deputy chairman of the governing Justice and Development Party, called for a ``yes'' vote and rejected criticism that the government was bowing to U.S. pressure.
``We are not afraid of any force in the world, let alone of the United States. We're just doing whatever is best for the interests of this country,'' he said.
The Justice party has been having difficulty selling the unpopular measure to its public and even to many lawmakers.
Polls show that more than 80 percent of the Turkish public opposes a war and many fear that a conflict will endanger Turkey's frail economic recovery.
Hours before the vote, the party's leader, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, met with party legislators to try and persuade them to back the U.S. troop deployment.
Some 2 kilometers (1.2 miles) away from parliament, some 50,000 Turks held a rally to protest the war.
``No to War,'' and ``We don't want to be America's soldiers','' they shouted as some 4,000 police stood guard. Some carried banners that read: ``The people will stop this war,'' and ``Budget for education not war.''
But the government also fears rebuffing the United States could leave it without US$15 billion in grants and loans that Washington has pledged to help buttress Turkey's economy.
To prevent the creation of a Kurdish state, Turkey wants to send tens of thousands of troops into northern Iraq in case of war.
Kurdish leaders have warned that they will resist if the United States allows Turks to join in an invasion of northern Iraq.
Diplomats say Washington wanted approval from Turkey at least three weeks ago. The Cabinet finally submitted a proposal to parliament earlier this week to permit the deployment.
Party leaders had called for a Thursday vote, but that was put off until Saturday amid signs that some legislators would vote against the motion.
Justice party leaders have tried to show they seek a peaceful solution to the crisis in Iraq and that the government proposal is designed to protect the country in the event of war.
``Everyone is trying to show the government as if it is saying 'yes to war.' No one in their right minds would say 'yes' to war,'' Erdogan said at a political rally Friday.
Copyright 2003 The Associated Press | Privacy Policy
Yup, Ul. Things happen, and unhappen with lightening speed.
Turkish Cabinet meeting with Prime Minister now, and Parliament not scheduled to return until Tuesday. Opposition leader says that he considers the issue dead. Vote completed.
And now Ari tells us...'why actually, no disarmament isn't enough after all, Sadaam has to be deposed too'.
Following a regime change and moves to disarmament in Washington, the world will be a safer place, and I think that's a goal worth working towards.
Quote:In its first reaction, the State Department asked for "clarification" of the Turkish vote.
Since this is to be found in some couples of papers, I don't give the link.
Can someone please kindly explain the meaning of '
clarification' here?
All possible dictionary and encyclopædia explanations, which I looked up, don't seem to fit.
Kara wrote:sumac, I just heard on NPR that the debate between George Bush and Saddam Hussein did not take place because neither president spoke English.
And what is the name of the language Mr. Bush speaks daily? Is it Chinese? I think, some people exaggerate in irony on the U.S. President's intellect, and I wonder, why the American patriots do not protest against such a defamation of their national leader.
steissd
They know that, too.
steissd, We are free to express our political leaders in almost any way possible. That's called "freedom of speech." You should see some of the cartoons drawn about our esteemed president.
c.i.
That is sad. Freedom of speech is a good thing, but do not you think that this is humiliating to the people that like America (both U.S. citizens and foreigners) to see such a lack of respect to the President that his subjects express publicly...
Steissd -- That's because we don't limit the word patriotism to mean those who support the politics of any current administration. Our "patria" isn't the president, but the nation.
You knew that!... but you may not have figured out that many of Bush's supporters don't understand a word he's saying and never did. That's why they're still his supporters.
roger, I just received and email from my friend, and he provided the following link. At least the information just didn't come out of the blue.
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat8.htm
c.i.
steissd wrote:That is sad. Freedom of speech is a good thing, but do not you think that this is humiliating to the people that like America (both U.S. citizens and foreigners) to see such a lack of respect to the President that his subjects express publicly...
Monarchs have "subjects". Presidents are supposed to have voters.
Though I'm sure that's not how King George sees it.
