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The US, The UN and Iraq

 
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 07:01 pm
Pompous, arrogant and deconstruction (changed from non) -
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 07:10 pm
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=6392

Quote:
Maoists for "Peace"
By John Perazzo
FrontPageMagazine.com | February 28, 2003


By now, most Americans have heard, somewhere along the way, at least a passing reference to the Not In Our Name (NION) project - a self-described "peace" movement that has produced, most notably, two documents publicly denouncing our country's post-9/11 policies, both foreign and domestic.

These documents have received a groundswell of support from many prominent artists, academicians, and activists. Among the tens of thousands to publicly endorse NION's objectives are Ed Asner, Oliver Stone, Ossie Davis, Danny Glover, Susan Sarandon, Alice Walker, Ramsey Clark, Tom Hayden, Al Sharpton, Martin Luther King III, Gloria Steinem, Medea Benjamin, Leslie Cagan, and Noam Chomsky.

The NION "Pledge to Resist" condemns "the injustices done by our government" in its pursuit of "endless war"; its supposedly greed-driven "transfusions of blood for oil"; its determination to "erode [our] freedoms"; and its eagerness to "invade countries, bomb civilians, kill more children, [and annihilate] families on foreign soil." Mocking President Bush's "axis of evil" reference, the pledge adds: "Not by our hearts will we allow whole peoples or countries to be deemed evil." This, of course, is a gross distortion of Bush's words, which clearly identified the ruling regimes of Iraq, Iran, and North Korea - and not those nations' populations at large - as "evil." If anything, Bush has repeatedly taken pains to express his compassion for the millions of hapless victims living in terror under those regimes.

A separate document, the NION "Statement of Conscience" condemns not only the Bush administration's "stark new measures of repression," but also its "unjust, immoral, illegitimate, [and] openly imperial policy towards the world." According to NION, it is the American government - and not that of Iraq, North Korea, Iran, or any other nation - that leads the way in posing "grave dangers to the people of the world."

The NION project was initiated by a man named C. Clark Kissinger, a longtime Maoist activist. Currently a member of the Revolutionary Communist Party and a contributing writer for the socialist publication Revolutionary Worker, Kissinger began his public activism in the early 1960s when he was the national secretary of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS), founded by Tom Hayden. The leading radical organization of its day, SDS later split into several groups, among which was the militant, revolutionary Weathermen.

Kissinger also worked closely with Fred Hampton and the Black Panther Party, and openly supported Mao Tse-tung's notoriously oppressive Cultural Revolution in China. Kissinger continues to enjoy strong support from the Maoist Internationalist Movement (MIM), which, by its own words, "upholds the revolutionary communist ideology of Marxism-Leninism-Maoism," and views the Chinese Cultural Revolution as "the farthest advance of communism in human history."

MIM frankly declares that it can only achieve its ends "by building public opinion to seize power through armed struggle." Chief among its objectives is to foment "revolution [in] North America, as the [US}military becomes over-extended in the government's attempts to maintain world hegemony." Such are the ideals of Mr. Kissinger and his benefactors. Such are the "peace-loving" roots of the lofty-sounding Communist front group, Not In Our Name.

Wherever there has been a cause aiming to harm or humiliate the United States, Mr. Kissinger has been there. He was a strong supporter of the Iranian revolution, and actually traveled to Iran in 1979. Four years later, he was in West Germany demonstrating against US plans to station cruise and Pershing missiles in Europe. As history has shown that those missile deployments were crucial to the eventual fall of the Soviet empire, it is not at all surprising that Kissinger and his fellow Communists-posing-as-peace-demonstrators opposed them so vehemently ...


The article continues for several paragraphs, discussing various aspects of The Peace Movement, concluding with:

Quote:
... The next time you hear a Not In Our Name spokesperson piously bleating for "peace," remember the man and the organization underpinning the NION movement, and remember the things for which they stand.

Just thought this merited discussion. Its not a new revelation, by any means, but it gets scant attention.




timber
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 07:25 pm
What drives a man to go against the wishes of his countryfolk and the entire world community - including the presidents of Russia, China, France and Germany?

How can a professed Christian continue to defy church leaders worldwide - including the Bishops of Britain and the Pope? How does he rationalize breaking the commandments of his God, which clearly prohibit coveting another's property, theft of their oil, and mass murder of defenseless populations?

How can he ignore his own generals when they complain, "We're advocating a policy that says we will invade another nation that is not currently attacking us or invading any of our allies."

http://www.willthomas.net/
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 07:45 pm
He sees his names in lights, "I'm a star Momma, I'm a star!"
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 07:48 pm
PDid, We are way past that point. The rhetoric now is that even though Saddam will destroy his missiles, it's too late - according to his excellency. c.i.
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 07:50 pm
Hussein Kamel, Saddam's son-in-law and the highest-ranking Iraqi official ever to defect from Saddam's inner circle, told CIA and British intelligence officers and U.N. inspectors in 1995 that after the gulf war, Iraq destroyed all its chemical and biological weapons stocks and the missiles to deliver them.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0226-01.htm
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 08:46 pm
A different take on Hussein Kamel


Comments from '99 PBS Frontline show transcript

Hussein, Saddam Kamel, A Short Bio



timber
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 08:59 pm
this has been an interesting and valuable debate and i am sure many of us have seen and expressed lots of ideas and opinions of which, i am sure, many have been right, i would also say that this debate occurs thought our nation and indeed the world. My comment is why in the hell is this debate not occuring in our congress?
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sumac
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 09:07 pm
What I would like to know is this. If Iraq requires technical assistance to take apart a mechanical device such as the banned missiles, would they not have required technical assistance in how to get rid of bio and chem agents? Safely?

As to my perhaps imprecise language re the Krauthammer piece: It was interesting, and disgusting in kind of a Machiavellian way. Different alliances based on the wrong reasons, yet again? Sounds like the kind of mind that has driven a lot of our foreign policy decisions of the past couple of decades.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 09:09 pm
So do you think Kamel was lying, or what, timber?
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 09:10 pm
I believe this debate has been held in both the Houses of The Legislative Branch, in great detail and over many years and several Administrations, Dyslexia. We've resolved no more of the issue than have they.

Still, it behooves us all to try.



timber
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 09:14 pm
On PBS news tonight there was an interesting piece on a City Council motion in Salem Oregon to oppose the war. The motion was voted down, but such a vote has been passed by some hundred other city councils around the country and voted down by less than twenty. The editor of the Salem paper said that letters coming in to his paper in this normally conservative town were two to one in opposition to the war. So Dys, your question is entirely relevant.

I would like to include the following apology. Rick Mercer is a Canadian humorist and is the fellow who caught George Bush in Florida when Bush was running for the nomination, asking Bush for his opinion of Prime Minister Poutine. Bush went on to talk about the respect he has for Prime Minister Poutine and the affinity he has for Canada. Of course, our Prime Minister's name is Cretien and poutine is french fries with cheese, popular in Quebec.


Quote:
Subject: A truly Canadian Apology to the USA...
Courtesy of Rick Mercer from This Hour Has 22 Minutes CBC Television:

On behalf of Canadians everywhere I'd like to offer an apology to the United States of America. We haven't been getting along very well recently and for that, I am truly sorry.

I'm sorry we called George Bush a moron.

He is a moron but, it wasn't nice of us to point it out. If it's any consolation, the fact that he's a moron shouldn't reflect poorly on the people of America. After all it's not like you actually elected him.

I'm sorry about our softwood lumber. Just because we have more trees than you doesn't give us the right to sell you lumber that's cheaper and better than your own.

I'm sorry we beat you in Olympic hockey. In our defense I guess our excuse would be that our team was much, much, much, much better than yours.

I'm sorry we burnt down your white house during the war of 1812. I notice you've rebuilt it! It's Very Nice.

I'm sorry about your beer. I know we had nothing to do with your beer but, we Feel your Pain.

I'm sorry about our waffling on Iraq. I mean, when you're going up against a crazed dictator, you wanna have your friends by your side. I realize it took more than two years before you guys pitched in against Hitler, but that was different. Everyone knew he had weapons.

And finally on behalf of all Canadians, I'm sorry that we're constantly apologizing for things in a passive-aggressive way which is really a thinly veiled criticism. I sincerely hope that you're not upset over this. We've seen what you do to countries you get upset with.

Thank you.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 09:14 pm
No, PDiddie, what I am saying is there is question of the significance of his assertions, and of inferences to be drawn from them. He is a piece of the puzzle, not any solution to it, as far as I can see. As he is dead, we'll have questions unanswered, I'm sure.


timber
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 09:29 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Take the 'War'-on- Iraq IQ Test
Do you know enough to justify going to war with Iraq?

*********************************


8. Q: How many people have died in wars since World War II?
A: 86 million

c.i.


I take note of your disclaimer to sumac, c.i. Still, this number is just incredible.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 09:31 pm
Over and over again, in dozens of mainstream media, this man--the murdered son-in-law--has been cited as the most definitive source data of his father-in-law's WMD.

Neither the significance of, nor the inferences drawn from, the insider information he provided seems to be questioned by anyone except you. I read your links and did not find them contending Kamel's credibility...just his sanity, rightfully so I would add, in returning to Iraq.

"We know Saddam has WMD..." because we sold them to him.

Beyond the testimony of a dead man, how exactly would it be proved that they have been destroyed?

This logic makes as much sense as a grown man choking on a pretzel and passing out.

Which is to say: none.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 09:46 pm
blatham, I'm confused ... Mercer says "I'm sorry we burnt down your Whitehouse ..."

The Sack of Washington was conducted by the British XX Fusileers, under Major-General Robert Ross of Bladensburg. The only Canadian connection I'm aware of is that the Sack of Washington was seen to be retribution for the earlier American sack of the Canadian city of York. The "Of Bladensburg" is an honorific bestowed upon Ross by The Crown in recognition of his victory over the American Forces at Battle of Bladensberg, which allowed the British Forces briefly occupy and somewhat damage the city of Washington.



timber
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 09:57 pm
PDiddie wrote:
Beyond the testimony of a dead man, how exactly would it be proved that they have been destroyed?

Copies of orders directing that they be destroyed, detailed documentation relating to the undertaking and performance that destruction, including personnel rosters, dates and locations with exact map coordinates, manifests, and photographic and video evidence would be nice. A bureaucracy which archives videos of the torture and execution of opponents, and which has been refered to as the most punctillious of record-keepers in The Middle East (as only befits a militarist society) would be expected to have voluminous and indisputable proof of having carried out a mandate which would have brought them relief from the sanctions which have been forced on them for years. In fact, they were required to maintain documentation of the proper disposal of their known, cataloged, prohibitted materials. In this they have failed. Much for which they are called to account remains unaccounted for.



timber
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 09:58 pm
timber

The Fusileers, an effete group of tea drinkers, actually remained in Montreal to mess with dark-eyed French girls who talked dirty while, dressed in their red uniforms, junior hockey players from the Portage La Prairie area hung the whuppin on you.
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 10:03 pm
Blatham,

Laughing Laughing Laughing I gotta send that to ehBeth.

sumac
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 10:04 pm
Silly of me to have missed the costume and subterfuge element, blatham. I asure you I stand appropriately abashed in light of your revelation Laughing



timber
0 Replies
 
 

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