0
   

The US, The UN and Iraq

 
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 01:53 pm
Love your humor c.i. - also, like dry humor Roger!
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 01:59 pm
Then, roger, you can have another laugh here:

UK taxpayers forced to pay millions for Iraq arms
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 02:22 pm
Walter, I'm afraid the US is also complecit in the same thing, but more importantly, US taxpayers are gonna be paying billions toward this war. The 30 billion being paid to Turkey is only the tip of the iceburg. NOTE: for people who wish to question the 30 billion; I got this from the media. c.i.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 03:17 pm
Quote:
February 27, 2003
U.S. Diplomat's Letter of Resignation

The following is the text of John Brady Kiesling's letter of resignation to Secretary of State Colin L. Powell. Mr. Kiesling is a career diplomat who has served in United States embassies from Tel Aviv to Casablanca to Yerevan.

Dear Mr. Secretary:

I am writing you to submit my resignation from the Foreign Service of the United States and from my position as Political Counselor in U.S. Embassy Athens, effective March 7. I do so with a heavy heart. The baggage of my upbringing included a felt obligation to give something back to my country. Service as a U.S. diplomat was a dream job. I was paid to understand foreign languages and cultures, to seek out diplomats, politicians, scholars and journalists, and to persuade them that U.S. interests and theirs fundamentally coincided. My faith in my country and its values was the most powerful weapon in my diplomatic arsenal.

It is inevitable that during twenty years with the State Department I would become more sophisticated and cynical about the narrow and selfish bureaucratic motives that sometimes shaped our policies. Human nature is what it is, and I was rewarded and promoted for understanding human nature. But until this Administration it had been possible to believe that by upholding the policies of my president I was also upholding the interests of the American people and the world. I believe it no longer.

The policies we are now asked to advance are incompatible not only with American values but also with American interests. Our fervent pursuit of war with Iraq is driving us to squander the international legitimacy that has been America's most potent weapon of both offense and defense since the days of Woodrow Wilson. We have begun to dismantle the largest and most effective web of international relationships the world has ever known. Our current course will bring instability and danger, not security.

The sacrifice of global interests to domestic politics and to bureaucratic self-interest is nothing new, and it is certainly not a uniquely American problem. Still, we have not seen such systematic distortion of intelligence, such systematic manipulation of American opinion, since the war in Vietnam. The September 11 tragedy left us stronger than before, rallying around us a vast international coalition to cooperate for the first time in a systematic way against the threat of terrorism. But rather than take credit for those successes and build on them, this Administration has chosen to make terrorism a domestic political tool, enlisting a scattered and largely defeated Al Qaeda as its bureaucratic ally. We spread disproportionate terror and confusion in the public mind, arbitrarily linking the unrelated problems of terrorism and Iraq. The result, and perhaps the motive, is to justify a vast misallocation of shrinking public wealth to the military and to weaken the safeguards that protect American citizens from the heavy hand of government. September 11 did not do as much damage to the fabric of American society as we seem determined to so to ourselves. Is the Russia of the late Romanovs really our model, a selfish, superstitious empire thrashing toward self-destruction in the name of a doomed status quo?

We should ask ourselves why we have failed to persuade more of the world that a war with Iraq is necessary. We have over the past two years done too much to assert to our world partners that narrow and mercenary U.S. interests override the cherished values of our partners. Even where our aims were not in question, our consistency is at issue. The model of Afghanistan is little comfort to allies wondering on what basis we plan to rebuild the Middle East, and in whose image and interests. Have we indeed become blind, as Russia is blind in Chechnya, as Israel is blind in the Occupied Territories, to our own advice, that overwhelming military power is not the answer to terrorism? After the shambles of post-war Iraq joins the shambles in Grozny and Ramallah, it will be a brave foreigner who forms ranks with Micronesia to follow where we lead.

We have a coalition still, a good one. The loyalty of many of our friends is impressive, a tribute to American moral capital built up over a century. But our closest allies are persuaded less that war is justified than that it would be perilous to allow the U.S. to drift into complete solipsism. Loyalty should be reciprocal. Why does our President condone the swaggering and contemptuous approach to our friends and allies this Administration is fostering, including among its most senior officials. Has "oderint dum metuant" really become our motto?

I urge you to listen to America's friends around the world. Even here in Greece, purported hotbed of European anti-Americanism, we have more and closer friends than the American newspaper reader can possibly imagine. Even when they complain about American arrogance, Greeks know that the world is a difficult and dangerous place, and they want a strong international system, with the U.S. and EU in close partnership. When our friends are afraid of us rather than for us, it is time to worry. And now they are afraid. Who will tell them convincingly that the United States is as it was, a beacon of liberty, security, and justice for the planet?

Mr. Secretary, I have enormous respect for your character and ability. You have preserved more international credibility for us than our policy deserves, and salvaged something positive from the excesses of an ideological and self-serving Administration. But your loyalty to the President goes too far. We are straining beyond its limits an international system we built with such toil and treasure, a web of laws, treaties, organizations, and shared values that sets limits on our foes far more effectively than it ever constrained America's ability to defend its interests.

I am resigning because I have tried and failed to reconcile my conscience with my ability to represent the current U.S. Administration. I have confidence that our democratic process is ultimately self-correcting, and hope that in a small way I can contribute from outside to shaping policies that better serve the security and prosperity of the American people and the world we share.


http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/27/international/27WEB-TNAT.html?pagewanted=print&position=top
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 03:25 pm
What? A Cliff's Notes? Who me?
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 03:27 pm
Well, that's an honorable approach, if nothing else.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 03:47 pm
BillW, It was heartening to see somebody with a conscience, who would rather lose their jobs than live with a administration that seeks to destroy American Ideals. Thanks for sharing. c.i.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 04:44 pm
I 'm afraid that this is a very bad loss for the USA, even though it is truly consciencious!
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 05:06 pm
Take the 'War'-on- Iraq IQ Test
Do you know enough to justify going to war with Iraq?

*********************************

1. Q: What percentage of the world's population does the U.S. have?
A: 6%

2. Q: What percentage of the world's wealth does the U.S. have?
A: 50%

3. Q: Which country has the largest oil reserves?
A: Saudi Arabia

4. Q: Which country has the second largest oil reserves?
A: Iraq

5. Q: How much is spent on military budgets a year worldwide?
A: $900+ billion

6. Q: How much of this is spent by the U.S. ?
A: 50%

7. Q: What percent of US military spending would ensure the essentials of life to everyone in the world, according to the UN?
A: 10% (that's about $40 billion, the amount of funding initially
requested to fund the US retaliatory attack on Afghanistan ).

8. Q: How many people have died in wars since World War II?
A: 86 million

9. Q: How long has Iraq had chemical and biological weapons?
A: Since the early 1980's.

10. Q: Did Iraq develop these chemical & biological weapons on their own?
A: No, the materials and technology were supplied by the US government, along with Britain and private corporations.

11. Q: Did the US government condemn the Iraqi use of gas warfare against Iran?
A: No

12. Q: How many people did Saddam Hussein kill using gas in the Kurdish town of Halabja in 1988?
A: 5,000


13. Q: How many western countries condemned this action at the time?
A: 0

14. Q: How many gallons of agent Orange did America use in Vietnam?
A: 17 million.

15. Q: Are there any proven links between Iraq and September 11th terrorist attack?
A: No

16. Q: What is the estimated number of civilian casualties in the
Gulf War?
A: 35,000

17. Q: How many casualties did the Iraqi military inflict on the western forces during the Gulf War ?
A: 0

18. Q: How many retreating Iraqi soldiers were buried alive by U.S. tanks with ploughs mounted on the front?
A: 6,000

19. Q: How many tons of depleted uranium were left in Iraq and Kuwait after the Gulf War?
A: 40 tons

20. Q: What according to the UN was the increase in cancer rates in Iraq between 1991 and 1994?
A: 700%

21. Q: How much of Iraq 's military capacity did America claim it had destroyed in 1991?
A: 80%

22. Q: Is there any proof that Iraq plans to use its weapons for anything other than deterrence and self defense?
A: No

23. Q: Does Iraq present more of a threat to world peace now than 10 years ago?
A: No

24. Q: How many civilian deaths has the Pentagon predicted in the event of an attack on Iraq in 2002/3?
A: 10,000

25. Q: What percentage of these will be children?
A: Over 50%

26. Q: How many years has the U.S. engaged in air strikes on Iraq?
A: 11 years

27. Q: Were the U.S and the UK at war with Iraq between December 1998 and September 1999?
A: No

28. Q: How many pounds of explosives were dropped on Iraq between December 1998 and September 1999?
A: 20 million

29. Q: How many years ago was UN Resolution 661 introduced, imposing strict sanctions on Iraq 's imports and exports?
A: 12 years

30. Q: What was the child death rate in Iraq in 1989 (per 1,000 births)?
A: 38

31. Q: What was the estimated child death rate in Iraq in 1999
(per 1,000 births)?
A: 131 (that's an increase of 345%)

32. Q: How many Iraqis are estimated to have died by October 1999 as a result of UN sanctions?
A: 1.5 million

33. Q: How many Iraqi children are estimated to have died due to
sanctions since 1997?
A: 750,000

34. Q: Did Saddam order the inspectors out of Iraq?
A: No

35. Q: How many inspections were there in November and December 1998?
A: 300

36. Q: How many of these inspections had problems?
A: 5

37. Q: Were the weapons inspectors allowed entry to the Ba'ath Party HQ?
A: Yes

38. Q: Who said that by December 1998, " Iraq had in fact, been disarmed to a level unprecedented in modern history."
A: Scott Ritter, UNSCOM chief

39. Q: In 1998 how much of Iraq's post 1991 capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction did the UN weapons inspectors claim to have discovered and dismantled?
A: 90%

40. Q: Is Iraq willing to allow the weapons inspectors back in ?
A: Yes

41. Q: How many UN resolutions did Israel violate by 1992?
A: Over 65

42. Q: How many UN resolutions on Israel did America veto between 1972 and 1990?
A: 30+

44. Q: How many countries are known to have nuclear weapons?
A: 8

45. Q: How many nuclear warheads has Iraq got?
A: 0

46. Q: How many nuclear warheads has US got?
A: over 10,000

47. Q: Which is the only country to use nuclear weapons?
A: the US

48. Q: How many nuclear warheads does Israel have?
A: Over 400

50. Q: Who said, "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter"?
A: Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr
*********************************
Charles Sheketoff,
Executive Director
OregonCenter for Public Policy
PO Box 7,
Silverton, OR97381

The United States Government will spend more on the military in fiscal
year 2003, than all the rest of the countries on Earth combined. Current
expenditures are 437 billion and our past obligations are 339 billion,
this equals 776 billion. 46% of our Taxes go to the Military Industrial
Complex http://www.warresisters.org/piechart.htm This figure doesn't
even begin to account for all of the off-budget, black projects, homeland
security nor the 40+ billion the United States Government will spend on
intelligence in 2003.

Is war justified? c.i.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 05:06 pm
i can hardly wait to see what spin the White House puts on this!
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 05:15 pm
Quote:
18. Q: How many retreating Iraqi soldiers were buried alive by U.S. tanks with ploughs mounted on the front?
A: 6,000





Huh?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 05:40 pm
sumac, Sorry, but I only copy and pasted this Q&A sent to me by a friend. Your question about the 6,000 sounded too large for me too, so I did a search, and found the following.

http://www.casi.org.uk/discuss/2000/msg00003.html

I hope this is helpful. c.i.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 05:48 pm
dyslexia says:

Quote:
i can hardly wait to see what spin the White House puts on this!


I'm assuming you are talking about the ambassadors resignation. The WH won't even mention it - you know that. The only way it will be brought up is by the lilly livered press crops to Ari Fleisher, and that is very doubtful. It's too revealing!
0 Replies
 
perception
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 06:25 pm
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 06:27 pm
Arrogant and non constructive!!!!!!!!!!!

And I do like old Charles---------still, arrogant and non constructive
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 06:32 pm
The resignation letter from the ambassador is EXACTLY CORRECT. Finally, someone related to State has the intelligence, foresight, and balls to speak out. If Powell were to add his voice, he'd be justifiably equated with Lincoln, and that would be no temporary legacy. We really ought to get this letter to every major paper and news outlet in North America, and push until they print it - I'll handle Canada.

Sumac

Re your last post...I know who you are, my dear. I'm terribly sorry if my posts seemed vituperative and directed at you. Vituperative they were, but the direction wasn't towards you. This thread (and others on the forum) have displayed god knows how many pages related to sand temperatures and optimum operating conditions for tanks, or devoted to the logistics of getting soldiers into the field, etc etc etc....and relatively bugger all to the blown up people who are at the end of Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz's goddamned egos, and Bush's pathetically uneducated mind. It's been a sorry damned performance.
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 06:39 pm
I found the Krauthammer piece very interesting, and based in reality.
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 06:42 pm
Blatham
Quote:
It's been a sorry damned performance.


I know you are Canadian, but are you sure your genes aren't British? Such an understatement.
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 06:50 pm
I don't think the Krauthammer piece is based in reality. It smacks of tremendous, jingoistic arrogance... and madness. But it's very much like the current American reality -- Me, Mine, Now!
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Feb, 2003 06:57 pm
There are eleven children playing in the playground, with one great big bully. Since two or three of them will not agree with the bully to play the game he wants to play, he threatens to go find others who will agree with him. Sound familiar? c.i.
0 Replies
 
 

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