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The US, The UN and Iraq

 
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 07:45 am
Oh, Gawd luv ya, Setanta. Laugh of the day...
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 08:04 am
Kara

It would be naive to omit this electoral calculation in the administration's agenda for proceding with the war, as truly truly ugly as that is. There was, recall, the not surprising observation by White House staffer DiIluio in Esquire last year..."What you've got is everything, and I mean everything, being run by the political arm. It's the reign of the Mayberry Machiavellis," Or there was the revalatory quote by Perle (if memory serves) that Bush had to procede or risk looking a wimp (paraphrased, but that was the point).

ps...on looking for that piece by DiIluio I entered " DiIluio Bush" into google and got as item one...an earlier post by myself right here.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 08:07 am
Setanta

I think Walter still not safe. One can easily imagine the folks at GM/Hummer (a militarily well-connected dealership) wishing to take out the evil opposition.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 08:48 am
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2003/02/07/do0702.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2003/02/07/ixopinion.html

Quote:
Benn - not Powell - made the case for war on Saddam
By Alice Thomson

(Filed: 07/02/2003)

... the question of whether to go to war with Iraq has been routinely addressed with an infantile anti-American rant. We've lost our sense of what this war is really about. It has become a referendum on George W. Bush, rather than on Saddam. The interview forced us to choose: whom do we trust - this dictator or America? It was easy.

The anti-war rhetoric assumes, offering far less evidence than Powell, that Bush's motivation is malign. That he is out to avenge his father, he wants to control oil supplies, he's frustrated because he hasn't caught Osama bin Laden and his high-tech bombs will kill thousands of innocent children ...


A British take more favorable to Bush The Younger and The Current Administration.



timber
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 10:22 am
Timber


Yes, the Brits are a bit sensitive to having their intelligence incinerated. My wife is English and she flew into a rage when she heard about the interview from her cousin.
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 10:35 am
Blatham

I predict that Canada will jump right in behind North Korea just ahead of Iran on our list))))))))))
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 10:36 am
Careful, guy. Somebody's going to take that as a serious comment, you know.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 10:43 am
Canada has both oil and natural gas, um interesting
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 10:52 am
If David Letterman can say it why can't I------OK----it was supposed to be humorous just like the bit about Germany..............
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 12:17 pm
blatham, have you tried:

http://news.google.com/
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 12:18 pm
blatham, more to the point:

http://news.google.com/news?q=Diiulio+Bush&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&sa=n&oq=DiIluio+Bush
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 12:21 pm
Heart this morning an interview with Rumfeld's grand-aunt: he is not invited to visit her anymore. (She dislikes, however, as well that now old jokes are presented from that part of Germany, where the Rumsfelds live.)

I'm a little bit more concered about my safety now, although I live far away from Munich: "This Public Announcement alerts Americans to large demonstrations expected to occur in the city of Munich on February 7, 8 and 9, 2003. American citizens visiting or resident in Munich should exercise caution during this period. This Public Announcement expires on February 15." http://travel.state.gov/germany_announce.html
[12,000 are expected - 4,500 policemen (above the regulars on duty) plus a not published number of additional security forces.]
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trespassers will
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 12:27 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
dys, A man holding a gun or rifle is a threat - even when he seems to be aiming at another human. You don't shoot first, and ask questions later. That's not how democracies work. c.i.

Ci - Good point, though I don't think it takes us where you want it to. First, though it's a tangent, you keep throwing this idea of "how democracies work" into this equation. By definition, a democracy works however the majority of the people think it should work, which is why we are not a democracy. In a democracy, if 51% of the public thought you should shoot first, that would be the law of the land.

Now, secondly, we have not fired first. We are asking questions first. Surely you can see that. In fact, in case anyone's memory is still hazy on this point, Saddam fired first when he went into Kuwait and did not leave when asked to do so. Everything since has been an ongoing cease fire, contingent on his meeting certain obligations he refuses to meet. We stopped a war he started (and we were poised to finish), and he agreed to live with the sword of Damocles over his head. It is up to him, not us, to see that it does not fall. Whether or not we do respond militarily, we have the legal and moral right to do so on those grounds alone.

Lastly, I think I have shown reason in this discussion to question the notion that preventing war will save more lives than prosecuting the war. I'm surprised at the absence of any comment on this from you, given the protection of innocent lives seems to be your primary concern in this.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 12:49 pm
tres, I disagree. The majority of people of this country in the latest polls, over 60 percent, agrees with GWBush to a preemptive strike against Iraq. I still disagree. Just because a majority may agree to something does not make it right or ethical. c.i.
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 01:11 pm
I agree with your disagreement, Cicerone!
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 01:51 pm
Does anyone know, what's Ibrahim al-Marashi is doing now and about his actual reactions on the news?
(He has been the student, writing a thesis in 1991, which was used as document to be cited by the UK prime minister and Colin Powell as the basis for a possible war.)
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 02:03 pm
Walter, Isn't it more like what is Powell and Blaire doing now? Most people have changed their minds about the US preemptive strike against Iraq because of Powell's speech to the Security Council, and they are now 'convinced' that war is justified. Isn't that more frightening that conclusions can imminate from false information or old ones? c.i.
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ul
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 02:09 pm
Listen to an interview with Ibrahim al-Marashi


http://www.webactive.com/freespeech/
Powell Plagiarizes!
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 02:19 pm
Quote:
The only way that Bush's risky gamble could pay off and result in a decisive political victory for him would be Hussein's improbable last-minute capitulation to the unrelenting military pressure Bush is putting on Iraq. But that pressure works both ways. If Iraq doesn't give in, there will be equally unbearable pressure on Bush to use the troops he has deployed at great cost. A president who has put hundreds of thousands of troops into the field is a bit like someone who holds a hammer in his hand: everything starts to look like a nail.[/[/color]QUOTE]..from the editors of Newsday (excerpt...for full text go to
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/16086 )
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 02:28 pm
Quote:
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