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The US, The UN and Iraq

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 02:33 pm
blatham, I know this is serious business, but I just had to laugh at "everything starts to look like a nail." c.i.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 02:38 pm
Thanks for the link, ul!
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 02:39 pm
Quote:
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 02:44 pm
Quote:
Summary
The increasingly popular idea in Washington that the United States, by toppling Saddam Hussein, can rapidly democratize Iraq and unleash a democratic tsunami in the Middle East is a dangerous fantasy. The U.S. record of building democracy after invading other countries is mixed at best and the Bush administration's commitment to a massive reconstruction effort in Iraq is doubtful. The repercussions of an intervention in Iraq will be as likely to complicate the spread of democracy in the Middle East as promote it. The United States has an important role to play in fostering democracy in the region, but the task will be slow and difficult given the unpromising terrain and lack of U.S. leverage over key governments.
http://www.ceip.org/files/Publications/Democracy_PB20.asp?from=pubdate


Note: there will be a quiz on Tuesday
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 02:51 pm
blatham, We have become the "immediate gratification" society, and waiting for a few years for anything is not an option. c.i.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 02:53 pm
blatham: the question is, will the quiz involve Holocaost?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 02:57 pm
dys, The teacher just gave you a "c" for spelling. LOL c.i.
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Kara
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 02:59 pm
blatham, your two quotes above are excellent. I could have written the first one, myself!
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 03:10 pm
blatham, With my teeny brain, I was able to come to the same conclusion that "containment" is working. I guess my grey matter progressed by one notch - at the very minimum. Wink c.i.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 09:02 pm
One of the factors I find quite unnerving in this debate is the difference between the thoughtfulness of such pieces as above (there are LOTS if one goes looking) and the simplistic coverage by the common media (network tv particularly, but papers as well).

TV news is normally quite content to fill their broadcasts with whatever is cheap to obtain, easy to say in one minute, and dramatic. This serves the interest of politicians very well, and most particularly, the reigning administration who are provided with a 24 hour access to the public to repeat simplicities.
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 09:57 pm
Further containment is no longer an option after 12 years of containment has ended in failure.
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 10:28 pm
deleted
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2003 10:40 pm
perception, "Ended in failure?" It looks pretty successful to me; there's been no war and no dead people. That's pretty good in my books. c.i.
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cobalt
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Feb, 2003 03:32 am
Nick Denton's blog:
wednesday, february 5

Quote:
The real argument against war

The build-up to war on Iraq has been frustrating. The main reason: the debate has been an exercise in shadowboxing. Even supporters of the war know that the official rationale for war -- nukes, links with Al-Qaeda, disrespect for the UN -- is bogus. There is a powerful case -- involving the defense of Israel, security of oil supplies, and reform of the troublesome Middle East -- but mention of these is neither politic nor politically correct.

And the frustration with the quality of debate is only increased by the intellectual shambles of the anti-war movement. Read Julie Burchill, for a bloody dissection. For a stronger argument, here's Matthew Parris, yet another British columnist. I am not afraid the war will fail. I am afraid that it will succeed. I am afraid that it will prove to be the first in an indefinite series of American interventions. I am afraid that it is the beginning of a new empire...

The debate I would like to see: Hitchens, Reynolds and Wolfowitz v. Atrios, Henley and Parris.

A dove's guide: how to be an honest critic of the war [Matthew Parris via Reynolds]
Why we should go to war [Julie Burchill] #


The linked articles are terrific! Link to this blog and further active links given there:


Nick Denton's Blog

Interesting that this American is finding more of substance in writers from "other countries". Parris and Burchill are from the UK. One posted with the TimesOnline and the other with Guardian Limited. Great great links with each article.

http://sc.groups.msn.com/tn/69/60/CronesOnLine/a/1dc.jpg
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Feb, 2003 06:29 am
Cobalt

That little quote in your signature is a dilly. In case anyone missed it...
"We must become the owners, or at any rate the controllers at the source, of at least a proportion of the oil which we require."
- British Royal Commission, agreeing with Winston Churchill's policy towards Iraq, 1913
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Feb, 2003 06:32 am
ci

Yes, I loved that 'everything begins to look like a nail' line too.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Feb, 2003 06:40 am
Walter

Here's the info you requested on the the chap who's material was lifted by the Brits and praised by Powell... http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/08/international/europe/08BRIT.html
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Feb, 2003 06:55 am
Quote:
Iraq hawks are troubled by the failure of some Americans to fall in line behind President Bush after Wednesday's impressive performance by Colin Powell. Now that Powell has so clearly shown that Iraq has illegal weapons, they ask, how could anyone argue for continuing United Nations weapons inspections, rather than just fast forwarding to war? Actually, it's not as hard as you'd think.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2078269/
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Feb, 2003 07:27 am
I have only glanced over this discussion sporadically. I don't know if this specific aspect has been disected as yet. reason
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Feb, 2003 08:10 am
Edgar

something is wrong with the link, and I'm not sure which article at the scoop site you refer to.
0 Replies
 
 

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