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Blackwater

 
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 09:03 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
The US House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform released a report Monday noting that Blackwater fired 122 employees, more than one-seventh of its workforce in Iraq, in the past three years based on inappropriate behaviors involving alcohol, drugs, weapons and violence.

The report also reveals Blackwater has been involved in an estimated 1.4 shootings a week in Iraq since 2005.

Although private security firms are only authorized to use defensive force by the US State Department, Blackwater employees fired the first shots in more than 80 percent of the 195 incidents.

Link


Jesus Walt, they're in a war zone.... the fact that our own military has to hold their fire all the time has costs us major targests, possibly even OBL.... "Hold your fire everyone! Hold your fire! ........... Everyone? Hello? "
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 09:08 am
If our military has to hold their fire, then why shouldn't our private contractors? Don't you think it's possible that the aggressive and unaccountable behavior of Blackwater actually puts our soldiers at risk by creating a backlash? Iraqi's don't always know the difference between contractors and US military. And if I was an Iraqi who lost my family because Blackwater shot them as a punishment for driving too close to a convoy, you can bet your ass I'd become part of the insurgency.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 09:10 am
Holding fire is the reason we are still there.....
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 09:21 am
And premiums for private security services are high. Court documents in one of several lawsuits filed by families of Blackwater agents killed in Iraq suggest that its triggermen are paid $600 a day -- or more than $150,000 a year. By contrast, a Marine gunnery sergeant, with say 15 years experience and maybe a couple of tours in Iraq's Anbar province under his belt, would make about $43,000. That discrepancy could be even higher, according to a report released yesterday by the Democrats on the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee. The report cited a fee for each contractor of $1,222 a day or $445,000 a year and declared that a Blackwater guard is "over six times more than the cost of an equivalent soldier."

--Washington Post, 10/2/07
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 09:21 am
cjhsa wrote:
Holding fire is the reason we are still there.....


Let's examine this deeper: you're allegding that with indiscriminate fire, we would have pacified Iraq long ago - ostensibly, we aren't killing enough civilians to satisfy you?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 09:26 am
What does a civilian in Iraq look like?

http://progressives.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/burka.jpg
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 11:27 am
You are sick; cjhsa
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 11:28 am
Yeah, that's the ticket. Liberals despise me - I must be sick!

Laughing
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2007 03:02 pm
cjhsa wrote:
Yeah, that's the ticket. Liberals despise me - I must be sick!

Laughing


I would say that most liberals feel really sorry for you. And even sorrier for those close to you.
0 Replies
 
Halfback
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2007 07:09 am
Without going into the reasons for and the combat ramifications of "Rules of Engagement" let me simply point out that allowing the "bad guys" to fire first puts you at a tactical disadvantage. Hence we have, essentially, a defensive posture, which our troops abide by, and it costs them lives.

Hiring these thugs, unencumbered by rules of engagement, tactically allows them discretionary power to open the engagement by judgement. (Albeit proven poor at times.) i.e. Shot first, police up the brass afterwords. :wink: There is a significant difference in the tactical situation here. Blackwater exec bragged that they had never lost a "principal" (i.e. guarded person). Apparently that tactical difference works. DUH!

Bottom line, apparently the persons who have these thugs guarding them consider their posteriors too precious to rely on the same defence tactics we subject our troops to. In this case, then, what is good for the goose is NOT good for the gander.

Does anyone smell a ltttle hypocracy in that? Shocked

Halfback
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2007 07:33 am
JTT wrote:
cjhsa wrote:
Yeah, that's the ticket. Liberals despise me - I must be sick!

Laughing


I would say that most liberals feel really sorry for you. And even sorrier for those close to you.


How many times have I told you I am a moderate amongst my family and peers? We're the folks that the liberal f-tards on the coasts like to put up signs about that say "**** the Flyover States".

And we're proud of it.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2007 07:45 am
I'm interested in how you compare to your family and peers. On which issues do they take more extreme positions than you and what are those positions?
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2007 07:54 am
Probably the only one that I am further to the "right" on is gun ownership. That's because I've been trained by the best - Mr. Nugent.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2007 07:55 am
FreeDuck wrote:
On which issues do they take more extreme positions than you and what are those positions?


I'm wondering about their positions on other things that would lead you to say they are more extreme than you are. Something besides guns.
0 Replies
 
candidone1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2007 07:56 am
Quote:
The legal status of Blackwater and other security firms in Iraq is a subject of contention. Two days before he left Iraq, L. Paul Bremer signed "Order 17" giving all Americans associated with the CPA and the American government immunity from Iraqi law. A July 2007 report from the American Congressional Research Service indicates that the Iraqi government still has no authority over private security firms contracted by the U.S. government


Source

Quote:
CPA Order 17 is a law passed by the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq reducing the power of the Iraqi government to persue legal action against foreigners working with the CPA. Depending on interpretation, it either takes power away from the Iraqi government, giving it to the CPA, or it takes power from the Iraqi government and gives it to individuals claiming to work in the interest of the CPA to ignore the rule of law.


CPA Order 17 granted all foreign contractors operating in Iraq immunity from "Iraqi legal process," effectively granting immunity from any kind of suit, civil or criminal, for actions the contractors engaged in within Iraq.



Source
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2007 08:02 am
FreeDuck wrote:
FreeDuck wrote:
On which issues do they take more extreme positions than you and what are those positions?


I'm wondering about their positions on other things that would lead you to say they are more extreme than you are. Something besides guns.


Sorry Duck. Ain't biting at your bait.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2007 08:28 am
An Iraqi View of Blackwater Killings
An Iraqi View of Blackwater Killings
from McClatchy Baghdad Staffer
By E&P Staff
Published: October 02, 2007 5:00 PM ET

For several months, E&P has been featuring some of the vivid entries from the Inside Iraq blog at the site for McClatchy's Washington bureau. Iraqi staffers for McClatchy's Baghdad bureau post entries there, but not under their full names, for security reasons.

http://washingtonbureau.typepad.com/iraq/

Here is the latest entry, concerning the aftershocks of the recent Blackwater killings there, from correspondent "Laith."

On the way to the morgue to get some details about the incident of Al Nosoor Square, We met a security contractors' convoy on the other side of the street. I told my colleague, the driver, "well brother, beware and don't do anything unexpected. Watch the guys carefully and watch the Iraqi army check point. We might be shot simply brother and Im sure you don't want that. We want to cover the story about dead people but we don't want to experience death. Remember brother, we have families and they are waiting for us."

I never imaged that the safety of others means our fears from being killed for nothing. It's a horrible feeling. It's a nightmare that will never end soon.

I don't know how to express my feelings when Leila my boss and I visited the man who lost his wife in the incident of Al Nosoor Square 13 days ago. I saw him fighting his tears and he didn't allow them to run away from his eyes. I could feel the difficulty he faced when he was talking. I could feel that he wanted to choose the best words to show his love to the woman who lived almost 40 years with him. When my boss asked him about the love story that ended with their marriage, he was speechless and he told her addressing us all, "its like your love and your love and your love".

I wished I can do something for him but I couldn't. He asked me for one thing. He said "you can bring me a copy for the newspaper that publishes my story, otherwise, I would feel that you cheated me". I apologized and said that I cant do that because the agency I work for is in the USA but I promised him to bring him a copy fro the story from the internet. The man accepted both my apology and offer.

Yesterday, I got a copy from the net and I went to his house. I saw the man. He looked even weaker than three days ago. He lost part of his life. The visit was very short. I said "well sir, I just want to give you this" and I gave him the copy of the story. I saw sad smile on his face. A smile said "Thank you for bringing the story of the death of my love."

When I was coming to work yesterday and while I was near the bridge that leads directly to one of the gates of the International Zone, I saw a convoy of one of the security contractors. I saw those men who hided their faces pointing their machineguns towards everyone while driving their four wheel vehicles moving fast. I accelerated my steps towards a close turn so if any shooting happen, I didn't want to be in the fight field.

An imaginary battle field was drawn quickly in my mind. A sad vision was moving in my head. I saw my body bleeding. I saw my family crying and my wife weeping. OMG. I can't see my lovely child again. Who would tell my family about my death? Ok. Back to reality, I'm alive and the convoy with the hidden faces guards had gone. Thanks Allah, nothing happened and I could see my family again. Only one question stayed in my mind. How can man kill innocent people so simply?
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2007 08:31 am
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2007 08:41 am
Blackwater Contractor Wrote Government Report on Incident
Blackwater Contractor Wrote Government Report on Incident
CNN
Tuesday 02 October 2007

Baghdad, Iraq - The State Department's initial report of last month's incident in which Blackwater guards were accused of killing Iraqi civilians was written by a Blackwater contractor working in the embassy security detail, according to government and industry sources.

A source involved in diplomatic security at the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad said a Blackwater contractor, Darren Hanner, drafted the two-page "spot report" on the letterhead of the Bureau of Diplomatic Security for the embassy's Tactical Operations Center.

That office - which tracks and monitors all incidents and movements involving diplomatic security missions - has outsourced positions to Blackwater and another private firm, the embassy source said.

A highly placed industry source said that Hanner, who was listed on the report as the TOC watch officer, was working for Blackwater at the time the report was written, just after the September 16 incident occurred. He was to rotate out of Iraq this past week, the source said.

The man who approved the report was Ricardo Colon, whom the embassy source identified as the embassy's deputy regional security officer. A State Department source confirmed a Ricardo Colon Cifredo works for the State Department in Iraq.

The deadly incident produced an outcry in Iraq and raised questions about the accountability of foreign security contractors in Iraq, who, under an order laid down by the U.S.-led occupation government, are not subject to Iraqi law for actions taken within their contracts.

Anne Tyrrell, a spokeswoman for Blackwater, emphasized that the State Department is doing its own investigation into the incident.

The FBI is sending a team of agents to assist the U.S. investigation at the State Department's request, FBI spokesman Richard Kolko said Monday.

Blackwater - which provides security to U.S. diplomats - says its employees responded properly to an insurgent attack on a convoy. The State Department "spot report" underscores that scenario and doesn't mention civilian casualties.

However, those accounts are at odds with what the Iraqis are saying.

A senior Iraqi National Police official participating in the Iraqi governmental probe of the shooting said the Blackwater gunfire was unprovoked and the guards fired randomly, killing several civilians and wounding others.

Tom Casey, deputy State Department spokesman, noted that a spot report "is a first-blush account of those on the scene" and that the "report has no standing whatsoever."

"It was not intended to be used as an analysis, investigation, review or any detailed assessment of the situation," Casey said. "To assert that (it is) is untrue," Casey said.

The embassy source said after the spot report was completed and approved, a State Department agent took sworn statements from the participants in the shooting.

The senior Iraqi police officer said that Blackwater team members were questioned by Iraqi police immediately after the incident and initially said they opened fire in response to a mortar attack. However, he said, they then changed their story at least twice during the 90 minutes they were held.

Erik Prince, the CEO of Blackwater, was to testify Tuesday before the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2007 10:31 am
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/iraq/story/19838.html

Quote:
Blackwater security guards who protect top U.S. diplomats in Iraq have been involved in at least seven serious incidents, some of which resulted in the deaths of innocent civilians, Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki said Wednesday.

Maliki didn't detail the incidents, which he said add to the case against the North Carolina-based security firm. Blackwater's license to operate here has been revoked while U.S. and Iraqi officials investigate a shooting Sunday that Iraqi officials now say left at least 11 people dead.

But Defense Ministry spokesman Mohammed al Askari told McClatchy Newspapers that one of the incidents was former Iraqi Electricity Minister Ahyam al Samarrai's escape from a Green Zone jail in December. Samarrai had been awaiting sentencing on charges that he had embezzled $2.5 billion that was intended to rebuild Iraq's decrepit electricity grid.

Another incident, Askari said, was the shooting death last month of a Baghdad taxi driver when Blackwater guards led a convoy the wrong way down a street. When the taxi driver failed to stop quickly enough as the convoy approached, the Blackwater guards opened fire, Askari said.

Maliki left no doubt that he had already made up his mind about Blackwater's culpability in Sunday's incident, which Blackwater has characterized as an ambush, but which survivors and witnesses have described as an unprovoked shooting spree.

The prime minister said Iraqi citizens were shot in "cold blood."

"This company must be called to account for these violations, because we don't allow them to kill Iraqi citizens in cold blood," he said. "The people and the Iraqi government are filled with anger and hatred after this crime."

U.S. Embassy officials remained silent on the circumstances of Sunday's shooting. Without security details, U.S. officials remained banned from traveling to Iraqi government offices or reconstruction projects outside the heavily protected Green Zone.

"We can't move," said embassy spokeswoman Mirembe Nantongo. "It's a situation we're going to be revisiting on a daily basis, and yes, it does have an impact on our operations, but hopefully we will move beyond this fairly soon."

"The embassy can work with the help of other companies" if it wants to continue aid and other programs, Maliki said.

Maliki's mention of other incidents was an indication of how deeply offended many Iraqi officials are by what they believe is the impunity with which Blackwater operates in Iraq. Under a regulation issued by the American authority that governed Iraq until 2004, U.S. security companies and their employees are not subject to Iraqi law.

"All these things are not acceptable," Askari, the Defense Ministry spokesman, said. "The Americans were surprised with the firm opposition from us, which forced the American government to send an apology through (U.S. Secretary of State) Condoleezza Rice. Maybe this will force them to reassess their work with such companies."

Askari didn't detail each of the seven incidents Maliki mentioned. But his inclusion of the Samarrai escape raised new questions about a strange and little-publicized incident of the war.

Until now, Iraqi officials hadn't named the private security company that they believe helped Samarrai, the only Iraqi cabinet official convicted of corruption, to escape from a jail that was overseen jointly by U.S. and Iraqi guards. He subsequently was spirited out of the country and is believed to be living in the United States.

The U.S. State Department made note of his escape in its December report on developments in Iraq, saying that "Iraq's Commission on Public Integrity (CPI) said they believed he fled with the help of members of a private security company."

But the accusation that Blackwater, which earned at least $240 million in 2005 from contracts to provide security to U.S. officials in Baghdad, assisted in his escape raises questions about what American officials might have known about the breakout.

A U.S. Embassy spokeswoman couldn't be reached for comment.

An off-duty Blackwater guard is also suspected in the December shooting death of a bodyguard assigned to one of Iraq's vice presidents. The guard was returned to the United States and no charges were filed.

Embassy spokeswoman Nantongo said the men involved in Sunday's shooting were still in Iraq and were expected to stay during the investigation.

Askari said that there was little doubt that the Blackwater guards fired first in Sunday's shooting. He said that Iraqi investigators have interviewed witnesses and survivors and that evidence in the investigation included video from cameras at the intersection.

U.S. officials have called the incident an "exchange of fire," and Blackwater said its guards were responding to an attack.

But survivors and witnesses have told McClatchy Newspapers that the Blackwater guards opened fire without provocation on a white car carrying a man, woman and child that had tried to edge to the front of traffic that had stopped as the convoy passed. The guards then strafed other stopped cars.

Government spokesman Ali al Dabbagh said Sunday's shooting might have been swept under the rug like previous incidents if the death toll hadn't been so high. He estimated that 23 people had been killed, though that number contradicted information from both the defense and interior ministries, which said that 11 had died.

"If this were a small thing, it would have just been incident No. 7," he said. "But the company should be liable for the mistakes that have happened."

(McClatchy special correspondent Hussein Kadhim contributed.)

McClatchy Newspapers 2007


You catch that bolded part?

Blackwater has been accused of helping an Iraqi embezzler break out of jail in Iraq, where he was being held on corruption charges.

Someone should really ask them about that one...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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