Baby's in black (lists) and I'm feeling blue.

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Okay. So Mo's got some issues. Those of you who have been with us for a while know those issues. I hope you know those issues because I am too, too tired to explain.

I thought we had dealt with most things and that I was prepared.

But since we've moved things have gotten nutty.

He's hitting kids. He's stealing things from other kid's houses. He's getting black listed.

I'm beside myself.

I'm frantic.

I'm depressed.

I don't know what to do.

I've talked. I've discussed. I've grounded. I"ve taken things away. Nothing seems to be working.

I wish I could undo the last few months: unmove, unchange, unthink.

But I can't.

So what now?

Help me if you can, I'm feeling down.

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hugs to boomer and mo

manly kind of hug/shake to mr b

moves are trying at the best of times, no real advice to offer but willing to listen

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aaawww, hugs to you boomer. Don't beat yourself up, kids act up at times for the darnest reasons, and they'll again become little angels just as fast.

Tell me, does he really know he's stealing? Kids sometimes take something
without much thought behind it. How did you handle his stealing so far?

Getting in fights and hitting is not acceptable, how does Mo get punished
for doing that?

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Re: Baby's in black (lists) and I'm feeling blue.

boomerang wrote:

But since we've moved things have gotten nutty.
I'm beside myself.
I'm frantic.
I'm depressed.
I don't know what to do.
I've talked. I've discussed. I've grounded. I"ve taken things away.......
Help me if you can, I'm feeling down.

I've pulled all those emotional descriptions from your own post.
He sees that what he does causes all of the above reactions from you.
Is he just looking for attention, but going about it all wrong because he's a kid?

I'm sure you devote much time and attention to him already, but is he looking for something else in the way of attention?
Maybe something he doesn't know how to express or vocalize?

Have you talked to a psychologist that specializes in young kids? A good therapist might be able to get Mo to verbalize about things that he can't with you. Sometimes a different perspective from an outsider can help.

just suggestions from someone who's been there and done that Smile

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if he's not adjusting to the move, he may be thinking, if i make myself unwelcome (ie: hitting and stealing) you'll have no option but to go back to more familiar surroundings

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Aw, poor Boomer, Poor Mo! Here's a teacher-in-training POV. At the start of each year, kids test boundaries. Right about now, we are seeing who is testing, who isn't, and where we need to take measures.

Here are some techniques:
* Deciding on clearly acceptable behavior - defining acceptable behavior (with him).
* Setting CLEAR expectations for acceptable alternatives to bad behavior (he should be part of the process. "What do you think would be proper behavior is someone bumps into by accident? NOT hitting, but...... Who would you tell to help you resolve the issue?") and expectations for consequences for failing to meet expectations.
* Be consistent, always, across the board (at home, at school, on play dates, with both mom and dad, etc).
* Make the 'punishment' meaningful. Don't take away TV if he doesn't want watch it.
* Focus on rewards for positive behavior. When he goes to a teacher instead of hitting a child, positive praise. When he returns a stolen article, positive praise. After so many instances of positive behavior he gets a bigger treat (ice cream, movies, whatever).

Give him lots of ways to succeed and lots of positive reinforcement. And, work with his teacher!

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Time for some professional assistance boomer. School councilor is probably the best place to start.

Until you can work out a strategy home is the best place for him school home nothing more nothing less until further notice.

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Re: Baby's in black (lists) and I'm feeling blue.

boomerang wrote:

Okay. So Mo's got some issues. Those of you who have been with us for a while know those issues. I hope you know those issues because I am too, too tired to explain.

I thought we had dealt with most things and that I was prepared.

But since we've moved things have gotten nutty.

He's hitting kids. He's stealing things from other kid's houses. He's getting black listed.

I'm beside myself.

I'm frantic.

I'm depressed.

I don't know what to do.

I've talked. I've discussed. I've grounded. I"ve taken things away. Nothing seems to be working.

I wish I could undo the last few months: unmove, unchange, unthink.

But I can't.

So what now?

Help me if you can, I'm feeling down.

Change makes these kids nuts. It operates on an unconscious level, so he's unlikely to understand why he is feeling shitty. Anger and hitting out is a frequent response for these kids when they feel bad.

That's just how it is.

My suggestions:

Empathise, empathise, empathise, empathise. reassure, soothe, wrap, try and make as many things the same as they were in the old place...maybe bring back some ould routines and practices that were helpful at the beginning. accept that he's having a regression, try simplifying his life as much as you can, be aware that he's gone backwards for a while and don't expect him to handle things that he could before. Move the boundaries in...if he's not able to be at kids' houses safely, there needs to be a period where he isn't visiting...and I'd couch the grounding in a helping way.

"You are finding the move really hard to handle, and I know you are feeling bad. The stealing and hitting and stuff you've been doing is telling me that. It's my job to help you feel safe and ok, and I know you're not feeling ready to do lots of stuff outside the home right now, so we are going to focus on getting you feeling better before you start doing stuff like playing at other kids' houses right now. It's ok to feel bad and angry, but it isn't ok to hurt and steal from other people. We are going to work together to help you feel ok again."

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Thank you dj... and you might be onto something -- he desperately wants to move back to the old house after what seemed like a good adjustment to the new.

CJane -- when he fights his world shrinks down to nothing but me and the immediate surroundings. Pretty much everything stops.

happycat-- Mo has had some therapy. Unfortunately, our new insurance, much like our old insurance, doesn't think much of mental health, especially when it comes to kids. I keep pushing but.... <sigh>....

Thank you, little k. Those are some good tips. I think I do a pretty good job of doing those things (my new neighbors may disagree). It keeps getting harder instead of easier around here so I don't know.

I don't think I'm a bad parent.

But I guess I get to the point where I wonder if I might be the one who is wrong....

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boomerang wrote:

when he fights his world shrinks down to nothing but me and the immediate surroundings

I think he's telling you exactly what he needs - you and a very small, tight circle of love and comfort.

There's nothing wrong with giving him that small, tight comfort space for a while. Bundle, wrap, snuggle - make things small and as unstimulating as he can - no new projects/new art/new music. Keep things as they are, and help him cocoon. You can both work on expanding his world again later.

Mo's got some particular issues, but he's also got the 'stuff' that a lot of kids have trouble with. Moving, the beginning of a school year ... some kids thrive on it ... some don't.

Try to remember that a lot of what is happening is normal - as littleK has pointed out - they're working on a lot of this with lots of kids as the school year starts.

Can you put off the arrival of the new puppy for a little while? Just be the 'regular' family for a bit.

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Does the school board offer any support services for kids like Mo?

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Boomer - you ARE NOT A BAD PARENT!

Empathy, like dlowan said is very important (and like Beth said, too).

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Boomer--

Quote:

I don't think I'm a bad parent.

But I guess I get to the point where I wonder if I might be the one who is wrong....

You aren't a bad parent. You're a parent who is severely stressed and starting to fray a little bit around the edges, but you're not a Bad Parent.

When Mo entered your full-time circle of love, he'd already been damaged. As a result he developed some survival techniques which are exhausting for you and non-productive for him.

Before the move he was a kid with full time needs. Now you're both on overtime and Moms do not get paid or comped for overtime.

You're the sort of Mama Tiger who will empathize with and defend and protect Mo until all the cows come home and all the Great White Hunters are Winos on Skid Row.

Right now you need a little cosseting and pampering and mothering. Can your mother come for a visit? Can Mr. B. afford a little time away from his business for a romantic evening? Can you exploit some of the time Mo's in school for some projects you want to do?

You're important. Pregnant mothers "eat for two". Your mental health is going to have to stretch over two-three people until Mo accepts the inevitable.

Continue worrying about Mo and spend at least 45 minutes every day pampering yourself. Even Mama Tigers make time for stretching and grooming and crunching juicy bones.

As for Mo, Martial Arts lessons have been suggested in the past. This might be the time for Mo to start. Remember he gets not only the notion of self-defense and physical exercise and release, but the ideas of self control and coiled power and the Wisdom of the East.

I have vague memories of a television serial about...Bruce Lee?...are those shows available on video tape? They might whet Mo's appetite.

If all else fails, hire a temporary beefy Mary Poppins--raid the Disney warehouse, if you must-- and come east for a vacation. I can pick you up at the airport or meet you at the diner down the road.

Hold your dominion.

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Excellent advice here, can't really think of anything to add... I especially like the ideas of looking for free professional help (as in through the school) if you can't afford the other kind, and ehBeth's and dlowan's advice about taking things small and safe as possible.

As you know, this was a sucky time for me and sozlet too (moving and its aftermath). As in, while certainly Mo has his issues, for a lot of kids it's plain sucky, issues or no. And as littlek said, starting school -- especially a brand-new school -- has its own set of challenges.

That doesn't mean it's any easier to take, though. Big hugs.

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I hated moving.

My family moved several times whilst I was in school.

I hated trying to fit into a new peer group.

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Thank you all for the advice and support.

Mo really seemed to be adjusting well. Things were going really good. Then things just went nuts. The hitting thing I've dealt with before so I feel prepared to deal with that. The stealing thing is something completely new and I'm really unsure what it's all about. Also new are these bizarre, panic tantrum things over anything and everything. He spent the better part of an hour the other day screaming about a piece of soggy cardboard. Nothing would calm him down.

That's when I circled the wagons. We mostly stayed home doing things around the house for two days. Then we ventured out to explore a new park - just me and him. We had fun and ran off some steam but when it was time to leave there was a huge scene - BIG defiance, HUGE anger.

Recircle the wagons. Get things calm.

Then yesterday he was playing in neighbor girl's yard with neighbor girl and he stole one of her hot wheels. He wasn't even there 5 minutes. I wasn't more than 20 feet away.

Recircle the wagons.

As to the puppy -- Diamond wasn't supposed to come home until today but (brilliant me) I decided to surprise Mo after school yesterday by picking Diamond up early.

Really though I don't regret it. Mo needs a friend who'll like him even when he's been naughty and Diamond has stayed glued to Mo's side.

There is no doubt that mommy needs some "me" time and with Mo in school full days now I'm getting a little. It's nice. I had really forgotten how lovely quiet can be.

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Circle the wagons. You've got it down. This too shall pass.

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Students start new school years sort of scared. They don't know what the new teacher will be like, they don't know what is expected of them for the new grade level, they need to get used to the long days all over again. They stay subdued for a while. I've witnessed similar timing, Boomer, in the class I'm in. Quiet good obedient (I hate that word) children.

By the end of yesterday everything sort of fell apart - and not just in our classroom. The kids had started feeling more comfy, but the teachers were in a false state of security inre classroom discipline.

Try teaching Mo the difference between borrowing and stealing......?

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Dear god. I get stressed out when Yaya or Keetah are a little defiant.

You seem to be one of the best parents I know. Trust yourself; things settled down with Mo before, and they'll settle down again.

Welcome back, btw.

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Boomer--

Remember Squirrel Boy?

Mo's trying to stockpile security and happiness--and the rights of a previous owner simply aren't in his rule book.

Unfortunately being related to an unhappy kid in a klepto state is very shame-making for mommies.

Your post reminded me of an article in last week's New Yorker. It isn't on line, but here is the abstract.

Quote:

Jerome Groopman, "The Colic Conundrum," The New Yorker, September 17, 2007, p. 46

Keywords
Colic; Babies; Illnesses; Chase, Amanda; Pediatrics, Pediatricians; Crying; Twins ANNALS OF MEDICINE about colic. Amanda Chase gave birth to twin girls last September, but by the time the babies were three weeks old they were crying several hours a day. Amanda suspected they had colic, a poorly understood condition whose main symptom is frequent, inconsolable crying. Her pediatrician advised her that "nothing really helps" relieve colic. Describes the history of colic. Mentions Thomas Phaer. During the early nineteen-hundreds, theories about colic proliferated. Describes the research done in the fifties by Yale pediatricians Edith Jackson and Morris Wessel; Wessel's criteria for diagnosing colic are still widely used. In 1997, Philip Zeskind and Ronald Barr found that colicky infants produced cries higher in pitch than regular babies. . For decades, pediatricians have assured parents that they should regard colic as little more than a passing nuisance. Mentions William Spears, the founder of "attachment parenting." There's little evidence that physical closeness or maneuvers can soothe a colicky infant, and such advice may simply make exhausted parents feel worse. The writer met with Dr. Barry Lester, director of the Brown Center for the Study of Children at Risk. Lester regards colic as a behavioral disorder that afflicts the entire family. In the early seventies, Lester spent two years in Guatemala studying infant malnutrition and crying. Lester tells parents that they need to teach the babies to soothe themselves and to "self-regulate." The writer met Juliana, a Guatemalan woman, and her eight-week-old daughter, Maria, at the clinic. They were meeting with Pamela High, the medical director of the clinic, and Jean Twomey, a psychiatric social worker. Lester observed them through a one-way window. Over the next hour and a half, Juliana repeatedly picked Maria up in a futile effort to soothe her. Lester speculates that many colicky infants are so sensitive to stimuli that physical contact with their parents is unlikely to soothe them. Mentions studies of the !Kung San tribe, in Botswana. Ronald Barr cited recent research by Ian St. James-Roberts, of the University of London. Lester believes that some colicky infants may be at risk of developing behavioral problems as children. The most substantial data in support of Lester's claims comes from "The Finnish Family Competence Study Project," by researchers at the University of Turku, in Finland. Still, research on the long-term effects of colic on infants and their parents is preliminary. Amanda Chase's twins finally got over their colic in early March, when they were about six months old.

The New Yorker's archives are not yet fully available

Last week when Mo was kicking and screaming and carrying on about a piece of soggy cardboard you commented:

Quote:

Nothing would calm him down.

For the next couple tantrums can you try ignoring him--let the tantrum be his problem rather than your problem? Let him "soothe himself" and "self-regulate"?

I don't mean abandon him or allow him to hurt himself or the house--or a neighbor child. I mean, give him space and let him rip.

Save your concern and patience for a situation where concern and patience help.

Hold your dominion.

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Baby's in black (lists) and I'm feeling blue.

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