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Wed 19 Sep, 2007 03:17 pm
What's happening to my marriage? My husband & I met in school when we were 12 years old. We didn't start dating until we were 20 years old. We're now 30 and have been married for 6 years next Saturday. We have a 7 month old son.
I come from a weird family. Mom is gay but stayed in a loveless marriage with my dad "for the kids". Dad had an extremely difficult time showing emotions & affection even to his kids. I played mommy to my younger sister since my folks were so out of whack. I had to grow up fast. Anyway I never wanted to get married. Never thought a marriage could last. But then my husband changed all of that. He made me believe in love & marriage and so I trusted in US and we got married. We've always been the best of friends, talk about everything, have fun together, just perfect
so I thought. Of course there were arguments here & there but all in all we've been in love through out the relationship.
One of the things that helped me trust that our marriage could last was the fact that neither of us wanted children. Myself especially. Becoming a mother was my biggest fear since I could remember. A couple of years ago we both started to have a change of heart and decided we did in fact want to consider making a family. I was skeptical, not so much about being a mother anymore but about making a family that we could potentially ruin in the future like my folks had ruined my family. In the end I trusted my husband. He made me feel safe in starting a family with him. So we got pregnant and I miscarried. I thought it was a sign I just didn't know what the meaning of the sign was. The loss of the pregnancy brought us closer than we had ever been. It solidified my trust and desire to have a family with my best friend, my lover, my husband. So we immediately got pregnant again. Upon the birth of our son I fell in love with my husband all over again for all new reasons. He was just so amazing with our baby and he was so loving towards me. He took care of me in ways I never thought I would let someone take care of me. He bathed me and dressed me and tended to my c-section incision. I was embarrassed but he made me feel that it was the least he could do after what I had been through to make us a family. We were so in love.
In about June things were starting to get pretty stressful for my husband at work. They were short handed and he had to step up and take on more responsibilities. He came home one night and told me "Things are going to be hard. I'm going to be stressed and anxious and uptight. I'm going to want to take it out on you. But please just know that it is not you it is work and once we've hired more help things will be better again." I took what he said to heart. I wanted to be the understanding wife.
Sure enough he was working more & more and getting agitated easier and easier. One night he got home from work late and I used his laptop to look online for a highchair and when I typed in walmart.com a porn site came up. So I told him thinking he would think it was just as weird as I thought it was. Well he didn't. He got upset and thought I was sneaking around trying to find out if he had been viewing these sites on his own. He made a smart comment to me and I returned it to him and well he blew up. He was enraged and I actually got scared of him for the first time in my life. He didn't do anything to me but he reacted in a way I was not familiar with. Since then he started working even later nights and disappearing over night and drinking far too much. I kept chalking it up to work. I mean he had warned me this would happen. But then a couple of months ago he says he doesn't know if he is in love with me anymore. He says he loves me but he doesn't think we're in love. That we might be in it for the baby. That he doesn't see me as his wife but as his son's mother. That he can't make love to me because of this and that he's been viewing porn & masturbating constantly because of it. He says that he resents me for arguments we've had from 10 years ago. He says he doesn't feel like he's my husband anymore and when he's been out he's not behaving as though he is married. He claims he hasn't cheated on me but has been in situations that a married man should not be in. I could go on and on. He says neither of us are important anymore only the baby is. The doesn't know how to make himself feel like our family (the 3 of us) are important he feels like our entire existence should revolve around our son.
Well a few weeks ago I told him he couldn't come and go as he pleases and I packed all of his belongings and left them in the living room for him and asked him to leave. A few days later he came home to visit our son (while I was at work) and he left me a note that read "I will fix this. I will not do anything else to damage things more than I already have." I think well maybe he's beginning to see the light. I was wrong. He's been flip flopping since then.
Sunday night we sat & talked he said he wanted to come back home and take it one day at a time. He wants to try to work it out even thought he doesn't think it can be. I'm sitting there thinking how can he think things are beyond repair? We've been together for 10 years and now after a few bad months (albeit very bad months) he can't see a light at the end of the tunnel?
He's been home for only a few days but I feel like I'm living with a stranger. He's cold & distant and I'm not used to that. I wake up crying and go to sleep crying (not around our son). I don't know how much longer I can take this. I don't want to give up but how do I keep up hope if I feel like he has none? I'm at my whit's end and I need some kind of clarity or at least outside opinions as everyone in our family that knows of our troubles is convinced he's going through a midlife crisis and all will be fine. I truly don't know if it will be anymore.
I am so confused!!! What is happening to our marriage?
First off, iguanamama, welcome to A2K. Thank you for laying things out so clearly.
A few things. First off, counseling is the place to be. He certainly needs it and you should be there, too. Even if he doesn't want to come, even if he refuses and thinks it's stupid, go anyway.
Second, having a child changes things. That's just the nature of it, and since beforehand you were on the fence about kids it kind of makes sense that he would have (please don't think I'm being flip about this) a kind of buyer's remorse. He may be thinking that making your son the sole possessor of first place in your world is the way that things have to be. I, personally, don't have children, but of course I know plenty of people who do. And, while they love their kids, they still love each other. Caring for children does not get in the way of caring for one another, or at least it shouldn't.
Third, I suspect that his dealing with his child and his marriage are learned behaviors from when he was a child. What's his parents' marriage like? Are they still living? Still together? If he feels that his parents stopped having affection for each other after he (and any siblings he may have) was born, perhaps that's how he saw things at home. But he may not be right about that. As you are well aware, parents do not show their entire relationship to their children. His parents may have been very affectionate in their private moments. If his folks are still alive, and if that's the case, it may not be a bad idea for one of them to talk to him and show him that he was brought up successfully even though sometimes his folks were not focusing 100% on him.
Fourth, his work stress is obviously affecting his judgment. Is there any way he can get out of it? Take a vacation, even a short one? Hire temporary help? I'm unclear as to what he does for a living and what his role is. If he's the chief and not the indian he can do more to change things, of course. But if he's the indian he can change things, too, even if all he does is vent to his boss or even look for another job. He can also, if his company has it, speak with whatever wellness center or mental health professional within the company. Many companies offer free stress counseling. It may be something to look into.
Finally, one thing you did not make clear but which may be happening is that he may be spiraling into addiction. Whether it's sex addiction or alcoholism or drug abuse, it's still not a pretty thing and of course any of those things carries its own special brand of hazards. If it is alcoholism, even if you are unsure, you can get to Al-Anon yourself and learn more about coping with what's happening. If it's drug addiction there are similar services in most communities but even Al-Anon should be of some help. If it is sex addiction you can speak with your own doctor, even just your GP.
Has he been violent to you or the baby? Has he been emotionally or verbally abusive to either of you? If so, there is, of course, social services but I suspect you want to try to salvage things before going down that road. I understand that, but of course your son's and your safety and well-being need to come first.
You sound very willing to try to make things work, and I hope it works out for you.
Thanks for the welcome Jespah!
The day he told me he didn't think he was in love with me any longer he said there was no way he was going to go to counseling. I hadn't even mentioned it, he beat me to the punch. When I let him back in on Sunday I told him that one of the conditions of him returning home was that if we both saw that we were headed in the right direction and getting along better that he would have to agree to consider counseling. He agreed.
His parents are still married & have been for over 35 years. They are very affectionate and seem to be in love even now. (I just saw a hickey on my mother in-laws shoulder last week!) He refuses to speak to anyone in our family. He says he doesn't want to hear from every one how he is wrong. He's even shut his brother out which is far beyond normal as they are very, very close. I tell him he doesn't realize the damage it could cause our sons to be raised in a broken home because he has no idea what it's like. I do (which is why I had such a fear of making a family myself to begin with). His father always says how much not growing up with his father still affects him to this day.
I'm not sure If it is that he cant or just that he won't take a vacation. They have since hired help but they are in training and so he still bears most of the responsibility. He has vented or so he claims but since I'm not there I'm not sure why there haven't been any resolutions. He just last night talked about looking for another job and even mentioned someone from out of state that is very interested in hiring him. Big shocker to me I had no idea he was entertaining the idea of leaving the state! We moved to this state and slowly but surely got most of our families from both side to follow. Now to just want to up and leave? Very out of the ordinary.
You are right he is spiraling into alcoholism. He drinks daily and sometimes all alone in the yard until past midnight. He's taken up smoking again since he's been out of the house. He had given it up years ago. I'm sure he is not doing drugs.
He has never been violent or abusive by any means to our baby. He is so gentle & playful with him. He hasn't been with me either although that blow up we had did frighten me. He has since told me that he thought himself capable of hitting me that night but the thought of the baby stopped him. That's the first time he's ever gotten like that ever.
I am very willing as long as he is too but at this point I'm not sure he is.
He just called me to say that he was not going to stay at home tonight because he feels strange just being there. He said he loved seeing me & the baby interacting. He said he had missed that. I asked if he didn't love or miss me anymore. He said he did but when I asked then why he was giving up so quickly being that he has only been home for a couple of days & why he doesn't "let me in"? He said he didn't know why.
I miss him & I miss us. I miss our affection
I cant understand how this isn't killing him like it is me?
Jespah said everything very well, and I'd like to very strongly second the part about you going to counselling without your husband if he won't go.
I have no insight to give other than that you realize his actions are a reflection of him and not of you. Remember that. You sound like a loving, intelligent, caring woman. Remember that, too.
It sounds like he's miserable and almost likes being miserable. Like it justifies the drinking, so he continues it, whether it's being miserable at work or at home. The not wanting to hear he's wrong part of it is very telling. Essentially, he's conceding that's he is wrong, but dammit all to hell, drinking is more important than love, family, work, community, self-esteem or even good old-fashioned being right. Drinking, it seems, is becoming of primary importance in his ever-shrinking world.
Since there is some help at his office, then he should be seeing an end in sight. You won't be able to go to his boss directly, but you may be able to find a way to go with him, and just have the boss himself say, We have help right now, you're stressed, why don't you take a vacation for a few days. Don't worry, your job is secure.
My boss, I know, would do that, and my husband's boss probably would, too. But not everyone will, so you'd need to figure out if that was practical.
He (your husband) may also simply need or want a break from life. You said that he told you he likes seeing you interact with your son. How involved is your husband with parenting? Is he into it, or is he detached? Or does he seem to be in the process of detaching himself?
Since he has refused counseling (and this doesn't mean you can't ask him about it again, but of course try not to nag him about it), you can, of course, go alone. And you can also see if he'll see at least his GP or a clergyman. A lot of people still see a social stigma attached to psychological counseling but will be okay with going in for a "checkup" or to have a talk with their parish priest or the equivalent in your faith, if you have one. One thing about seeing his GP is that there's a small possibility that something organic is going on that's driving some of this. Certainly it wouldn't hurt to find out, even if it's just to rule that out.
The weekend is coming up soon. For some people, weekends are about partying. For others (me and my husband, eh, we're getting old), it's about resting and doing a few things, like buy food, that we can't get to during the week. For others it's about cramming in as many activities as possible. I suggest a low-key weekend, but one spent together. If you can get a babysitter (say, your inlaws, if they're willing), even for a few hours, that might be a good idea. Give him the tools to show him that a nonmiserable life without drinking is a helluva lot nicer than a miserable one with drinking. This is not a quick fix and it is not a cure. Alcoholism is very serious, of course. But what I'm suggesting here is not a fix but rather a setting up of some counterexamples in his life. Look, honey, do you remember September 22nd? We took a walk and looked at the foliage. It was beautiful and we had a good time. Not every day is perfect like that, but perfect days really do exist, and they're not beyond our reach.
With alcoholism, unfortunately, conventional wisdom is that hitting bottom tends to be the necessary jolt to bring the alcoholic back to the land of the living. So I wouldn't suggest doing this too much as that's also a means of enabling. Just, once or twice, here's our great life, no judgments, no strings attached. Then leave it alone.
As for him not coming home, personally I'd be yelling bloody murder and you may have to start doing the same because a quiet acceptance of it may also be a form of enabling. You're not equipped to be his counselor and his healer (and you need your own emotional support in this as well) but you may be able to drive him into that general direction. An alcoholic boyfriend I had in school did not get any help until I stopped being the one he could count on to chauffeur him around and get him out of jams. It was better for me, too, to stop being his crutch. You don't seem to be at that point yet (that's why I'm suggesting some honeymoon time, if you can swing it) but if it goes that far, you may have to do something like that.
somehow i don't think "yelling bloody murder" is going to help with a stressed overworked person that's becoming alcoholic. frankly, i'd be afraid to try it.
if "yelling bloody murder" means being otherwise firm, yeah, but just as it would matter what you yelled, it would matter what you're firm about. i'm sure that's why you came here for advice.
i don't know if anyone mentioned it, but you can always go to counseling yourself.
this isn't to say any of it is your fault, just that whether he goes or not, a counselor might be able to give you better advice than we can. might.
good luck.
Well, perhaps I worded it badly. I meant not just taking it.
Re: What's happening to our marriage!?!?
I agree with going to counseling yourself at least, to start with.
This kinda jumped out at me:
iguanamama wrote:He bathed me and dressed me and tended to my c-section incision. I was embarrassed but he made me feel that it was the least he could do after what I had been through to make us a family.
This is extremely de-sexualizing. I can easily imagine something like:
At some point in here he stopped thinking of you as a sexual being, but as mother-of-his-child. Mother-of-his-child, to his great chagrin, didn't turn him on. He then went elsewhere for gratification, and got used to it. However, he felt extremely guilty for this -- that he wasn't attracted to mother-of-his-child, that he should be able to override his sexual needs for the good of the family, but that he was unable to. And that everything else you describe springs from that guilt.
Note, this is just speculation, but it's something that makes sense to me, especially given his reluctance to see a counselor. In this scenario, he KNOWS he's wrong, he just doesn't believe the base problem can be changed -- he doesn't think mother-of-his-child will ever be sexy to him, at least not for a long time. And sexy is important, more important than he thinks it SHOULD be. Again, guilt, and resultant bad behavior.
Which goes back to -- see a counselor, even if on your own.
Sorry you're in this difficult position.
HI,
I just wanted to peek in and offer you some support. I know how rough this point in a marriage can be. My ex and I were in limbo for 2 years before our divorce.
I found counseling extremely helpful, although it took me a second counseler to find the right one for me.
Also, it sounds like your husband could use some counseling whether for himself or for the marriage. I hope he sees this reality and makes the choice to go.
Jespah, I think you are right about him liking being miserable. I'm just so tired of his "Poor Me" attitude. I've been trying for some time now to find a way to be able to get him to let me help him with his work situation but since we can't even be in the same house together I'm just not sure how to go about doing that. He is very weird about his job. Even though he works for a very large company I do know that he has had conversations previously with the Owner & VP but I just feel like he doesn't want to show them that he is "weak" in anyway.
You are also right about him wanting a break from life. That's why I told him to leave the house. I thought maybe if he's out there alone it will make him realize that it's not all it's cracked up to be. Maybe he'd miss his family & home? Up until a couple of months ago he was very involved with his son. Since this has all happened he is very detached. He hardly ever sees him and when he does the baby is usually asleep (conveniently).
I am considering counseling for myself but I'm scared of just having another cry fest. I have never cried so much in all my life and I'm just so exhausted from it. My mom suggested him seeing a GP as well but in the 10 years we've been together he has not been to a doctor once. Our 6 year wedding anniversary is Sat. 9/22 and we had an appointment with our priest to discuss our sons christening, but I was also going to take the opportunity to talk about our problems as well. Well I think he figured that out because he the meeting has been rescheduled for 10/20.
My mom is an alcoholic and so this is mot my first experience with alcoholism. That is the scariest part for me because I promised myself I'd never live with an alcoholic again after I moved out from my parents home. So I've been waiting for him to reach rock bottom but I'm wondering how much lower can he hit?
I was planning to try to do something nice with him this weekend. Especially since it is our anniversary but after he said he wasn't coming home last night I'm not sure he'll "make an appearance" at our home. By the way he did come home last night at about 1am. I don't know why though. Change of heart? No where else to stay? I just don't know. I didn't wake him up before I left for work this morning to find out. I just didn't feel like dealing with anything so early and having yet another crappy day at work.
I was so beyond just being angry when he told me that he wasn't coming home last night. I cried the whole drive home from work. When I got home my mother in law said that he had already been there and picked up some clothes. She tried to talk to him and asked him what he wanted. He said he didn't know what was going to happen with us. She told him "People don't fall out of love over night. I saw how in love you 2 were when your son was born. How you took care of her
I know you love her." He didn't respond he just teared up and left. I was an emotional wreck and I don't like my son to see me like that so I had my mother in law take him to spend the night at her house to give me time to think things through alone. But now I'm feeling guilty for having to send my son away.
Sozobe, you don't know how much I agree with what you've said. I kick myself in the butt everyday for allowing him to see me so vulnerable and allowing him to see that private side of me. I am totally convinced that, that is what has caused him to no longer see me as his wife and only as the mother of his child. When I first started realizing this in May I immediately made changes to try to get back on track. I put the baby to sleep in his own room, I dieted & exercised to get back my pre-baby body (I've since lost 40 lbs and am thinner than before I got pregnant). Been wearing the sexy nighties to bed and would wake him up at 3 am to make love. I felt like things were getting back on track but I guess I was wrong. My efforts weren't enough I guess?
You are also right about him thinking there is no resolution to the base of our problems. He has told me that on more than one occasion. But where does that leave me? Why do I keep trying when he seems to have given up?
Now he's just finding anything to blame our problems on. You will all get a kick out of this one (I still can't get over it!).
We have 2 dachshunds that HE bought for me on Valentines 7 years ago. I am an animal lover. He knew this about me before we got married. When I got them, at the time, I thought they were the only babies I would ever have. WELL
. Now 7 years later he thinks the dogs are a problem in our marriage and that getting rid of them might help our problems. What kind of bullcrap reasoning is that? He knows how I feel about my dogs & about all animals in general (I'm always rescuing them) and he just wants to find anyway to hurt me more & more. He's beyond irrational and I am at my whit's end.
Thanks for your "ears" I don't know where else to turn at this point. Still not sure about the counseling thing even just for myself. I'll let you guys know
Quote:Still not sure about the counseling thing even just for myself. I'll let you guys know
Whatever you decide just know this, Counseling is not a sign of weakness. Some employers offer assistance with this also.
Yep, I agree with marty.
I'm not sure there's anything you can do beyond what you've already done, iguanamama. It sounds like at this point it's his journey. Sounds like guilt could be the basis of it, then it just keeps spiraling. If so, that's something he needs to deal with.
You can deal with how you react to his behaviors, though, and you can certainly deal with your emotions -- that's where a counselor can be really helpful.
Man, I'm sorry i'mama (I feel like calling you iggy, that's not meant to be disrespectful). And yeesh -- the dogs! -- they have about as much to do with the issues in your marriage than, well, than I do. The hot dogs are not the problem.
Don't feel guilty about handing over your son for the night. Hey, his grandparents, I'm sure, had a wonderful time with him (and thankfully they're supportive, which is terrific). And
you needed the break. A lot of this is about his feelings, his pain, his hurt, his state of mind, his yadda yadda yadda but in the end it's about
yours, too. You don't have to stop having feelings, opinions, needs, etc.
Crying at counseling, hey, it happens. And it's not the end of the world. You let it out some more, you push it out of you. Plus the counselor might be able to -- certainly better than we can -- give you some coping tools. The other main advantage is that they're there. They can hear inflections in your voice, and you can hear it in theirs, and we're just not able to do that from here. Able2know, yes. Able2hear, heh, not as much.
Thanks Jespah. No disrespect taken. Iggy sounds very cute and is the only term of endearment I've heard towards me in months so feel free. I only work Mon. - Thurs. so tomorrow I plan on thinking about the serious decisions I have to make in all aspects of my life. Counseling (for myself) being one of them. I dont have n internet connection at home right now so I might not be able to update y'all until Monday (if I go to my sisters house though I'll check in). I appreciate all of your advice & opinions more than you know. Hope you all have a nice weekend.
And you, too. Dunno what the weather will be by you but here it's supposed to be verra nice. Of course that means I will sleep through it.
No worries on any delays, Iggy.
Iggy--
I hope your weekend was restful and that you could sort some things out in your head.
Your husband is having a Mid-Life-Crisis--and he's keeping all his options open.
You are having none of the fun of kicking over the traces and all of the misery of watching the man you married behave like a selfish pig. Your life is on hold and your child is neglected while Mr. Mid Life Crisis considers his place in the universe.
"I don't think I'll come home tonight." Huh? What happened to "For better or for worse"?
Get yourself a counselor--and consider getting a lawyer.
He didnt come home Thursday. Friday I text him and asked why he couldnt man up and just tell me he wasnt coming back? He replied that he doesnt know what he wants. He says he wants to do whats right for our baby but he doesnt know what that is. He said he's scared of making the wrong decision.
I feel like if your contemplating staying for our baby's sake then that's not the right decision. Maybe he just doesnt want to admit that he doesnt love me anymore.
This weekend was pure hell for me. I started feeling anxious which really scares me because I've dealt with anxiety years past and even had to be medicated for it. I do not want to go down that path again!
So I decided to stop letting him hold all the cards. I text him this morning and said "I need to talk to you asap. Its an emergency."
He called back right away. I told him that I wasnt going to allow him to toy with our relationship any longer and that my health (emotional, mental & physical) is not his to f**** with. I told him since he isnt man enough to say it himself he'd left me no choice but to put an end to all of this.
He of course said he had been blaming me for all of our problems and that he finally realized that he is the reason we are where we are at right now. he said he now knows that he loves me & is still in love with me. He asked to come home to discuss everything and come clean.
As soon as he said come clean I realized what he meant. I asked if he had slept with someone else, he said no. I asked if he had kissed someone else, he said yes! He said it was some random woman at a bar & he didnt know who she was nor has he seen her again. He said the "friends" he was with stopped him because he was so drunk.
Now tell me how or why am I suppossed to believe that he didnt sleep with someone else? How can I ever trust him again? I don't. I actually feel hateful towards him. I mean here I've been the ever faithful loving supportive wife and for what?
Im losing it guys. Im really scared of where my mind is taking me and I am even more confused than ever.
I am not sure I want to save this realtionship anymore.
Iggy--
Honestly! "Do right by the baby"--if he knew what that was.
At least he remembers he has a baby--although he doesn't act as though he remembers.
Some people fall out of love--some people get kicked out of love by a partner who treats them unfairly.
See a counselor--head off the anxiety before it gets a grip.
Don't be anxious--be active.
Hold your dominion.
Proactive. You can do it!
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