tree hugging hippies, that's what they are. every last one of'em!
A friend of mine in GA had a pitbull who was stolen. He asked the neighborhood kids and finally found out that his dog was intended to be used for fighting. The guy was frantic. More neighborly chats lead to a possible location, he found the dog a few days later, all is well. He had a loaded gun with him the whole time. Scary ****.
Did you see the TV news where the guy spent 4 days digging in the ground to get his dog out after it was buried alive. His tears of joy when the dog was finally rescued is a indication of how people feel about their own and other dogs.
The public does not tolerate this type of thing. What makes Vick's case even worse is the fact that he lied about it. He came clean only after he was exposed. Shame!
eoe wrote:Slappy, I'm just not hip. I haven't heard of any racial divide in Atlanta or anywhere else. That sounds like a whole lot of hype and you know what they say. Don't believe it.
All I did was state what I heard from someone who fields phone calls all day on this issue in Atlanta. But I'll take your advice and "not believe the hype."
My eyes are now open.
Football is a job. An overpaid job... but a job none-the-less. I don't think people who have been convicted of a crime, after they have served their sentence, to be prevented from returning to their line of work.
He should serve his time in jail which is the appropriate punishment for his crime.
Then he should be allowed to return to his career.
ebrown_p wrote:Football is a job. An overpaid job... but a job none-the-less. I don't think people who have been convicted of a crime, after they have served their sentence, to be prevented from returning to their line of work.
He should serve his time in jail which is the appropriate punishment for his crime.
Then he should be allowed to return to his career.
I disagree totally. Having sadistically murdered those dogs indicates something fundamental about his character. If I were in charge of the Falcons, or the NFL, I would wish to have no connection to him whatsoever. His character is unlikely to improve significantly in jail.
Brandon9000 wrote: His character is unlikely to improve significantly in jail.
I don't believe that Michael Vick is a stupid man. He's young and despicable in his treatment of the dogs but not too stupid to realize what this nasty kink in his character has caused him. I think/hope he'll emerge from this a mature and very changed man.
i don't see him playing in the NFL again, not with their tough personal conduct rules.
if he wants to play football again, i'm sure the CFL will take him...
I live in hilly country and radio reception in the car is very erratic.
When I don't want to be alone with my own thoughts--and when I can't get a clear signal from PBS--I wander through the airwaves encountering, evangelicalist, right-wing orators and sports talk.
I've heard several not-very-articulate, terribly nervous, very sincere black men defending Vick as a victim of powerful forces mustered against any successful black man.
Obviously I'm a model for the cover of Sports Illiterate. I tend to worry in a general, non-specific way about Role Models for Youth, although I think most parents are perfectly capable of using Michael Vick as a damn fool who broke the law rather than as a reason for legalizing dog fighting.
You are confusing the NFL with the Boy Scouts.
The NFL is a business (a very profitable business) that makes money by satisfying the need of many Americans to watch very aggressive behavior in a violent contest.
The players in the NFL all gave their lives to the goal of reaching the NFL as kids.
The football system that benefits the NFL (by providing the players) is designed to teach them, as kids, to be aggressive. The kids give up a lot to be a part of this system... they must give all of their lives over a period of years, often at the cost of a real education or a chance at a career.
However, only a select few are selected. The ones who, after they have been trained to be aggressive and asked to give themselves completely to the hope of making it, are discarded... always coldly (it is a business after all) and sometimes tragically.
The NFL is a business... they don't care about players or kids... and anyone who thinks they are providing role models is completely out of touch with reality.
Michael Vick has a debt to society which he will pay in prison. It is the job of the courts, following the law, to decide what his punishment to be. Once he has served his punishment, the law says the debt is paid.
For the NFL (or its fans) to then take the law in its own hands by assigning its own punishment would be the very definition of hypocrisy.
The NFL has no right to pretend to be a moral force.
But the NFL makes money by selling tickets, much like the entertainment industry. If the public finds someone morally repulsive enough they won't pay to see them, on the field or on the movie screen. And a businesses will make decisions accordingly.
Do you think, five years from now, that the public, as fickle as they/we have proven ourselves to be, will still hold this against Vick? I don't think so. If he wants to, Vick will play again, I have no doubt because five years from now, after he's done his time, laid low for maybe another year, and then hires the right people to spiff up his image, some team is gonna take a chance.
Sure, anything is possible. I can certainly picture an older, more humble, "I learned my lesson" Michael Vick playing again in five years. But whether or not the people forget, the press certainly won't and will be reminding us.
After he has served out his sentence... why should fans care?
Our society finds this kind of thing repulsive... which is why he will be punished with prison time. But the punishment should be determined by the law and the courts... not by the angry mob.
The idea that he should be banned from working in his career for life is going way overboard... and we are talking about a career. He is in the entertainment industry and his crime has nothing to do with his job. He isn't going to be a veterinarian or something related.
Of course... the football players you see (as well as any public figure) are really fictional characters. You don't know the real people. You don't know the real Michael Vick even now... it is just that now the news media are writing the script for this fictional character rather than the sports media.
When he comes back... there will be a very interesting plot angle for the new Michael Vick-- Redemption. It might be a good show.
Well, ebrown, I see your point but I think it's unrealistic. To bring up another example mentioned in this thread, Mike Tyson is still widely reviled even though he's paid for his crime in jail time. That's not to say that what Vick did is akin to rape, but image is everything for that industry. That's why they get paid the big bucks and get sneakers named after them and get their faces on popular brands. It's all about popularity (and a little skill).
I agree with your prediction that there will be a redemption story. I just think that without that story you won't see him return.
ebrown_p wrote:For the NFL (or its fans) to then take the law in its own hands by assigning its own punishment would be the very definition of hypocrisy.
The NFL has no right to pretend to be a moral force.
Actually they do. If the commissioner decides to ban him, he's gone.
Yeah Slappy... they technically have the right -- I was making a statement on the morality of such a ban.
Such a ban would be great act of hypocrisy.
eoe wrote:Brandon9000 wrote: His character is unlikely to improve significantly in jail.
I don't believe that Michael Vick is a stupid man. He's young and despicable in his treatment of the dogs but not too stupid to realize what this nasty kink in his character has caused him. I think/hope he'll emerge from this a mature and very changed man.
Sorry, but anyone who would do what he's done, particularly the executions, has to be inherently a sadist, and I don't think this is something he's likely to fix.
ebrown_p wrote:...Michael Vick has a debt to society which he will pay in prison. It is the job of the courts, following the law, to decide what his punishment to be. Once he has served his punishment, the law says the debt is paid.
For the NFL (or its fans) to then take the law in its own hands by assigning its own punishment would be the very definition of hypocrisy.
The NFL has no right to pretend to be a moral force.
Even after he's paid his debt to society, the owners of the Falcons and/or the NFL have a perfect right to decline to associate with such a horrible man.
Brandon... I am sure you agree that this guy is going to need to find some sort of job. Telling a man he can never earn a living again is an awfully harsh punishment-- and it is not even good for society.
So you think he is an incurable sadist-- he still needs to work.
If we could find a place where violence and aggression were glorified. If these traits were used to promote business somehow... so that he would be using his sadistic tendencies (and the sadist tendencies of millions of viewers) to contribute something to the economy.
I wonder where we could find a business like this?
