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Breaking a vow

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Aug, 2007 03:03 pm
In Germany, when you get married, you just and only agree to marry the other person.

Vows is something what is done in religious services.
And thus, this is certainly a religious question or how serious you take this religious service.
That is, if you have a religious marriage as well to the normal one.
0 Replies
 
Diane
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Aug, 2007 04:39 pm
The posts here have been interesting and insightful. I can respect each one for the reasons given even when I disagree.

For me, I was never unfaithful in a 34 year marriage until I fell in love with Dys. Then there was no question. The attraction was too strong and I had been so terribly unhappy for most of those 34 years.

Perhaps because we are older--I robbed the cradle, he is two years younger than I--vows take on a different meaning. We aren't married, but I feel more married than ever before. For us, love, trust, respect and being with and caring for each other every day is what our relationship is all about.

Another aspect we don't have to worry about is kids. My sons are in their 30's so they weren't at risk of being harmed by my divorcing their father.

Besides, I don't know how we could possibly put into words just what our 'marriage' means to us--it is so full of total love and trust and other, more complex emotions-- we don't feel any promises need to be made--we just know. At our age, that also comes more easily. We've been around the block and know ourselves very well.

For me, making the decision to leave was tortuous and filled with guilt until I realized that if I didn't leave to be with the one man I truly loved, I would be unfaithful to myself. At the age of 60, I guess it wasn't as hard as it would have been at 40 or 50.

A friend put it very well by telling me the story of her great aunt: her aunt had always been unhappy and mistreated, but in that generation, divorce wasn't considered. To find a safe way out, she stopped taking her medications for high blood pressure and heart problems. Death was the only 'respectable' way out of that chronic unhappiness.

That made me take a very different look at the meaning and importance of marriage vows. If they result in trapping one in perpetual unhappiness, they need to be broken.

For me, life began at 60 and it has been better than ever before. And there is no guilt, just happiness.

I realize that our case is different because we are much older than most of you, but our story can bring some understanding to what vows and marriage are about and the importance of being true to one's self.
0 Replies
 
happycat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Aug, 2007 04:42 pm
I like that he refers to you as The Lady Diane. Smile
0 Replies
 
Diane
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Aug, 2007 05:06 pm
Happycat, he's as sweet as they come.
0 Replies
 
happycat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Aug, 2007 05:09 pm
Diane wrote:
Happycat, he's as sweet as they come.


yes, I'm sure. Smile
0 Replies
 
baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2007 06:14 am
Diane wrote:
The posts here have been interesting and insightful. I can respect each one for the reasons given even when I disagree.

For me, I was never unfaithful in a 34 year marriage until I fell in love with Dys. Then there was no question. The attraction was too strong and I had been so terribly unhappy for most of those 34 years.

Perhaps because we are older--I robbed the cradle, he is two years younger than I--vows take on a different meaning. We aren't married, but I feel more married than ever before. For us, love, trust, respect and being with and caring for each other every day is what our relationship is all about.

Another aspect we don't have to worry about is kids. My sons are in their 30's so they weren't at risk of being harmed by my divorcing their father.

Besides, I don't know how we could possibly put into words just what our 'marriage' means to us--it is so full of total love and trust and other, more complex emotions-- we don't feel any promises need to be made--we just know. At our age, that also comes more easily. We've been around the block and know ourselves very well.

For me, making the decision to leave was tortuous and filled with guilt until I realized that if I didn't leave to be with the one man I truly loved, I would be unfaithful to myself. At the age of 60, I guess it wasn't as hard as it would have been at 40 or 50.

A friend put it very well by telling me the story of her great aunt: her aunt had always been unhappy and mistreated, but in that generation, divorce wasn't considered. To find a safe way out, she stopped taking her medications for high blood pressure and heart problems. Death was the only 'respectable' way out of that chronic unhappiness.

That made me take a very different look at the meaning and importance of marriage vows. If they result in trapping one in perpetual unhappiness, they need to be broken.

For me, life began at 60 and it has been better than ever before. And there is no guilt, just happiness.

I realize that our case is different because we are much older than most of you, but our story can bring some understanding to what vows and marriage are about and the importance of being true to one's self.


Interesting story that brings a few questions to mind.

Why didn't you wait until after divorcing to begin seeing dys?

You claim to have been terribly unhappy for nearly 34 years. Would you consider that you had any responsibility in the unhappiness? Please share with us some of the things you did to bring happiness into your dreadful marriage.

How did your affair and subsequent divorce affect your ex?

How can you determine for your 30-something y.o. sons that your affair and divorce was not harmful. Please tell us what the conversation was like when you told your sons that you were having an affair with another man, that you loved him and was leaving their father.

Your comment about being unfaithful to yourself if you don't have an affair and divorce your ex intrigues me. Please expound.

You've presented the image that your ex was an awful man. There is no way for any of us to know the truth. What do you feel his response would be to your words on here?

What is your definition of a 'vow'? Clearly it is related to age, so please offer the approximate age when the traditional definition of 'vow' changes.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2007 09:50 am
Listen baddog, I think you're getting a bit too far here. Diane doesn't
have to prove anything to you, and your questions are far to personal
for her to answer. Get a hold of yourself. You have your own Christian
mind, then live with it - leave others alone!
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2007 10:05 am
(thank you, Jane)
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2007 10:54 am
I can't see anything Christian in that response by baddog - it's just and only .... stupid.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2007 11:17 am
Gotta say, Diane put it out there.

Nothing really unreasonable about baddog's response, IMNSHO.
0 Replies
 
mushypancakes
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2007 11:18 am
Laughing

I always enjoy Diane's posts. They feel so honest and from the heart.

The idea of taking vows just to marry. That's interesting. Do you know, didn't really consider it like that before. Astounding. Wow. Living in a box.
That changes everything.

So...does that mean that there is no vow to not take a lover?
To pledge yourself to one and only person?

Does that have religious implications as well?
0 Replies
 
baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2007 11:23 am
CalamityJane wrote:
Listen baddog, I think you're getting a bit too far here. Diane doesn't
have to prove anything to you, and your questions are far to personal
for her to answer. Get a hold of yourself. You have your own Christian
mind, then live with it - leave others alone!


Uh - excuse me! Shocked

Where did I ask Diane to prove anything to me?

And personal? Diane posted her (personal) situation onto a public forum. Please explain!
0 Replies
 
baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2007 11:31 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
I can't see anything Christian in that response by baddog - it's just and only .... stupid.


What's stupid about my response walter?

What seems stupid to me is the fact that there is no consideration for the man whose wife of 34 years, cheated on, divorced him and is proud of it all. (And also determined that the son's are unaffected by it as well.) You do not know the ex's, nor the son's side of the story, other than what this admittedly betraying woman claims.

Who's the stupid one?
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2007 11:37 am
ehBeth wrote:
Gotta say, Diane put it out there.

Nothing really unreasonable about baddog's response, IMNSHO.


That's correct, Diane voluntarily shared something very personal
with us. The operating word is "voluntarily", and I don't think it is
appropriate for baddog to ask questions like this

Quote:
Please tell us what the conversation was like when you told your sons that you were having an affair with another man, that you loved him and was leaving their father.


Only an insensitive fool would ask a question like that.
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2007 11:53 am
I don't think it's anyones business to tell baddog not to ask about Diane's business but Diane.


I'd be pretty pissed off if someone told me what I could and couldn't ask a third party a question. One who is a responsible adult.

Let Diane speak for herself.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2007 12:03 pm
You're pissed off more often anyways, so nothing to worry here. Razz

I do as I please, Chai - always have, always will.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2007 12:18 pm
CJane - you certainly do as you like - other posters have that right as well - including baddog.

The sensitivity point is an interesting one. Not sure baddog's the one to call out on that.
0 Replies
 
baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2007 12:54 pm
CalamityJane wrote:
That's correct, Diane voluntarily shared something very personal with us. The operating word is "voluntarily"..., and I don't think it is appropriate for baddog to ask questions like this

Quote:
Please tell us what the conversation was like when you told your sons that you were having an affair with another man, that you loved him and was leaving their father.


Only an insensitive fool would ask a question like that.


As to appropriateness: It is clear that you feel it is completely appropriate to cheat and divorce on a whim - we all get that. I disagree. So it is fair to say that you & I will always differ on what is appropriate & not when it comes to committed matters of the heart.

As to me being an insensitive fool: I conclude that all of us are guilty of that at times. However I am not on this occasion. Diane clearly implied that her sons were not harmed by her choices. I am curious as to what the conversation was like that led her to this conclusion. Surely, she would not speak for her grown sons and would show them the respect they deserve by having this conversation...

And speaking of insensitivity; please share your thoughts on how Diane's ex most likely felt upon gaining knowledge of the affair (at 60-something years old). Imagine starting over w/o the person you've been with for 34 years after being blind-sided by an affair and divorce. [Like I mentioned - you've only heard Diane's side.] Let us hear from your sensitive (or insensitive) side concerning Mr. Ex!
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2007 01:00 pm
baddog wrote:
divorce on a whim

Presumptuous ass.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2007 01:16 pm
baddog1 wrote:
As to appropriateness: It is clear that you feel it is completely appropriate to cheat and divorce on a whim - we all get that.


Ah, here you are again insinuating something I have never said. You
will not find any statement from me having said such nonsense.

But as dyslexia said already, I have to agree with him.
0 Replies
 
 

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