Why I hate Italians

And if you remember WWI history, France wanted such large reparations from Germany it set the stage for the Weimar Republic inflation which was fertile soil for the Nazis to gain power. Now there too a country wanted to profit from their war effort.

Foofie wrote:

And if you remember WWI history, France wanted such large reparations from Germany it set the stage for the Weimar Republic inflation which was fertile soil for the Nazis to gain power. Now there too a country wanted to profit from their war effort.

Once again, you are peddling horseshit which bears no relationship to historical reality. In fact, you are peddling the propaganda of a myth dear to the heart of the Nazis, the "Versailles Diktat" myth. In fact, after 1871, the Germans imposed reparations of 700,000,000 gold francs on the French, who not only paid it off to the surprise of Europe (the Germans had thought to cripple them economically for generations), but paid it off in under three years by knuckling down and "biting the bullet."

So, it was an easy line of bullshit for gutter politicians to peddle that the French were out for revenge with the reparations, and the "Versailles Diktat" myth, and the accompanying "Stab in the Back Myth" (to the effect that the German Army was never defeated--which is pure BS--but had been betrayed by politicians; that was used to discredit Weimar, which actually did a very good job of effectively governing Germany) were both essential to the propaganda of the Brown Shirts, the NSDAP and DNP (the German National Party, basically the conservatives).

You're peddling Nazi propaganda, even if you don't know it or intend it. In the first place, the NSDAP and Hitler never had an original idea in their pathetic lives--every effective economic measure in the 1920s and -30s was a product of the Weimar government; even the cosmetic propaganda crapola like soup kitchens and public "make-work" projects which originally drew favorable attention to the NSDAP was first put into effect by the Brown Shirts. As with the economic policy of Weimar, the NSDAP coopted such programs and claimed the credit for themselves.

The Germans never paid their reparations. They paid less than 20%, and that was only the "in kind" payments of ships, rolling stock, manufacturing equipment and stocks of industrial materials, which the Allies largely got because they seized them after the war, rather than having had them willingly handed over by the Germans. Much of the High Seas Fleet was scuttled by the crews to avoid turning warships over to the Allies as reparations. The reparation schedule was arrived at by all of the Allies representatives (literally thousands of them) working in concert, and was not a revenge act by France. Not only did Germany not pay its reparations, but Austria and Hungary were forgiven their reparations debts because of economic hardship--only Bulgaria paid it's reparations, and only did so by accepting economic beggary for 20 years.

I understand that you are largely ignorant of history, and that what you spout off is the type of historical myth which is the equivalent of the news "sound bite." I would think by now, though, for as long as you've been posting here, that you would have learned to check out your facts before you spout off. Apparently not, though, as you continue to post drivel such as that.

Foofie wrote:

To reiterate: The U.S. still gets involved with wars for the benefit of other nations

Name one.

(If she says Iraq, I'm gonna spit my Pepsi all over my keyboard)

Further, most of us were disappointed with the West, including the U.S. when they failed us in 1938, 1939, 1956, 1968, 1981... But those are just notes on the margin.

History is not in the eye of any beholder. Many revisionist historians like to make such a case, because they have a vested interest in making the claim, since controversy helps to sell their books. As one of our members from several years ago once pointed out, all historians are revisionists. However, on the subject of the consequences of the Great War, there is not doubt among people who are well informed, and who don't have an agenda in describing historical events, there is no doubt that the "Versailles Diktat" and the "Stab in the Back" were both political myths exploited by gutter politicians in Germany, such as Hitler.

You managed to dredge up both in one brief passage: And if you remember WWI history, France wanted such large reparations from Germany it set the stage for the Weimar Republic inflation which was fertile soil for the Nazis to gain power. France was one of seven nations who were formally represented at the Paris Peace Conference of 1919: the United States, Great Britain, Canada, Australia, France, Italy and Japan. France did not impose terms, the terms were negotiated by all of the representatives of the Allies. Germany did not pay the reparations, so the claim that said reparations fueled inflation in the Weimar Republic is patently false. Before the German Army was ever beaten (and it was beaten in the field), the capacity of German to feed itself and sustain its industries had already collapsed. The NSDAP rose to power because of the power of the "Versailles Diktat" and the "Stab in the Back" myths, not because there was any truth in those claims. If that is actually what you read in your history text, then that text was in error, which, sadly, would not surprise me. But i rather suspect that you either did not understand fully what was being taught you, or that your teacher was retailing that false tale, which remains popular among people who think that they can glibly describe the cause of massive and complex historical events in a few choice phrases.

And that's why my answers are so long--even a simplistic description of the cause and effect of history which seeks to be as objective as possible is necessarily long--or rather appears long. I gave you the shortest of the short answers. If you would really like to know what happened after the Great War, i recommend to you Paris 1919: Six Months that Changed the World, by Mararet Macmillan, J. Murray, London, 2001 (published originally as Peacemakers)--which is the most recently, and the most comprehensive book on the Peace Conference that i have ever seen. Miss Macmillan is an historian and professor of history at Oxford University, and professor of history at the University of Toronto. This book has won several awards (at least four that i know of) for history and non-fiction publishing, and is eminently readable.

dagmaraka wrote:

Further, most of us were disappointed with the West, including the U.S. when they failed us in 1938, 1939, 1956, 1968, 1981... But those are just notes on the margin.

Dag has got that dead to rights--1938, the occupation of Czechoslovakia by Germany; 1939, the invasion of Poland by Germany and the Soviet Union; 1956, the failed Hungarian uprising, brutally crushed by the Soviets; 1968, the "Czech Spring," when Soviet tanks crushed a popular government movement; 1981, Jaruzelski mobilizes the Polish army to crush the Solidarity movement. The west has indeed failed eastern Europe, and personally, i'd go back to Paris in 1919 on that one. I love it when the rightwingnuts claim Reagan won the Cold War . . . HEY . . . wake up, you're dreamin' . . .

The United States is, to all intents and purposes, a European nation, as are all the nations of the New World, being at one time the colonies of England, France, Holland, Spain, Portugal or Sweden (Delaware). The tariff was an issue in the South, but was certainly not a proximate cause of the American Civil War--and the South was opposed to the tariff. Northerners wanted a tariff to protect their industries, and the South opposed the tariff because they wanted cheap manufactured goods from England and France, who practiced "dumping" of their goods to drive their American competitors out of the market, and because they were outrageously raping Southerners with the prices they paid for tobacco and cotton. Once again, either you weren't paying attention, or you were being fed bullshit.

caucasoidal

...Old Testament Christians...

Frankly, I don't even know what 'differential calculus' is.

What you see here in the posts of foofie, folks, is the typical result of a typical American public school education -- all 'mom and apple pie' with absolutely no substance to it, laced liberally with a jingoistic streak a mile wide. This is what our kids are taught: we are the greatest nation that ever was; we never did no wrong nohow; America -- love it or leave it.

Clinton was elected. If any Republicans here dislike Wee whistlin' Willie, you have no one to blame but your own man -- it was the ineptitude of the first Bush which got Clinton elected the first time, not the magnetic personality of the Arkansas traveler.