Snowdon is a dummy

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Frank is just growing more and more conservative as he grows older, a natural phenomenon.[/qauote]

I despise American conservatism with every bone in my body. That does not mean I have to be on the opposite side of everything they hold in approval. And from my personal experience, there are many conservatives here who feel more in line with Walter than with me.

Quote:
My point is that Germany (and France, but Holande is a coward) should hit back at the US with actions, not words.

Yup...you should spy on us and on President Obama...if you have the capability. Or you should take other steps.

Or you can sit on an Internet forum and jaw about it.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

But it is not absolute in Germany. Many people there, according to reports I have read, do not agree with you...and see the actions of America as reasonable.

Could you give me a single source quoting many Germans who find it reasonable that Merkel's phone and those of more 300 other political and business leaders was hacked, emails and phone calls of Germans are looked at as well ... and only the hacking of Merkel's phone will stop or has stopped.

I'm rather literate in German, read quite a bit, listen sometimes to the radio and watch tv. I really must have missed that.

But since you've got in the USA a better knowledge about what is going on here in Germany than I've got with my limited sources and without the technology to hack other phones and computers ... my bad - it really will be that I'm wrong.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
But it is not absolute in Germany. Many people there, according to reports I have read, do not agree with you...and see the actions of America as reasonable.

Could you give me a single source quoting many Germans who find it reasonable that Merkel's phone and those of more 300 other political and business leaders was hacked, emails and phone calls of Germans are looked at as well ... and only the hacking of Merkel's phone will stop or has stopped.

I'm rather literate in German, read quite a bit, listen sometimes to the radio and watch tv. I really must have missed that.

But since you've got in the USA a better knowledge about what is going on here in Germany than I've got with my limited sources and without the technology to hack other phones and computers ... my bad - it really will be that I'm wrong.

No need for that, Walter.

I'll take your word that every German agrees with you...and all think the US was scum for doing what they have done.

I apologize for mistakenly thinking otherwise.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Well,

Earlier I wrote:

Most people don't care ... now about the USA spying on us.
The strategy to demoralise/discourage/confuse seems to work.

Like it do twice before here.

So I really think that many now get bored about the daily news regarding the "NSA Affaire" as it is called in German.

But I sincerely doubt that they find spying on us reasonable.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Many people there, according to reports I have read, do not agree with you...and see the actions of America as reasonable.

I've been to the STASI-archive.
And since tv-channels and print media publish just now quite a lot about how the Nazis spied on us, people really are sensibilized. Or interested. At least educated.

But some might find it reasonable. Without doubt. (There are even quite a few who think that the earth is flat!!!)

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Seriously, Frank - and I'm dead serious now:
if many Germans find it reasonable that a foreign nation spies on our government, hacks the phone of our chancellor and has access to our phone calls and emails ... I wouldn't like to live in such a country anymore.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Seriously, Frank - and I'm dead serious now:
if many Germans find it reasonable that a foreign nation spies on our government, hacks the phone of our chancellor and has access to our phone calls and emails ... I wouldn't like to live in such a country anymore.

Walter (and I am dead serious also)...my guess is that EVERY country that has the capability to do so...IS DOING IT.

EVERY intelligence agency should be using EVERYTHING at its command to gather as much information from as many places as possible.

We are not going to agree on this...that seem certain.

I respect your right to feel as you do...but I feel completely differently.

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

I despise American conservatism with every bone in my body.

LOL... Why do you align with them then?

Quote:

Or you can sit on an Internet forum and jaw about it.

Like you do 24/7, you mean?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Walter (and I am dead serious also)...my guess is that EVERY country that has the capability to do so...IS DOING IT.

Might be so. I'm not disputing such - and wasn't responding to that at all.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

I respect your right to feel as you do...but I feel completely differently.

Indeed. And you wrote that many German find it reasonable as well (that we are spied on by a foreign intelligence agency).

1 Reply

Snowden writes in the Guardian:
Vladimir Putin must be called to account on surveillance just like Obama

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
I despise American conservatism with every bone in my body.

LOL... Why do you align with them then?

I do not align with them. I speak my mind...and if my thoughts are left or right of center...or completely outside the box...so be it.

Quote:

Quote:
Or you can sit on an Internet forum and jaw about it.

Like you do 24/7, you mean?

One of the options!

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
I respect your right to feel as you do...but I feel completely differently.

Indeed. And you wrote that many German find it reasonable as well (that we are spied on by a foreign intelligence agency).

But the moment you told me that just about all Germans agree with you and condemn the US...I deferred to you.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

But the moment you told me that just about all Germans agree with you and condemn the US...I deferred to you.

Really? I can't remember
- that I ever condemned the USA,
- that I ever thought that about all Germans condem the USA
- that I ever wrote such.

And I don't think that not many Germans agree with me - on this topic or any other.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Align or not, your posts are typical of a certain narrow minded, callous American right.

2 Replies

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Align or not, your posts are typical of a certain narrow minded, callous American right.

I doubt that...but I understand your need to think it.

In fact, I get a kick out of it. Wink

0 Replies

@Olivier5,

Do you not think that you and others are being just as callus and narrow minded towards those Americans you disagree with? I mean we can have a difference of opinion without just flat out condemning a whole country. From what I can tell, the polls in the US are pretty well divided on the surveillance issue.

For the record and not for the first time, while I don't condone Snowden, I disagree with a good deal of the spying and have done since a lot of them were put in place more than ten years ago. I do think data collecting should done, but with limits and more safeguards. I disagree with spying on allies governments. I don't understand why we do it when we would not want it done to us. A person can be against spying without thinking Snowden is a hero, in other words, two wrongs don't make a right.

3 Replies

@revelette2,

Pulizer Prize winner, Mr Snowden.

Good man.

0 Replies

@revelette2,

For the record from me and not for the first time, too:

I do think that spying is a necessary evil. (And that not because I've been participating.)
What I really dislike is the spying by the USA on us German citizens, and our government and businesses. (I can understand, why China is doing it, and why the it was done during the Cold War by others.)

Since the USA is though to be one of -if not THE- closest of our friends and allies, it really brings back memories of the Nazi and Stasi period.

That has nothing to do with condemning the USA but with questioning, why their agencies are doing it.

I don't think that Snowden is a hero. But the whistleblowing he did, was a necessity. A good man he is.

0 Replies

@revelette2,

I am taking aim at the spies and their political supporters, not at all Americans. Let's not forget that Snowden, whom I have a great deal of admiration for, is an American.

0 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

Reminds me of when Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn made his first public comments after moving to Vt. Folks expected some sort of positive response and got lambasted with both barrels.

1 Reply

Snowdon is a dummy

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know