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Better hide the tattoo if you want the job

 
 
Reply Thu 5 Jul, 2007 08:35 am
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-tattoo5jul05,0,3229683.story?coll=la-home-center

From the Los Angeles Times
Better hide the tattoo if you want the job
As the use of body art grows, it's becoming an employment issue.
By Molly Selvin
Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
July 5, 2007

Last year Justin Miloro had to wear long sleeves to conceal the Buddha curling around his left forearm and the yellow-orange sun rays on his right. Pants covered the depiction of Earth on one leg and wings on the other. The sun spreading across his back was under wraps. The plugs in his earlobes were obscured by bandages.

"I thought it was really silly," Miloro recalled, "worse than seeing the tattoos."

This year he has nothing to hide ?- even though the 32-year-old worked last year for Whole Foods Market Inc. in Boston, where he was a salesclerk, and now works as a manager for the same company in Los Angeles, overseeing health and beauty products departments at 25 stores.

The chain has looser dress and grooming standards in some parts of the country than others. Setting degrees of tattoo taboos is how Whole Foods handles the increasing attraction to ?- though definitely not universal acceptance of ?- body art.

Once associated with drunken sailors, felons and Hells Angels, tattoos have gone nearly mainstream, putting employers in a bind. How to write rules that won't alienate un-hip customers on the one hand or eliminate talented workers on the other?

Different standards have emerged. A pink rose discreetly inked on an ankle might pass muster at a hospital but not a day-care center; an eyebrow stud will be viewed as charming at one store and a blemish at another.

In many cases, grooming policies are being set by members of a generation known for letting it all hang out.

"The baby boomers had hair out to the ceiling, cut jeans, ripped clothes that they washed sometimes," said Mark Mehler, co-founder of CareerXroads, a New Jersey recruiting and consulting firm.

And now boomers are passing judgment on nose rings.

The irony isn't lost on Fred Saunders, president and founder of FSPS Inc., which stages concerts and productions for companies including Nintendo Co. and Walt Disney Co. Some of them demand clean-cut crews: trimmed sideburns, long hair pulled into ponytails, no detectable tattoos.

Of course, Saunders, 57, doesn't often take his shirt off during contract negotiations: On his back is a tattoo tableau featuring a samurai warrior skirmishing with a dragon.

"There's a shock value to the art," he acknowledged, and some people get a "negative vibe."

Nearly 50% of Americans between 21 and 32 have at least one tattoo or a piercing other than in an ear, according to a 2006 study by the University of Chicago and Northwestern University. Men and women alike say their tattoos make them feel sexy and rebellious, a 2003 Harris Poll found, while the unadorned of both genders see body art as unsightly and think those with tattoos and piercings are less intelligent and less attractive.

For Tumbleweed Day Camp in L.A., this divide can cause headaches. Although counselors' body art tends toward ladybugs or Asian characters for "luck," some parents complain that the inked and pierced don't look like appropriate role models. But Director John Beitner said that if he adopted a no-tattoo policy, he would lose excellent candidates for the camp's 120 counseling jobs.

Just 10 years ago, he said, only 5% of the staff had tattoos, and this summer it's close to 20%.

Beitner's solution: the is-it- offensive test, applied on a case-by-case basis. "A butterfly is not such a big deal," he said, but a skull and crossbones with blood dripping out of the eye sockets would be a problem. And sometimes Beitner does ask staffers to remove belly rings or tongue studs when they're at work.

Like many law enforcement agencies, the Costa Mesa Police Department takes a harder line than Tumbleweed Day Camp. The department's 162 officers can't display any tattoos or piercings while in uniform. The only exception is one stud per ear (hoops pose a safety risk).

"The big concern for us is professionalism," said Hugh Tate, who directs training and recruitment for the department.

Four years ago, the department didn't need a policy on body art. Then tattooed veterans of the war in Iraq began to apply for jobs. Unlike those from earlier wars, who embellished their upper arms with service insignias, many of these vets had vividly decorated their entire forearms.

Tate said the department had to turn them away. If they wanted to sue, claiming discrimination, they wouldn't get very far, because the law gives employers broad latitude to establish dress and grooming standards consistent with the images they want to convey.

Policies are all over the map. PricewaterhouseCoopers' says only that employees must wear "professional" attire, making no mention of ink. Employees at aircraft maker Boeing Co. can show off tattoos so long as the designs aren't what a spokesman called "offensive," but grocery workers at Vons are advised to totally cover up.

The dress code for Disney theme parks and resorts is among the most explicit and conservative: no visible tattoos, and the only permissible piercings are one per earlobe. Earrings must be "a simple matched pair in gold, silver or a color that blends with the costume," company spokesman Donn Walker said. Hoops can't be bigger than a dime.

Many law firms also prefer conventional looks, as Nicole Wool discovered. Six years ago, on her second day as an associate with an L.A. entertainment firm, one of the older partners took her aside and told her to take out her tongue stud.

"I felt so embarrassed," recalled Wool, 32, who now works for Dr. Tattoff, a chain of tattoo removal studios. "It made me feel like I'd done something bad."

It isn't as easy to remove a tattoo, but John Wellman, 20, has heard too many potential employers in retail sales tell him that the image he projects is "not the image they're trying to send." So he's paying Dr. Tattoff close to $700 to erase the teardrop under his right eye, a memorial to deceased friends, and three small dots on his right hand.

Danielle Marcus, 22, also turned to Dr. Tattoff to lose the star on the inside of her left forearm. The recent USC graduate said she worried that the star, inscribed in memory of her brother, who died three years ago, might "give off an air of unprofessionalism."

Dr. Tattoff's chief executive, James Morel, estimated that 20% of the chain's clients undergo laser erasure treatments to improve their job prospects.

Financial planner Eric Cohen is having none of that. His boss at A.G. Edwards & Sons Inc. in Torrance is untroubled by the dragon that sometimes pokes out from Cohen's shirt cuff.

The 37-year old got the tattoo, which envelops his right forearm, in 1996 when he was working as a hotel concierge. "I still love it," he said.

When he interviewed with A.G. Edwards seven years ago, Cohen made sure to keep the dragon under wraps. He kept it covered during his first few years on the job.

Now, a string of solid performance reviews behind him, Cohen sometimes goes to work in short sleeves. "My boss is a relaxed kind of guy," he said. Besides, "it gets warm in here."
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,833 • Replies: 35
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jul, 2007 02:03 pm
I think a company has a right to enforce whatever dress code they deem acceptable for their business.

I think it's better to say yes or no to all tattoos than to try to pick on a case by case basis though.
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jul, 2007 02:16 pm
Seems like a no brainer to me to not get tatoos on your forearm.

I've been surprised many many times when I realize some man I worked with had a tatoo...but they had the common sense to keep them above elbow level.

Someone could go on and on about their "right" to decorate their body as they see fit, but the fact of the matter is we live and work with other people, some of whom are responsible for use being gainfully employed. Since we don't know what that person will be like, it's wise to err on the side of caution.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jul, 2007 02:22 pm
You'd have a hard time finding a group in our office that didn't have men/women with tattoos. In my immediate work zone of 5 women and 2 men, 4 of the women have tattoos and 1 of the men. Our age range is early 30's to 50. No young 'uns.

We're in a fairly conservative financial services industry, but tattoos are pretty standard issue round here.

When I was interviewed, I made a point of wearing shoes that allowed my foot tat to be visible. I didn't quite shake my foot in their faces, but they saw it. If they had a problem with it, I didn't want to come work here.
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jul, 2007 03:04 pm
appearance more important than substance, character or capability. It's the American way....
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jul, 2007 03:09 pm
I have a comment about this part of the story...

Nearly 50% of Americans between 21 and 32 have at least one tattoo or a piercing other than in an ear, according to a 2006 study by the University of Chicago and Northwestern University. Men and women alike say their tattoos make them feel sexy and rebellious, a 2003 Harris Poll found, while the unadorned of both genders see body art as unsightly and think those with tattoos and piercings are less intelligent and less attractive.

As read, it's indicating that anyone who does not have body art finds it unsightly. That is certainly not true.

In fact, I'd think most people don't give tats much thought, unless it's so visible as to obscure their few of the actual person.

For most people, I feel having a tatoo is a very private thing.

Also, the comparing long hair, ripped jeans, colored hair in the same catagory as piercings and ink isn't valid. You can easily change your ripped jeans, let your hair grow out or change it's color or cut it. Not so with tatoos.

I'll tell you what's going to be a HUGE business within the next 20, 30, 40 years...tatoo removal. I'm going to buy stock in the first company that goes public.

How many fashion trends did you go through in your teens, early 20's, perhaps even later, that you blanche today when you think about how you looked, or when you see a picture of yourself with that groovedelic perm or chartruse eye shadow....you know, hard as it is to believe, many people actually bought leisure suits, and thought they were cool.

One day, the 19 year old girl with the knock out figure and landscape inked arcross her lower back is going to kick herself someday. What she thought looked sexy at 19 looks trashy at 40 and just plain gross at 65.

The brash hot dude with the teardrop on his face, or writhing ghouls on the backs of his hands is going to be a 55 year old man, and honestly, will look f*cking ridiculous....when he got them, he wanted to be a rock star, and even had a band....at 55, he may not have picked up a guitar in 20 years, but still has this reminder of a stupid mistake he made when he was 17.

I'm all for doing something artistic, wild, rebellious. But make it something you can change your mind about later.

More than 50% of marriages end in divorce....most people have several sex partners over the years. You change jobs, move, change political ideas, get/lose religion, all these and more. Doesn't make sense to me to carry an image around on your body for the rest of your life, when no one is the same person they were yesterday.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jul, 2007 03:22 pm
and you are entitled to your opinion...
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jul, 2007 03:23 pm
Chai wrote:
I'll tell you what's going to be a HUGE business within the next 20, 30, 40 years...tatoo removal. I'm going to buy stock in the first company that goes public.


It is already here, since a ouple of years: namely since it isn't paid anymore by the health insurence.
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jul, 2007 03:24 pm
Tattoos were never an excluding factor back in the days that I hired people but I can think of certain tattoos that might have that effect: gang related or racist tattoos, maybe even a teardrop tattoo because I don't think it show particularly good judgement.

I just think each company has the right to make their own policy. Some companies disallow beards and mustaches, some make women wear pantyhose, some make you cover your tattoos.
0 Replies
 
happycat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jul, 2007 04:22 pm
One of Maryland's county police depts has recently instituted a no-tattoo policy - it's under appeal by the FOP. All tattoos must be covered by clothing regardless of the weather, which means long sleeves in our hot and humid summers. Back-of-neck and hand tattoos may be waived, and some others may be grandfathered, but as far as new tats or new hires with tats, they don't want 'em.
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jul, 2007 04:36 pm
Chai wrote:
The brash hot dude with the teardrop on his face, or writhing ghouls on the backs of his hands is going to be a 55 year old man, and honestly, will look f*cking ridiculous....


What? I don't look ridiculous and I'm almost 55 right now! Now back off or I'll bite a damn bat's head off!

http://www.tattoo-house.ru/foto/znamenit5/Ozzy-Osbourne-2.jpg
0 Replies
 
Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jul, 2007 04:42 pm
I was just reading in the NYTimes about how big a business tatoo removal has become. It's very expensive, but some people do it just to make space for new tatoos, other people want the name of an ex-spouse removed or a woman might decide she made a mistake and doesn't want her Spiderman tatoo visible when she wear her backless wedding gown.

Face tattoos are a no no for me because they just scream bad judgment, and as Boomer mentioned, racist or gang related imagery are also a reason to reject a candidate. Otherwise I don't care, but hey , my guys just have to throw a shovel around. I might be more picky if the person was selling medical supplies or representing me in court,
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jul, 2007 05:43 pm
Mr. Tea has 3 tattoos.

To be honest, I couldn't tell you which arm has which one. After a while, you don't even see them anymore.

One of tatts he honestly regrets, one he's ok with, but did it to please someone else, and would never have picked it for himself, the 3rd he really likes, his first one.

It's none of my business if someone has tatts, I was giving my common sense judgement of people with ink do it with a mind toward the fact they might regret one day where it is placed, or that they have it at all.

Like I said, I didn't realize so many people not just men, have tattos, until the situation called for shirts off, shorts, dressing rooms.

Someone shoveling dirt today might be doing something else in a year, or 5.

As far as the thinking that where you go to work shouldn't have a say about your permanent decorations, well, that's the way the ball bounces. It's great if you work in an environment where it's no big deal, I'm sure, but you can't count on that. It's nice to have the hiring authority/boss on the same wave length as you, but it's not a requirement, and not necessarily really necessary for you to really enjoy your job.

Some might say they wouldn't want to compromise themselves over their freedom of expression. I say I wouldn't want to compromise a great job over my poor judgement.

There's a lot of stuff you coworkers don't need to know about you...your sex life, politics, religious persuasion. Again, nice if can discuss it and be in agreement, but not necessary. You might meet your coworkers at a street fair with your shirt off and your art showing, and that's cool, because you're on your time.

To me, the whole thing is the permanence of it.
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jul, 2007 07:04 pm
God, I never realized how many REALLY bad tattoos were out there. I'm sorry I posted so many, but once I got started I just couldn't stop....there so many more, but I just became exhausted.

Yeah, artistic expression...
Trying to imagine some of the people that let some hack do this to them, and thinking there might be a tad of regret.
What of some of these that the wearer still thinks this is great, but has an awakening some day and enters a stage of life where this sort of thing embarrasses them?

permanent.


http://www.zhippo.com/badtattoosHOSTED/images/gallery/ACF9CE0.jpg
http://www.zhippo.com/badtattoosHOSTED/images/gallery/104.jpg
http://www.zhippo.com/badtattoosHOSTED/images/gallery/105.jpg
http://www.zhippo.com/badtattoosHOSTED/images/gallery/113.jpg
http://www.zhippo.com/badtattoosHOSTED/images/gallery/ACFC354.jpg
http://www.zhippo.com/badtattoosHOSTED/images/gallery/ACF702C.jpg
http://www.zhippo.com/badtattoosHOSTED/images/gallery/ACF70F1.jpg
http://www.zhippo.com/badtattoosHOSTED/images/gallery/37.jpg
http://www.zhippo.com/badtattoosHOSTED/images/gallery/38.jpg
http://www.zhippo.com/badtattoosHOSTED/images/gallery/49.jpg
http://www.zhippo.com/badtattoosHOSTED/images/gallery/65.jpg
http://www.zhippo.com/badtattoosHOSTED/images/gallery/67.jpg
http://www.zhippo.com/badtattoosHOSTED/images/gallery/Untitled-10.jpg
http://www.zhippo.com/badtattoosHOSTED/images/gallery/ACF8545.jpg
0 Replies
 
OGIONIK
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jul, 2007 04:05 am
i plan on having my entire left arm tatted. i hope computer techs dont have high dress code standards Razz
0 Replies
 
happycat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jul, 2007 06:38 am
A guy I've been seeing has tattoos on his arms and back/shoulders; I love it. Every one has a special meaning to him, are well thought out and are all done by an extremely talented artist.
However, too many kids are getting tattoos when they're dared, drunk or in love and that's how the ugly permanent mistakes get made.
I think one of the best professions to get into would be tattoo removal - it's gonna be a booming business in a few years, no doubt.
0 Replies
 
eoe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jul, 2007 07:32 am
You're right about that! Wonder if there's some stock to invest in?
I've often wondered about the women I see walking around with some guy's name tattooed on their leg and if they were still with that guy and how their new guy might feel about it. I came close to asking one lady but...
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jul, 2007 07:52 am
OGIONIK wrote:
i plan on having my entire left arm tatted. i hope computer techs dont have high dress code standards Razz

Have it done in C code, or 8-bit art.

http://www.bmeink.com/A30506/high/picture158.jpg

http://www.bmeink.com/A21104/high/ohm2.jpg

http://www.bmeink.com/A20215/high/tom002.jpg

http://www.bmeink.com/A00311/high/rightarm1.jpg
0 Replies
 
OGIONIK
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jul, 2007 08:11 am
i like how sleeves look, i dont know if anyone has had a chance to see some GOOD sleevework, i mean the kind where you can see the different ages of the tattoos, and the different meanings etc.

it reminds me of tribal warrior/battlescars/old-man-storytelling-material kinda ****, lol that sounds so LAME!
but i still love tats!

but for some reason i cant choose what i want, looks like ill have to wait longer Sad
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jul, 2007 08:32 am
Any time anything gains acceptance to within 50% of the 20-30 age group it dies out quickly.

The problem is the permanence. Somewhere there is a website that shows what a butterfly tat will look like in forty years.

Joe(Nana! What happened to your back??)Nation
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