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Do Christians believe in ghosts?

 
 
echi
 
  1  
Wed 14 Oct, 2009 11:41 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:
I don't have a clue what that 'image' was all about, nor does anybody else, but without evidence to the contrary, I have no reason to disbelieve the experts who have concluded that the photograph was not altered in any way.
Any idea who these experts are or how they concluded the image was not faked?
Quote:
So something was there. We will probably not know what in this lifetime. The story does illustrate, however, the unexplainable phenomenon that surrounds us all, and how little we fully understand.
We know that similar hoaxes have been perpetrated before and that the person responsible for this one is a self-proclaimed rock historian, internet personality and humorist (according to Wikipedia).
Quote:
As I have said previously, I have not had a personal remembered experience with the paranormal or supernatural so far as disembodied spirits go, whether those be angels, demons, spirits of the dead, or out of body experiences. But I think without persuasive evidence to the contrary, the truly enlightened do not arbitrarily close their minds to what others report of their experience, and do not discount possibilities for phenomenon and truths beyond their/our own experience and/or present ability to understand.
I am of course open to evaluating any evidence that exists to support claims of paranormal events. But without persuasive evidence to back it up, I think it's best to stick with the simplest explanation.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Thu 15 Oct, 2009 12:07 am
@echi,
echi wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:
Yes; the question resolves itself down to whether
consciousness depends for its existence upon matter or not.
All of the consciousness that we see around us
is manifested thru matter. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
It is true that all of the consciousness we see is manifested through matter.
And absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but it is still absence of evidence.
Aside from there being a lack of evidence, there is also a lack of any need for alternative
explanations to dreaming, or hallucinations, or something of the sort.
I agree that there is no need, therefor, Echi,
but I will add something to what we have already discussed, to wit:
Part of the paradigm of the experience of death of the deciduous body
is that the consciousness goes on to a Life Review Experience.
(I have not had one of these, that I recall.) In those Life Review Experiences,
the living spirit observes, from a 3rd party perspective,
the events of his incarnate life, qua he is their judge,
by 2 criteria: love and learning.

Some of these people have reported not only feeling what
thay felt when thay lived thru those incidents incarnate,
but also the effects of their actions upon others; e.g., one Tom Sawyer
reported that he came upon his experience of anger at a traffic collision
at which he slugged the other party to the collision in the mouth
numerous times. During his Life Review Experience, in addition
to feeling the pain in his hand from slugging the guy,
he also felt the pain in his victim's mouth,
but that was not bad enuf: he told of feeling the sadness
of people who were absent from the time and place of the slugging,
like junior who did not get a bike for his birthday because Dad
had to deplete available resources for emergency dental surgery.

As u have correctly pointed out, there is a lack of a need
to know and understand what the future holds for us,
but it is my opinion that people will sometimes consider
their actions with more mercy if thay know that
thay will boomerang back on them. For instance, with that
in mind, some years ago, a court reporter whom I had ordered, Linda,
was late in arriving in court (bad car trouble) to record some depositions.
When Linda arrived, the other stenografers had already
divided up the job, and left her with very little to do.
Linda was very distraught; on the verge of tears.
I did not remonstrate against her qua punctuality, but rather
I sympathized and stashed some cash in her pocket
as a present for her forthcoming wedding.
(About a year later, I had occasion to call her at home,
qua some transcripts, and she told me that she had named her child David.)
Anyway, my point is that if people know that what goes around
comes around, then thay may be affected in their behavioral choices.

(David must be about 24 years old by now.)



David
echi
 
  1  
Thu 15 Oct, 2009 12:20 am
@OmSigDAVID,
That's interesting. It doesn't seem too unlike my own trouble falling asleep most nights, going over personal regrets in my mind. It's not surprising that we may experience something similar upon dying.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Thu 15 Oct, 2009 12:49 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Quote:
I'll look for the book, David.
I appreciate the recommendation.
I was surprized at how fast Amazon.com
got it to me; a day or 2.
This book arose from the experiences on-the-job of a very respected
pathologist with many years n decades of seniority as a coroner.
Over the years, some of the survivors of her cadavers approached her,
sua sponte with tales of which Rod Serling woud have had an interest.
Her book is a very fast read; she is a sparkling, delightful woman.
She gave us a lecture at the Mensa Annual Gathering in 2003 in St. Paul, Minn.



Quote:
I have read a number of testimonies from people who have died and been resuscitated
and also of Doctors, once skeptics, who have become believers that consciousness continues
after the physical death of the body.

Are you aware of this study?
No. I just read your post.
Thank u for it. Some of the medical doctors who will participate
in the convention are from England.




Quote:
Perhaps it will produce some hard evidence that our friend Echi
seems to think is necessary in order to even have this discussion:
Yes; we shall see what we shall see.
On Dec. 5th, 1982, I saw such a light as is described,
during a lecture. It lasted about 25 minutes.
It was a mindblowing experience, I gotta say.

I agree that "death is not a specific moment."
Arguably, it begins while heart n brain r still functioning;
e.g., I remember once being late for court in the Bronx.
As I approached the courthouse steps, I saw a dog lying
on the sidewalk, in a fairly lethargic condition.
I emerged about an hour later. He was still lying there.
I bought him a hot dog from a nearby vendor.
He was not interested; he sniffed it n ignored it.
(Is that cannibalism for him ?) It appeared that he was
shutting down his systems and losing interest in the Earth.


Quote:
Thursday, 18 September 2008 UK
Study into near-death experiences
By Jane Dreaper
Health correspondent, BBC News

Many people report seeing a bright light
A large study is to examine near-death experiences in cardiac arrest patients.

Doctors at 25 UK and US hospitals will study 1,500 survivors to see if people with no heartbeat or brain activity can have "out of body" experiences.

Some people report seeing a tunnel or bright light, others recall looking down from the ceiling at medical staff.

The study, due to take three years and co-ordinated by Southampton University, will include placing on shelves images that could only be seen from above.

This is a mystery that we can now subject to scientific study

Towards the light

To test this, the researchers have set up special shelving in resuscitation areas. The shelves hold pictures - but they're visible only from the ceiling.

Dr Sam Parnia, who is heading the study, said: "If you can demonstrate that consciousness continues after the brain switches off, it allows for the possibility that the consciousness is a separate entity.

"It is unlikely that we will find many cases where this happens, but we have to be open-minded.

"And if no one sees the pictures, it shows these experiences are illusions or false memories.

"This is a mystery that we can now subject to scientific study."

Dr Parnia works as an intensive care doctor, and felt from his daily duties that science had not properly explored the issue of near-death experiences.

Process of death

He said: "Contrary to popular perception, death is not a specific moment.

"It is a process that begins when the heart stops beating, the lungs stop working and the brain ceases functioning - a medical condition termed cardiac arrest.

"During a cardiac arrest, all three criteria of death are present. There then follows a period of time, which may last from a few seconds to an hour or more, in which emergency medical efforts may succeed in restarting the heart and reversing the dying process.

"What people experience during this period of cardiac arrest provides a unique window of understanding into what we are all likely to experience during the dying process."

Dr Parnia and medical colleagues will analyse the brain activity of 1,500 cardiac arrest survivors, and see whether they can recall the images in the pictures.

Hospitals involved include Addenbrookes in Cambridge, University Hospital in Birmingham and the Morriston in Swansea, as well as nine hospitals in the US.



0 Replies
 
gold einstein
 
  1  
Sat 28 Nov, 2009 08:18 am
Atti 16,17,18: - E accadde che mentre andavamo al luogo di preghiera, una serva con uno spirito, un demonio di divinazione, ci venne incontro. Essa forniva ai suoi signori molto guadagno praticando l’arte della predizione. Questa [ragazza] seguiva Paolo e noi e gridava, dicendo: “Questi uomini sono schiavi dell’Iddio Altissimo, che vi proclamano la via della salvezza”.  Questo continuò a fare per molti giorni. Infine Paolo se ne stancò e, voltatosi, disse allo spirito: “Ti ordino in nome di Gesù Cristo di uscire da lei”. Ed esso uscì in quella stessa ora.
ghost = evil spirit= demons
gold einstein
 
  1  
Sat 28 Nov, 2009 08:58 am
@gold einstein,
Acts 16,17,18:And it happened that while we went to the place of prayer, a servant with a spirit, a demon of divination, met us. It provides to its masters much gain by practicing the art of prediction. This [girl] followed Paul and us, and cried, saying: "These men are slaves of the Most High, who proclaims the way of salvation." This continued to do for many days. Finally Paul got tired and he turned and said to the spirit: "I order you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her." And it came out in that same hour.
ghost = evil spirit= demons
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Sat 28 Nov, 2009 09:10 am
@gold einstein,
gold einstein wrote:

Acts 16,17,18:And it happened that while we went to the place of prayer, a servant with a spirit, a demon of divination, met us. It provides to its masters much gain by practicing the art of prediction. This [girl] followed Paul and us, and cried, saying: "These men are slaves of the Most High, who proclaims the way of salvation." This continued to do for many days. Finally Paul got tired and he turned and said to the spirit: "I order you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her." And it came out in that same hour.
ghost = evil spirit= demons
I am a ghost currently hanging around inside a meat suit.
I am not evil. (Some fellows on this site will dispute that.)

I have gotten out of my meat suit a few times within
the last several decades; I did not do anything evil.


I suspect that u are another ghost inside another meat suit.
Are u evil ?





David
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Sat 27 Feb, 2010 10:39 pm
I am not certain whether I do or not. I like to say that as my mother was 1/2 Irish and 1/4 Hungarian, I was raised in a household where superstition was rampant.

I do believe that I saw a departed friend outside my door on the day of her funeral. My mother always said when you dream of the dead it is because they are trying to tell you something.

I have two questions:

1.) I thought Jews do not believe in ghosts, is that true? What then is a dybbuk?

2.) Is there ghost lore among peoples who believe in reincarnation?
0 Replies
 
Scatologist
 
  0  
Tue 21 Dec, 2010 04:54 pm
I am a Christian and I don't believe in ghosts, the supernormal, the paranormal and "unexplained" phenomena. It is my own belief that the stuff comes from psychosis and delusions. I can speak about this because I have stayed in "haunted" hotels, slept in morgues, camped outside of graveyards, attended seances, played Ouija, you name it, and there has never been a response or anything unusual. Besides, what the heck would be the ghosts' appearances? Do they appear as snakes, translucent bodies with form (entropically disfavored by the way), burning bushes, wisps of smoke, spaghetti monsters or heavily disfigured figures? How do I know I will be in the presence of a ghost? Does the ghost declare it is a ghost? Does the ghost think I am an unusual? Why are all ghosts upset, angry never happy? Are they all stalkers? It sure doesn't make much sense to me. Cue the music from the "Shawshank Redemption."
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Tue 21 Dec, 2010 05:20 pm
@Scatologist,
But, if as you say, you are a professed christian, you already believe in the supernormal. In your world, did god create everything?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Tue 21 Dec, 2010 06:17 pm
@Scatologist,
Quote:
Do they appear as snakes, translucent bodies with form (entropically disfavored by the way), burning bushes, wisps of smoke, spaghetti monsters or heavily disfigured figures?


They are all types of useless ghosts. What you want Scatty are ghosts which service your car once a week, do the dusting and make sure your pants are pressed. Get organised.
BillRM
 
  0  
Tue 21 Dec, 2010 07:00 pm
@Scatologist,
You as a Christian do not believe in the holy ghost or the millions of other supernormal bullshit in the bible?
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Tue 21 Dec, 2010 10:11 pm
Of course.
0 Replies
 
Bassist01202325323
 
  1  
Sat 21 May, 2011 02:06 pm
@beccagrl28,
I'm a Christian too. I've been on anti-depressants since I was eight years old. After I let Jesus into my life, I've only felt more confused and the meds aren't helping anymore. I don't want to disprove but I just want to know what you have to say
tenderfoot
 
  1  
Sat 21 May, 2011 10:15 pm
@Bassist01202325323,
Took you months to come up with that???
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Mon 23 May, 2011 03:52 pm
@spendius,

Quote:
Do they appear as snakes, translucent bodies with form (entropically disfavored by the way), burning bushes, wisps of smoke, spaghetti monsters or heavily disfigured figures?
spendius wrote:
They are all types of useless ghosts. What you want Scatty are ghosts which service your car once a week, do the dusting and make sure your pants are pressed. Get organised.
Thay shoud be properly remunerated.
How do thay wish to be paid, Spendius ??
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Tue 24 May, 2011 01:26 am
@chemist,
chemist wrote:
Just curious to know people's thoughts on ghosts. Smile Please share.
Some Christians believe in ghosts,
but not all of them.





David
wayne
 
  1  
Tue 24 May, 2011 01:30 am
@OmSigDAVID,
That's true, in my experience.
I've always thought that rather odd, seems to go quite against christianity imo.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Tue 24 May, 2011 04:03 pm
@wayne,
wayne wrote:
That's true, in my experience.
I've always thought that rather odd, seems to go quite against christianity imo.
I Respectfully disagree, Wayne.
I come from a Christian background. All of my relatives r Christians.
Over the years n decades, I have (unexpectedly) left my body several times and returned.
Most of those times, it happened on-the-job while I was taking testimony in Court.
I did not consider myself unChristian because of those experiences.
So far as I know, Jesus never told anyone not to DO that.
Everyone does it when his human body dies.
That is the difference between a living body and a dead one.

When I observed myself working in Court, from about a 30 foot distance,
the part of me that was out was a ghost. It was fun; felt good.

I know many people who have returned from death,
who agree with me. Most of them r Christians. www.IANDS.org

Do u think that Jesus was anti-ghost ?





David
wayne
 
  1  
Tue 24 May, 2011 04:40 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
I can't say as I recall anything about Jesus being anti ghost.
I also grew up in a strong Christian environment, I suppose a lot depends upon what our elders believed when we were taught.
I was left with the impression that Christians didn't take part in things related to the occult.
But I can't say that is necessarily the way.
I have Christian friends who are quite interested in ghosts and such.
It just seems odd, given my upbringing.
 

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