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Hi all again!

 
 
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2007 11:21 pm
It's been a long time since I posted here, and only a night like tonight would force me to bother you all for more advice! Actually I'm not sure it's advice I need so much as the desire to vent a little.

First, an update, so you can see how great you all were first time around. The first time I posted, my wife was gone in Vegas having a great time without me and I got a little jealous and paranoid about the whole situation. Posting here at A2K was such a stabilizing influence in that scenario and I'd like to thank you again for the great, honest and direct comments you had for me back then. A year later, in March 2007, following the advice given here at this forum, I went with her to the same event and met all the people she spent that time with a year before, putting faces to names -- what a wonderful relief to know that they were all very nice people and totally welcomed me to the group -- my wife had a fantastic time with everyone and moreover I wasn't even that needy, which is a veritable milestone of an improvement over the year before! Although it isn't really my scene (sitting around in bars and chatting to lots of people I don't know very well, even if it was fun at times) I actually had a great time and found my wife so sexy in that environment; she totally knocked 'em dead every night and I felt so damn proud of her.

Another valuable piece of advice I received here at A2K that first time was to try to find an adult couple that me and my wife could spend time with. Well we've done that; my wife is a little closer to the girl than I am the guy, but still the guy and I get along very well and actually do some stuff by ourselves now fairly often.

Well what brings me to TONIGHT is along the same vein as before. Back a few months ago, my wife and the girl in that relationship decided they want to go to Europe together on a backpacking trip; you know, hostels and the like. It ended up being a much longer trip than I thought - almost a month - which kind of shocked me, but I swallowed any reservations I had in the interests of her being able to do something she may never get to do again in quite the same way. She's 25 with our 4 year old son and I don't ever want her to regret getting married so I really welcomed this in a roundabout way.

I emphasized how important her safety is to me while in Europe, and gave her a cellphone and booked her into hostels with internet access so she can keep in touch. Every night so far (the past 10 days or so) she's called me for a few minutes to chat. I miss her like crazy, and she says she misses me a lot too. I received emails everyday from Europe too, and that's great.

Now. The last phonecall had to be very short because other people needed the phone. Yesterday in her email she told me she was looking forward to a much longer conversation tonight. This morning, I get a short email from her from Budapest where she says they're going to go to a Turkish bath... sounds interesting,... and she'll email me a proper longer email after she gets back to her hostel. Well.... I never got an email. I wondered what happened to the email, but it didn't bother me a whole lot.... I was just looking forward to the phonecall. Well... the phonecall didn't come at the usual time either, so naturally I wondered if everything was ok. I waited until it was 2am in Budapest before getting so worried that I called her hostel. The girl who answered said that her and her friend went to the bar and hadn't returned yet! This is my wife who, just the night before, had said she didn't want to go out at night to find a callbox because she didn't feel safe.... now she's at a BAR? Who did they go with? She said the previous day that her and her friend went out for a drink with a guy... I didn't say anything but I was a little uncomfortable even with that. Now I hear she's still at the bar, in BUDAPEST, after 2am? I asked the girl to tell her to call me when she got in.

Hours went by, no phonecall. I began to get very, very worried. All kinds of scenarios went through my head, and I tried her cellphone a total of probably 50 or 60 times. I called AT&T Wireless because I wondered if her phone was really ringing (hard to tell internationally) or if it was switched off. He told me it was really ringing. That made me even more concerned, and I began to feel sick. I didn't eat any dinner, and sat home with the phone in my hand, doing nothing but dialing and waiting. I tried to watch TV, but it didn't work. All I could think about was my wife and what might have happened.

Finally, at around 5:45am in Budapest, she answered her cellphone. it sounded like she was wide awake, perfectly normal. I didn't say anything about worrying, but I was so glad to hear her voice I cried while I said, I'll talk to you later. She asked if I was ok, and told me she couldn't email me because the computer was switched off at night, and couldn't call either. She said the girl told her I called.

1) So there were no phones at the bar?

2) She didn't keep her cellphone on her like she promised

3) The computer was only switched off at night, not before she left for the bar

4) She got back after 5am?????

5) She was told I called when she arrived in, but couldn't call me to see what was up?


Okay, here's the question. Am I being paranoid, controlling, weird, and/or worried for no reason? Am I now slightly angry for no good reason, or would you be a little miffed too? Honestly it was her first night not calling, and her first time missing an email that she said she'd send, first night at the bar PERIOD, let alone that late (except the time when they went for the drink with that other guy which was during the day).

Isn't this poor judgment on her part? I worried myself sick; I even took a shower with the phone right beside me in case it rang. I hate the way this incident made me feel.

Okay, I'm working myself up about it again. You guys helped me out so much before, and really we're in a much better spot -- but this kind of thing just really gets to me more than anything else. I feel hurt and betrayed by what I perceive as her lack of thoughtfulness - she says she thinks and talks about me all the time - how come she can't remember to call me when she says she will, even if it's only for my benefit and not her own?
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martybarker
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2007 11:58 pm
I would have to agree that a phone call would have been nice. However, I just went to Europe with girlfriend in April and it was difficult for her to keep in touch with her boyfriend. The time change was a big part of it. Plus we were pretty busy running around trying to see the sites that by time evening came around we were exhausted.

My gut tells me that she is remaining faithful but still exploring her independance for a bit.

Try not to worry too much, I'm sure everything is just fine.
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eclectic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Jun, 2007 12:55 am
I agree with Marty. I can understand how you feel, but I can also understand how your wife is feeling. She's doing something really exciting, enjoying an opportunity which might not come her way again. She wants to savor the moments. Even the most loving, committed spouse sometimes needs some space, some time without his/her partner.

And I can tell you, from experience, that being too needy can be poisonous to a relationship. You've taken some great steps to address your neediness; keep up the good work.
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irishhusband
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Jun, 2007 01:36 am
Thank you guys, I agree with you in theory, but I'm really just feeling angry right now. I don't know exactly how to explain it but I feel betrayed by the simple fact that she couldn't think about me once in a six hour period enough to know that I'd be worried and to check in. And I guess I'll have to work on feeling comfortable with her going to a bar until five in the f***ing morning... if she thinks that's a great idea then I'm going to have to work on accepting that, but it isn't giving me any confidence sitting at home on this side of the Atlantic. I believe she's been incredibly unthoughtful. Am I wrong?

Right now I'm just trying to keep this angry side of my reaction to this on A2K and off the phone with her. When she calls later I don't want to be angry or make a big deal out of this, but somehow I'm not sure I'm going to be able to disguise it well enough.
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irishhusband
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Jun, 2007 01:46 am
Re-reading my original post, I realize it sounds like I considered the possibility that she might have been unfaithful. That's not the case at all. I'm absolutely positive that her and her friend stuck together and all that, and I know she wouldn't do anything but maybe some mild flirting. But there are two things going on: first my biggest concern was her safety - when I said all the endless scenarios were running through my head, I meant of what horrible thing could have happened to her (date-rape, assaulted on the way back to her hostel, etc.) and second this jealousy runs through me because I really would have loved to spend this vacation with her (I had to stay and work).

I'm really trying hard to be happy for her and just forget this whole thing, but it's rubbed me the wrong way and I have issues I guess. At the moment I still can't sleep 4 hours after I talked to her for that one minute call where I finally worked out she was alright (5:45am for her). She says I should keep my computer on so she can email me "a little later" when she can get on the computer - right now it's 9:45am there so it's definitely daytime, but that's early when you stayed up until five in the f***king morning partying with people you didn't know and ignoring the fact that your husband is worrying himself sick about you. I told myself I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the email, but - sure enough - I'm in bed with my laptop waiting for the damn thing to come through.

Am I this neurotic?
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eclectic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Jun, 2007 02:10 am
I totally understand what you're feeling.

Still, haven't you been in a situation where you were so wrapped up in the moment you weren't thinking of anything else? Did that mean you didn't care about the people you loved, or was it simply that you were enjoying yourself?

And here's another possibility: Suppose you're out with Joe Schmo, its 11 PM and you told the wife you'd be home by now. Joe says he wants another drink, and you say yes because you're enjoying the conversation (or maybe the game on TV), and because you don't want to disappoint Joe. The next thing you know its 1 AM. Shocked You didn't deliberately set out to make your wife angry. You simply didn't think.

I don't have a clue what the crime rate is in Budapest, but I can't imagine its any worse than any American city. The thing is, worrying about "what ifs" doesn't help anything. She's an adult; she knows how to take care of herself.
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JPB
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Jun, 2007 07:51 am
I think she is enjoying the night life in Budapest in a similar fashion to the way she enjoys the night life in Vegas.

You sent her off on a month-long trip to Europe with certain conditions that you both thought would be easy enough to keep. Now, she's having a ball and you're worrying yourself sick. She's being her normal self and so are you. Old habits die hard.
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dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Jun, 2007 09:14 am
I have been in a similar situation. (wife overseas for a holiday)

If your wife were injured attacked or date raped is there anything you could do about it? Immediatly I mean?
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Jun, 2007 10:04 am
I have some doubt that places close in Budapest at 2 a.m. I think you are getting worked up over nothing. Have you never stayed up through the wee hours on vacation? So my first reaction is to say, get a grip.

My second is to say we don't own each other's minutes - also get a grip.

Third is to say, suppose your roiling imagination actually pinpointed her really straying instead of just having fun? If she suddenly wants to leave you, that would become apparent. In the meantime, there is nothing, to me, that you can do to further that happening that would be less efficient than freaking out on the phone about her staying out late and not calling.
She is not four years old.
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irishhusband
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Jun, 2007 10:40 am
Thanks for your brutal honesty.

At 12pm (budapest), 3am (here) I had fallen asleep but had my computer beside me with the email notification set to high. An email came through from her which said, "I am so sorry for being late, and not calling you, making you worry. I cant even tell you... I am just sorry. I heard the panic in your voice last night whenever you finally got a hold of me. I am sorry that I ever had to do that to you. You have nothing to worry about last night. ******** and I went out for dinner with a group of the people here and we stayed with them until they were ready to come home, which was really late. Everything was safe though... I wish I had at least e-mailed you to tell you I was going out, I had no idea it was so late though. Once I got back though I had a note for me saying you had called, and I noticed all the missed calls on my cell phone. I didnt take my purse with me, and the phone was in my purse. When I heard your voice I was just sick. I am so sorry. I cant tell you that enough."

Instantly I felt better to hear that they were with a bunch of people they had met along the way and that they were all sticking together. Shortly after this email we had a long phone conversation which I kept my anger out of completely, we just talked about what happened. I notice she said in her email "dinner" and left out the fact that it STARTED with dinner, the rest of the time was spent basically bar crawling through Budapest! I told her she didn't need to filter things like that for me, just tell the truth. It can't be good when my wife feels she can't tell me stuff that she did, straight out, in case I'd be upset. Is that my problem or hers?

She says she's gotten it out of her system now and won't be interested in doing that again, but how do I know if she's being truthful and not just telling me what she thinks I'd feel better for hearing? I have the same thoughts when I read her latest email: "After talking with you I was thinking about how great it is that after 6 years of marriage you still worry like you did. And at the same time I feel as bad as I did for making you worry. That is a very good thing I think. I will not be doing that again anytime soon though (or ever for that matter). I love you to pieces and am so looking forward to coming home." Again I'm not entirely sure that she's not just trying to make me feel better.

In any case, the last thing I want to do is ruin her vacation by putting any pressure on her either way, so I'm going to write her a message now saying that I'm behind her no matter what she wants to do, but at the same time if she wants a sane husband by the time she gets back she might want to remember to call me when she says she will and keep her cellphone with her in case she forgets.

I think that's fair?
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Jun, 2007 11:22 am
irishhusband wrote:
She says she's gotten it out of her system now and won't be interested in doing that again, but how do I know if she's being truthful and not just telling me what she thinks I'd feel better for hearing? I have the same thoughts when I read her latest email: "After talking with you I was thinking about how great it is that after 6 years of marriage you still worry like you did. And at the same time I feel as bad as I did for making you worry. That is a very good thing I think. I will not be doing that again anytime soon though (or ever for that matter). I love you to pieces and am so looking forward to coming home." Again I'm not entirely sure that she's not just trying to make me feel better.


Wooboy! You need to get a grip, man. No one ever KNOWS what someone else is thinking when they say what they say. You either have faith in your wife to be honest with you, or you don't.

irishhusband wrote:
In any case, the last thing I want to do is ruin her vacation by putting any pressure on her either way, so I'm going to write her a message now saying that I'm behind her no matter what she wants to do, but at the same time if she wants a sane husband by the time she gets back she might want to remember to call me when she says she will and keep her cellphone with her in case she forgets.

I think that's fair?


It sounds like she's on an overseas leash.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Jun, 2007 11:45 am
What in the world is wrong with barcrawling with a group of friends in the wee hours, on vacation?

This leash thing is icky.

This whole thing is more about your basic underlying fears and insecurites than it is about her adult behavior.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Jun, 2007 12:50 pm
Hi irishhusband, I remember you. Glad that you guys got past that rough spot last year.

I understand both sides of this. My husband's a major worrier and we had some similar incidents when I was living in England and wasn't able to contact him at agreed times.

I think all the same principles apply as in the Vegas thing, just this is even bigger. Relax, trust her, and busy yourself at home. Hang out with the guy, the husband of the traveling companion. Do stuff together that the gals usually don't enjoy. Talk to him about it -- he's probably going through similar pangs. But try your best not to lay too much at her feet.
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caribou
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Jun, 2007 12:59 pm
I agree. Chill.

Take a deep breath. Take a couple of deep breaths. And then go find something to occupy yourself with. Do you have any hobbies?

It's her vacation, let her enjoy it. Trust her.

Does she have to call you every day? Won't it be nice for her to call you when she misses you and wants to hear your voice? She's an adult, you're an adult. Stop acting like her Overprotective Father. Give her space. Go find something else to do with your time other than worrying about her constantly. Then you'll have something interesting to say to her when you do talk, instead of how much you miss her...and questioning how she's spending her time.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Jun, 2007 06:14 pm
And don't call her 50 or 60 times again. That is a kind of hysterics. (Sorry, I'm the blunt one.)
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irishhusband
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Jun, 2007 06:32 pm
Okay, well I have told her that I don't want to infringe on her vacation time or tell her what to do... maybe your point is that I'm saying one thing and demanding another. One way to see this simply that both partners have needs in a marriage and one of my needs is to know that she's safe and be able to chat with her while she's gone. I guess I don't see how it's wrong of me to need that from my wife or wrong of her to feel a responsibility to give it. However-

Ossobuco, I agree calling her cellphone that many times was hysterical. (Actually it turned out to be 37 missed calls, but the point remains.) I was in a panic about what had happened. I also agree that there's nothing wrong with bar crawling on vacation early in the morning, ...I think...

Caribou, yes I have plenty going on but I just don't seem to have the desire to do anything much... maybe I just have to force myself. And I really appreciate your suggestion not to schedule any phonecalls with her from now on... I think I'll put that into effect straightaway. I don't even really know how it got to the stage of arranging phonecalls and emails, it started out simply that she always called me at around the same time and I got scared when she didn't. But believe it or not, she's the one who constantly requests long emails from me while she's away. She loves to wake up and find I've been thinking about her and wrote her another email... though hers are never quite as long in return.

Sozobe, hi again and thanks. The guy who's the husband of my wife's traveling companion will be back in town tomorrow, so maybe he'll be a moderating influence!

JPB, the leash thing is the last thing I want her to feel.
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caribou
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Jun, 2007 10:15 pm
Well, let's see how to put this...
My Mother used to tell me to leave a little mystery. In that, you shouldn't always be waiting by the phone for someone to call...
I've taken that to mean that no matter how much you love someone, you don't live your life for them. Waiting, on hold, always available.
You living your own separate life, doing things that interest you, makes you a more interesting person.
Makes the person who you love more interested in you.
Do you see what I'm saying?
It's part of that whole thing about if you love someone, let them go.

Holding someone too tightly, sometimes only makes them rebel.

Ease up. Do force yourself to do other things rather than worry. Email her, call her. But keep it to, at the most, once a day, and short, and don't go on and on about how much you miss her...


(I'm notorious about not carrying my cell, I'd be freaking out seeing 37 missed calls!)
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Jun, 2007 11:37 pm
Shocked Dude. Relax. Your wife loves you very much and it is beyond obvious. If there was any doubt in her mind, whatsoever, instead of apologizing to you after seeing 37 missed calls; she would have told you to go f*ck yourself. That's not worried, and it's not reasonable. That's stalker crazy! Yes, people have different needs. That doesn't make it cool for yours to be to have your wife's time on vacation revolve around your incredible insecurity. Rest assured; she loves you. No one would put up with that nutty sh!t (37 calls) for any other reason.
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sakhi
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jul, 2007 11:38 pm
Yes, I agree with OCCOM BILL.

She loves you very much and remember -she's "putting" up with your calls. You got to trust her, not just about cheating but also about being able to take care of herself. Every woman has a strong instinct to keep herself from being harmed. Yes, there's always a chance with anybody's spouse that they might cheat or that they may get assaulted - I mean, it's not impossible. But you can't think of ALL the bad possiblities and become anxious.

I might just do something like what your wife did and that;s really not because i met someone more interesting than my husband or because I got assaulted. It's simply because I'm forgetful.

I agree - anyone would worry for their loved ones - but you really need to take care not to tranfer that worry on to her (dont call her so often!!!) and not suffocate her with that kind of "love"
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irishhusband
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jul, 2007 04:32 pm
Well thanks guys. Sometimes it's just good to hear other people say it, and everything in my head tells me it's irrational to fear or be uncomfortable with these kind of scenarios. If anything right now I hope she keeps doing these things because maybe that's what it'll take to get me to be okay with them. They're going to a music festival on Wednesday morning, 2 hours from where they're staying. The band they want to see is done at 11:30pm but the festival goes on till about 2:30am. Some in her group want to hang out all night and find a pub in the wee hours with dancing; she'd rather go back to the hostel and get to bed around 3:30 or so, with a few hours of sleep. I've gotta say that makes me a whole lot more comfortable and makes me feel a lot better. Whether that's a fault of mine or not, it's how I feel - though I'm trying harder now not to be so overbearing about it and just trust her to look after herself well. I thank you for your help.
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