0
   

Why do I see a lawsuit coming???

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jul, 2007 05:55 am
Here we go again. The "spelling" convention which David attempts to foist onto others lacks precision: does "n" mean "n," or does it mean "an" or does it mean "and?" This may not be a problem for a native speaker of English in most situations, since they can rely on context. The same cannot be said for literally hundreds of millions (if not actually billions) of people who learn standard English for sound professional reasons, but who will lack the sophisticated understanding of English to infer meanings from context. Given that many, if not most, of those hundreds of millions are learning English, quixotic spellings such as those David uses serve only to introduce confusion.

There are other reasonable objections to it, as well. A major one is that it is based on what David considers the appropriate pronunciation of words, and therefore is a parochial conceit. Would he write schedule as "skedyul?" To the native speakers of English in every other English-speaking nation other than the United States, that word is pronounced "shedyule." The examples of pronunciation distinctions are numerous. Others arise from imprecision. David chooses to spell could, should and would as "cud," "shud" and "wud." Do cows chew the "could?" Does "wud" mean would or wood? Even if David does not pronounce the "l" in these words, others do. Does "r" stand for "are," or does it stand for "our?"

Theodore Roosevelt, Jr. attempted to foster "rational" spelling when he was the President, although he was canny enough not to require it, not to attempt to enforce it. He failed. David will fail as well. In the meantime, he will only have made what he writes difficult to decipher, and not necessarily easier, and he will have confused the non-native speaker of English, especially those who are attempting to learn.

I've pointed all of these things out more than once--as with the annoying and difficult to read bold-faced, large font writing, the evidence is that David does not actually care if it is true that what he writes is easier to read, he's just hard-headed and intends to insist on doing things his way, and everyone else be damned.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jul, 2007 07:53 am
ossobuco wrote:
Many a2kers put piquant little notes into tiny tiny script, and I have to click on view and enlarge that several times to see it, so that mostly annoys me too - I'd rather people who do that do it one size larger. But, that's me.


I quote the post in question, which brings the font up to regular size.

David, ehBeth mentioned some ways to adjust size. I Googled "Free software for vision impaired" and got a bunch of results that look useful. A sampling:

http://www.sharewareconnection.com/vision-suit.htm

http://mozbraille.mozdev.org/

http://www.theabsolute.net/sware/index.html#smagnify (Super Magnify)

This one looks especially good:

http://www.screenreader.net/


Anyway, that's just the results of some quick research, there is PLENTY out there.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jul, 2007 08:17 am
sozobe wrote:
ossobuco wrote:
Many a2kers put piquant little notes into tiny tiny script, and I have to click on view and enlarge that several times to see it, so that mostly annoys me too - I'd rather people who do that do it one size larger. But, that's me.


I quote the post in question, which brings the font up to regular size.

David, ehBeth mentioned some ways to adjust size. I Googled "Free software for vision impaired" and got a bunch of results that look useful. A sampling:

http://www.sharewareconnection.com/vision-suit.htm

http://mozbraille.mozdev.org/

http://www.theabsolute.net/sware/index.html#smagnify (Super Magnify)

This one looks especially good:

http://www.screenreader.net/


Anyway, that's just the results of some quick research, there is PLENTY out there.

Thank u, Sozobe.
I ' ll look into it; very kind of u.
David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jul, 2007 08:30 am
ehBeth wrote:

Quote:
David - do you use Internet Explorer or Firefox?

Yes; Internet Explorer


Quote:
Both of them have text size 'adaptors' built into their tool bars.

Firefox has it in the drop down from "view" (upper left of toolbar).

Internet Explorer has it in the drop down from "page" (right side of toolbar) -

you have a choice of text size or zoom.

Mine is under " View "

I already have it up all the way
to the maximum size of text.

I am grateful for your concern, ehBeth.
David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jul, 2007 09:57 am
OK; firstly, I am going to disregard the harsh tone
in which u have chosen to cast your post
( " stix and stones... "; I suppose it does not really hurt anything )
because u have raised some interesting
points, with varying degrees of merit,
that deserve to be considered.


Setanta wrote:

Quote:
Here we go again.
The "spelling" convention which David attempts to foist onto others lacks precision:
does "n" mean "n," or does it mean "an" or does it mean "and?"

OK; u caught me there,
fair n square. I had not thought of that.
I have always used n to represent the word and,
inasmuch as it is sometimes pronounced that way,
and it is faster; that usage was created in deference to speed and ease.






Quote:
This may not be a problem for a native speaker of English in most situations, since they can rely on context. The same cannot be said for literally hundreds of millions (if not actually billions) of people who learn standard English for sound professional reasons, but who will lack the sophisticated understanding of English to infer meanings from context. Given that many, if not most, of those hundreds of millions are learning English, quixotic spellings such as those David uses serve only to introduce confusion.

OK.
I will also concede that point.

When I am directly addressing someone who I know
to be in that situation, then I am sensitive to that
and try to help him out, as the occasion requires.
For the most part, the people whom I address
r fully conversant with English and don 't need much support in this regard.



Quote:
There are other reasonable objections to it, as well.
A major one is that it is based on what David considers the appropriate pronunciation of words,
and therefore is a parochial conceit.

This is true.
I have been promoting the Tom Brokaw mode of English speech
as the world wide standard. I have expected to be attacked more forcefully
for parochial arrogance than I have been; perhaps that is yet to come.




Quote:
Would he write schedule as "skedyul?"

I 'd write it : " skedule "; I can see your way too,
with the understanding that it is only one syllable.
Please note that I have no wish to be the final arbiter
of polished to perfection fonetic spelling.
I leave that to specialists.
I merely seek to show that the old paradime is illogical
( for modern pronunciation, as distinct from obsolete older Germanic forms ),
to accelerate the abandonment of the few non-fonetic forms
( e.g., the " UGH " that is added, uselessly, to the word tho ).

The vast majority of English is ALREADY fonetic.
That is Y children have been told to " sound it out " when learning to read.





Quote:
To the native speakers of English in every other English-speaking nation other than the United States,
that word is pronounced "shedyule."

The examples of pronunciation distinctions are numerous.

This is true: enter Mr. Brokaw.




Quote:
Others arise from imprecision.
David chooses to spell could, should and would as "cud," "shud" and "wud."

Do cows chew the "could?"

Again, I concede the point as to cows' chewing material.

This arises from my belief that reference to fenomena
of bovine mastication is so infrequent, as to be negligible.



Quote:
Does "wud" mean would or wood?

I wud have the teaching in school be that the current spelling of wood
will remain intact and undisturbed.




Quote:
Even if David does not pronounce the "l" in these words, others do.

THIS assertion comes as a big surprize.

I have never heard anyone try to do that.
I fear that an endeavor to accomplish that wud entail
unnecessary peril of sprain of the TMJ.



Quote:
Does "r" stand for "are," or does it stand for "our?"

The concept here is that in the word " are " only the middle letter
is ever pronounced; hence, the other 2 letters r wasted n of no value.
Note, incidentally, that I advocate retaining use of silent letters,
if thay r of use as guides to pronounciation; e.g., I 'd preserve
the e in Rome, inasmuch as it tells us to apply a long O.




Quote:
Theodore Roosevelt, Jr. attempted to foster "rational" spelling when he was the President,

Thank u for bringing that up.



Quote:
although he was canny enough not to require it, not to attempt to enforce it.

I was under the impression that he attempted to require the use of
fonetic spelling within the Executive Branch, but that Congress defeated him.
However, I have not confirmed this.
U might be right.




Quote:
He failed. David will fail as well.

On that last point, we disagree.
In my opinion, continuing to carry ( indefinitely )
such a useless burden is doomed; I have compared it
to everyone carrying around 10 pounds of useless iron all the time,
in deference only to TRADITION.
Inevitably, at some point, our species will say that enuf is enuf,
and abandon the non-functional burden, regardless of whether I had ever existed.

I contrast the few non-fonetic aspects of English
against Spanish, which is almost entirely fonetic,
thus easier, faster n more logical. With our species having that staring
it in the face, the useless burden part of English is doomed,
regardless of me. I just like to help.
I feel guilty and illogical for those many decades
during which I was guilty of complicity in perpetration
and perpetuation of the few non-fonetic parts of English spelling.





Quote:

In the meantime, he will only have made what he writes difficult to decipher,
and not necessarily easier,
and he will have confused the non-native speaker of English,
especially those who are attempting to learn.

I don 't like the metric system,
because I grew up with English measurements.
However, I know that success of the metric system
is INEVITABLE, regardless of my personal dislike of it,
because a system based on 10 is inherently better and easier.

The same principle applies to fonetic spelling.
The REASON for all of this resistance and hostility to it
is torpor; u all already LEARNED it the other way
and u r accustomed to it that way.

Children of the future will have no problem in learning it
the natural, fonetic way.




Quote:
I've pointed all of these things out more than once--
as with the annoying and difficult to read bold-faced, large font writing,
the evidence is that David does not actually care
if it is true that what he writes is easier to read,

I CARE.



Quote:

he's just hard-headed and intends to insist on doing things his way,

I AM hardheaded; can 't deny that.


Quote:

and everyone else be damned.

NO.
Altho in other parts of my filisofy,
I do apply an everyone else be damned policy,
that is not true of fonetic spelling.
I am trying to be helpful to the extant generation
and to posterity. I am fully sincere.
David
0 Replies
 
brendalee
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jul, 2007 07:12 am
Spelling
Did you make all that stuff up ? You must have walked the dogs in the rain too long.
Just seeing if you are paying attention.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jul, 2007 07:32 am
Are you paying attention? Or are you just watching all those affluent ladies going into the Eaton Center?
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jul, 2007 12:03 pm
This is very encouraging Very Happy
0 Replies
 
NickFun
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jul, 2007 05:18 pm
Setanta wrote:
Are you paying attention? Or are you just watching all those affluent ladies going into the Eaton Center?


Do you mean AFFLUENT or EFFLUENT?
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jul, 2007 05:19 pm
oy oy oy Nick! don't be disparaging your fellow A2K posters Twisted Evil
0 Replies
 
 

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