Why do I see a lawsuit coming???

You think he was running? He was staggering! All you had to do was hold the mans arm.

OmSigDAVID wrote:

FreeDuck wrote:

I just want to go on record as saying that
whether he was drunk or in diabetic shock he should have been treated with compassion.
I realize that the actual events are still debatable, just wanted to have my say.

Does that mean that the conductor
shud have been treating him with compassion
while running along side of him, when he fled into the woods ?

David

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You think he was running?

I don 't have that information.

Quote:

He was staggering!

O !
I guess u know.

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All you had to do was hold the mans arm.

If u hold his arm,
does that improve the state of his health ?

Do have the right to grab him ?

According to the Williams Police Department lieutenant, when Sims was kicked off the train he took off running into the woods before the officer could make contact. It was pitch dark and in the middle of the night.

If you think it's a lie Joe, show that it is a lie. Without another source for this, the only evidence we have is what has been presented here, or what we can find online. Have you found anything which contradicts the conductor's version? As for the silliness you wrote to the effect that: If he is in their custody, they are to hold him until the police actually take over custody--i'll just refere you to Squinney's post:

squinney wrote:

Dunno. Can the conductor physically restrain him? Was he supposed to tackle the guy? Grab his arm? What if he left a bruise in doing so? What if the guy started 'wrestlin' back? Is the conductor supposed to put himself in harms way?

Setanta wrote:

If you think it's a lie Joe, show that it is a lie. Without another source for this, the only evidence we have is what has been presented here, or what we can find online. Have you found anything which contradicts the conductor's version? As for the silliness you wrote to the effect that: If he is in their custody, they are to hold him until the police actually take over custody--i'll just refere you to Squinney's post:

squinney wrote:

Dunno. Can the conductor physically restrain him? Was he supposed to tackle the guy? Grab his arm? What if he left a bruise in doing so? What if the guy started 'wrestlin' back? Is the conductor supposed to put himself in harms way?

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Well, let's see. I did say, boss, did I not, that it was just a gut feeling.

What do we know? We know the conductor was able to get the guy off of his seat, down the aisle of the train car WITH his luggage (No easy trick to do on one's own I can tell you.) then through first, the car door and then the door that swings in to allow persons to descend the stairs to the platform. That's a pretty neat trick to perform if the person was resistant in any way.

If the passenger was coherent to do all that on his own I think I would question just how disorderly he was being.

And, to answer the "could he lay hands upon him? question, the answer is yes.
This is Indiana Law but I'd bet it's boilerplate for any state with passenger train service.
Link Here.
IC 8-3-18
Chapter 18. Conductor's Police Power
IC 8-3-18-1
Authority
Sec. 1. The conductors of all trains carrying passengers within this
state shall be invested with police powers while on duty on their
respective trains.
(Formerly: Acts 1875, c.84, s.1.)
IC 8-3-18-2
Ejection of passengers; refund of fare
Sec. 2. When any passenger shall be guilty of disorderly conduct,
or use any obscene language, or play any games of cards or chance
for money upon any passenger trains, the conductor of such train is
hereby authorized to stop his train at any place where such offense
has been committed, and eject such passenger from the train, using
only such force as may be necessary to accomplish such removal,
and may command the assistance of the employees of the railroad
company to assist in such removal; but, before doing so, he shall
tender to such passenger such proportion of the fare he has paid as
the distance he then is from the place to which he has paid his fare
bears to the whole distance for which he has paid his fare.
(Formerly: Acts 1875, c.84, s.2.)
IC 8-3-18-3
Arrest of passenger; delivery before court; affidavit
Sec. 3. When any passenger commits a crime upon any passenger
train, the conductor of the train may arrest the passenger and take
him before a court in the county in which the crime is committed,
and file an affidavit charging him with the crime.
(Formerly: Acts 1875, c.84, s.3.) As amended by Acts 1978, P.L.2,
SEC.823.

So, we'll see.

Joe(I wonder if he got his refund??)Nation

Joe:
the " could he lay hands upon him ? " question
arose on this thread,
within the context of whether the ex-passenger
cud legally be restrained from leaving the area,
AFTER he had already been ejected from the train.

Please note that the statute that u have quoted
in support of the assertion that the conductor HAD authority
to restrain the ex-passenger from leaving the area and running into the woods
after he had been removed from the train, in fact,
declares THE OPPOSITE, hence:
" ... the conductor of such train is
hereby authorized to stop his train at any place where such offense
has been committed,
and eject such passenger from the train, using
ONLY such force as may be necessary
to accomplish such removal... " [ emfasis added ]
This means that the conductor was statutorily authorized
ONLY to remove him from the train,
NOT to stop him from leaving after he had been thrown off the train,
unless he had committed a crime against another passenger
while he was still on the train,
which is not alleged within this pattern of facts.

The quoted statutory grant of authority
ENDED the instant that there was any space
between the ex-passenger and the train from which he was ejected.


David

using
ONLY such force as may be necessary
to accomplish such removal... " [ emfasis added ]

OmSigDavid wrote:

using
ONLY such force as may be necessary
to accomplish such removal... " [ emfasis added ]

Emfasis added... David you're a riot.

(But, I concur with the reading of the statute as posted.)

NickFun wrote:

You think he was running? He was staggering! All you had to do was hold the mans arm.

Your source for that?

PS to david, sorry, DAVID

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DAVID keeps asking about the agitated guy who wanted to buy a hatchet from our hareware store.
(I'm very good at talking to agitated people.)

Sorry for the redundance.

That 's just the way my brain
is wired up: sometimes CURIOUSITY grabs it
and won 't let go until I feed it some information.

Quote:

So, DAVID, The guy was clearly high on something, talking about some people somewhere and needing a hatchet. R I G H T A W A Y.

I did a lot of talking, not fast talking, slow talking, I asked about how other things were going, said I hadn't seen him for awhile (I'd never seen him) and that he looked better than I remembered. He seemed to like that.

He thoughtfully showed me his knife which he ruefully said would not be enough to do the job.
I told him he was right, but the thing of it was, I said sadly,
we sold out of hatchets last night.
We didn't have a one left.

Clever; I got a good laff out of that.

I 'm glad he didn 't ask about axes.

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Okay, now we have to get lawyerly about this:
the police had been called to take the person into custody.

That is, there was a transfer of custody anticipated,
otherwise why call the police?

Thank u, counsellor.

In your professional opinion,
did the subjective anticipations of the RR
operate to void the right of the ex-passenger
to leave RR platform ?

Quote:

I believe the failure of the train's personnel to fully conduct
(no pun intended) their police powers will be an issue in any lawsuit.

That may very well prove to be the case.

Quote:

Sec. 1. The conductors of all trains carrying passengers
within this state shall be invested with police powers while on duty on their respective trains.


I'll bet the train companies don't limit that authority to the train proper
but extend it to the stations, tracks, switching equipment, towers
and any other property they have an interest in.

U may win the bet,
but I question whether THE LEGISLATURE
granted any authority to the conductor
concerning matters that did not take place on the train,
e.g., an ex-passenger 's travel plans AFTER he has been separated
from the train.

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Otherwise a hobo could be thrown off the railcar but not removed from the switchyard.

I respectfully submit
that removing a tresspasser from realty
is done under another, distinct, grant of legal authority
to owners of real property.

That is not the same as removing a disorderly passenger
( who paid his fare ) from a train.

David

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Railroads and railroad companies have had a long history
in this country of operating as kingdoms unto themselves.

Your assessment of history is accurate.

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That conductor's badge means a lot more than "Let me punch your ticket."
And they will tell you that without you asking.

So stipulated.
I believe their analogy is to captains of ships.

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This was somebody who didn't do their job (in so many ways)
and there will be consequences.

For the sake of argument,
assuming liability, I foresee some problems
for plaintiff 's counsel in proving damages.

David

Joe(some gnashing of teeth)Nation