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Habsburg - Hapsburg

 
 
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 05:31 am
From at least 960 onwards (when Werner I [died 1096] bore the title Count of Habsburg [castle on the Habsburg ("Habichtsburg" = "Hawk's Castle"]) the Habsburgs are called Haburgs ... until today.


Some spell it in English hapsburg, however.

According to Merriam-Webster, Habsburg (sic!) is a variant of Hapsburg.
(source)

The M-W Collegiate Dictionary gives as date "circa 1861".

My questions now: what happened at that time in 1861 that a "b" became a "p" .... and why do some still stuck to this wrong spelling?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 2 • Views: 3,783 • Replies: 10
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 07:01 am
Well, the pronunciation of "Habsburg" is "Hapsburg," because the unvoiced "s" turns the voiced "b" into an unvoiced "p." Why the spelling changed, though, is a mystery. Perhaps because Germans used a different alphabet, English translators may have decided that they were also transliterating as well as translating, and so they were free to change the spelling.
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flyboy804
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 07:20 am
We find the same thing with "Engelbert" and "Englebrecht" and "Albert" and "Albrecht".
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 07:25 am
Thanks, joe!

I suppose, the German "b" can easily be mistaken for .... even a 'p'.

http://i18.tinypic.com/52z4ydl.jpg


I was guessing, however, something might have happened around 1861 which led to this change.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 07:26 am
flyboy804 wrote:
We find the same thing with "Engelbert" and "Englebrecht" and "Albert" and "Albrecht".


Though those names are different here as well. :wink:
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old europe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 07:38 am
It happened to the "pretzel" as well....

Mysterious.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 07:39 am
Right ... it MUST be the German "B" and "b"!


But in Chicago ....

http://i11.tinypic.com/4miq7g1.jpg
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old europe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 07:53 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
But in Chicago ....


Ha! Good find!

It's also worth noting that there are various different spellings (Bretzel, Brezel, Brezl, Breze) in German. What they all have in common is the "B" as a first letter, though.

The Chicago variation rather seems to be a new import to the US (given that what they are selling is the genuine thing, not the mutation otherwise to be found) rather than a reversal to the original spelling.

And you can find some Americans who spell the Habsburgs Habsburgs, after all....
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 07:55 am
Joe, for instance, is one of them.
(But he's not only from Chicago but nearly an European, too - besides that he's mistaken about how to play cricket.)
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 10:06 am
I never play with crickets, personally . . . i just step on 'em . . .
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CyrilSebastian
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Jan, 2018 08:33 pm
Here are two different spellings.
The first video uses Hapsburgs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYdD67Hyyjc

The second video uses Habsburgs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAr_bK6_6hk
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