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Mon 18 Jun, 2007 04:05 am
Hi all, It's a long time since my last visit - sorry to be such an infrequent visitor and poster.
I just wanted to ask .. how long do you think it takes before you actually get to know your husband ... before you get to know who he is, what he is about on the inside.
Can anyone here truly say they totally know the person they married?
On this point, I feel like I'm drowning in quicksand.
Thanks for reading, I appreciate being able to come here and ask questions.
jazzie
Hi Jazzieb.
You NEVER truly know your partner / husband inside and out.
Things can always go wrong and you can be surprised. Just be careful.
Hi Dorothy ... I've had too many surprises in our short time together. I never know what's coming next. And I'm unsure how much of it I bring on myself or how much of it I just never saw coming.
The prob is that I know my girlfriends inside out emotionally & mentally. And they know me very well too. But my husband? He is closed. Distant. Aloof. Seperated. When things get tough, he just walks away or runs to his mum's house & I'm supposed to know (telepathically) why he's upset. He won't talk to me for hours on end and then sometimes he'll tell me the next day what I might have done to tick him off. I feel like I'm living in the dark with a stranger. I know I cannot replicate the relationship I have with my galpals with my husband, but man. Marriage is lonely.
How long has he been behaving like this?
If it's a recent thing, sounds like he's up to no good.
How long?
Since we got married. I busted him hiding a bunch of stuff from me, so now he doesn't tell me anything. I in turn don't tell him anything either because he went thru my things. This is arguably the lonliest relationship I've had in my life. I love this man, but I can't get thru to him.
He is protecting himself.
I am protecting myself.
We have both hurt each other a lot with hurtful words and accusations of 'your're not the person I thought I married'.
I try to understand who he is, but if I start getting close - that is, beyond the superficial stuff - he moves. He directs the conversation elsewhere. If I stay with the original conversation he just clams up. He won't speak. I cannot get initmate with him. And I want to.
He won't have marriage counselling, preferring instead to put it all back on to me by suggesting that if I took "responsiblilty" for my actions then everything would be okay. I'm on anti depressants for clinical depression (as of 6 months ago) and extra meds for anxiety. I take these so I can get thru the day.
Most of all, I don't feel as tho he wants to be with me. He says he does but words are cheap. If he did want to be with me, and if he wanted to be open, honest etc with me, then he wouldn't hide things from me. Right?
I'm exhausted trying to work out what's going on but I think he is trying to work out a way to get out of this marriage. I may be wrong, but my gut feelings are not often wrong.
I'm writing from the heart here so I'm sorry if this is TMI for some.
I want this marriage to work - but I get the feeling that I want too much. That is; an honest, open, sharing, communicative, energetic, proactive partner. Someone I can share my life with, intimately.
After getting married, I had counselling for months as I found the transition from single life to married life difficult because of his secrecy. So, I snooped thru his stuff to find out why he would avoid answering certain questions. I got nasty surprises. He lied to me.
I spent months reacting and railing internally against that. So then he snooped thru my stuff to see what was up. To see why I was so upset and angry every day. Only what he found was my therapy notes which were meant to be seen only by my counsellor. I poured my heart out into those notes. They were irrational, rambling, ranting, spewing words - angry, resentful, horrible words. My counsellor told me to get the bad words out so that we could get to the root of the problem.
I did that. He found them. He believed everything he read to be true - but they were knee-jerk words. Hateful words thrown onto paper so I could get them out of my body and free my mind up to work on therapy and depression (which was a new thing for me).
So.
We're back to being 2 seperate people living under the same roof. Walking in circles around each other. Hardly speaking. Being cordial. At one point, we didn't even have sex for nearly 3 months.
Before reading my notes, he told me I was the best thing that had ever happened to him in his life.
Now?
He is the most distant man I've ever been with and I don't know what to do about it.
Hey there, sorry to hear about your marriage problems.
Communication is one of the most important aspects of a relationship and if that falls apart then what do you have?
Can I ask why you got married? Things must have been OK before to have taken that step?
Ive recently separated from my husband of 10 mths due to his infidelity. He ended up being very secretive too, and i found out that he had been leading a double life. My instincts always told me that something wasnt right. I never listened to them. I wish I did.
Listen to your instincts. What are they telling you?
Hi Juanita - Thank you so much for your kind reply.
My instincts are out to sea. The tell me something is up but I don't know what's up. I can't put my finger on it. I am no angel to live with because I expect the person I open my heart to to share absolutely everything with me. And he doesn't. He keeps his little secrets from me.
Honestly? I feel as tho he is looking elsewhere.
I can't prove it. It's only my gut feeling.
Why did we get married? We got married because we genuinely felt we were right for each other. He represented everything I wanted in a man. I represented everything he wanted in a woman. Our hearts were in the right place. But that's the key word ... "represented". Perhaps we both projected on to the other what we wished for. Then when the reality turned up it didn't turn out to be as we'd hoped. I don't know. I am very confused about the whole thing.
The other thing is that my instincts my be totally wrong. I just don't know what's what anymore but I do know that if I ask him if he is fishing around for somebody else, he'll deny it. So there's no point in going down that road. He is a very non-confrontational man. The slightest confrontation has him running out the door - and he considers most questions as confrontations. He is a most uncommunicative individual and I am expected to use a crystal ball to work out what's going on. Getting him to verbalise his thoughts is like pulling teeth. This is the reason why my marriage is such a lonely experience to me. I feel like I'm talking to myself half the time and that gets old.
What to do. I don't know.
Jazzie--
Things look rather grim right now. You've described two strong-willed people, each with a grievance about violated privacy one of whom doesn't feel communication is necessary.
Is there any chance for marital counseling? Unless each of you does some changing, I don't see much hope.
Perhaps if you try and have a talk with him and start with telling him how his behaviour is making you feel.
Try and be open minded about what he might say.
Try not to be defensive, even if thats your first reaction, and try not to accuse him of seeing someone else because if your wrong then he will react badly.
Or maybe try and write things down in a letter for him to read?
You mentioned before that he is close with his family, perhaps if you speak to them and see if they can get through to him?
If this doesnt improve things perhaps you both need some time apart to sort out your issues.
Perhaps he feels betrayed about what he read in your notes previously?
Maybe hes scared?
Marriage is a huge commitment and maybe he feels over whelmed by it all.
Look dont give up. Im sure you will get through to him somehow.
The first year of marriage is always the hardest (so Ive been told).
Remember to look after number one, and try and be positive, i know its hard.
Jazzie, I'm involved w/domestic partner #3 (1&2 are now exhusbands,) and I must say that men don't respond like your women friends do, and marrieages don't usually replicate friendships you have w/your girlfriends. I've come to the conclusion that some degree of privacy and separation between a man and a woman who choose to be spouses may even be more functional... so I would suggest you let go of romantic notions of what married couple-ness is and just accept it for what it is... there are probably some parts which still feel warm and friendly and comfortable, even if they aren't the parts you expected to feel that way...
jazzie --
Quote:I try to understand who he is, but if I start getting close - that is, beyond the superficial stuff - he moves. He directs the conversation elsewhere. If I stay with the original conversation he just clams up. He won't speak. I cannot get initmate with him. And I want to.
Most of all, I don't feel as tho he wants to be with me. He says he does but words are cheap. If he did want to be with me, and if he wanted to be open, honest etc with me, then he wouldn't hide things from me. Right?
Basically, he doesn't care about you anymore. He's completely written you off, his mind is closed, he doesn't see you in a romantic way anymore. Whether or not you stay together or get divorced, your relationship is already over.
Quote:I want this marriage to work - but I get the feeling that I want too much. That is; an honest, open, sharing, communicative, energetic, proactive partner. Someone I can share my life with, intimately.
It's not too much to ask in general, but it doesn't sound like you're gonna get it from this guy ever.
Quote:Perhaps we both projected on to the other what we wished for. Then when the reality turned up it didn't turn out to be as we'd hoped. I don't know. I am very confused about the whole thing.
Sounds accurate. You didn't know him long enough before getting married to really get to know him. You just projected your imagination onto him.
Basically, the answer to this question:
Quote:I just wanted to ask .. how long do you think it takes before you actually get to know your husband ... before you get to know who he is, what he is about on the inside.
Should be: "Before you get married."
Princessp has a point. In my experience, there are a lot of men who are emotionally closed. Our society often rewards men for not expressing their thoughts and feelings, so it shouldn't be surprising. The fact is, most men I've known never share things the way girlfriends do. But that doesn't mean they have no feelings. And it doesn't mean they don't love you.
I know couples who have celebrated their 50th wedding anniversaries who seldom, if ever, communicate on the level you described. It's possible that you ARE expecting too much.
My husband is like that. We've been together for more than 25 years, and yet I rarely know what he is thinking or feeling. He keeps things to himself. It bothered me in the early years, until I grew up and learned to accept him for who he is. I know he loves me deeply by the things he does. As you said, words can be cheap. But actions...actions very rarely lie.
So...what do his actions tell you, jazzie? (Apart from his words, or lack of them.)
stuh505 wrote:jazzie --
Quote:I try to understand who he is, but if I start getting close - that is, beyond the superficial stuff - he moves. He directs the conversation elsewhere. If I stay with the original conversation he just clams up. He won't speak. I cannot get initmate with him. And I want to.
Most of all, I don't feel as tho he wants to be with me. He says he does but words are cheap. If he did want to be with me, and if he wanted to be open, honest etc with me, then he wouldn't hide things from me. Right?
Basically, he doesn't care about you anymore. He's completely written you off, his mind is closed, he doesn't see you in a romantic way anymore. Whether or not you stay together or get divorced, your relationship is already over.
Quote:I want this marriage to work - but I get the feeling that I want too much. That is; an honest, open, sharing, communicative, energetic, proactive partner. Someone I can share my life with, intimately.
It's not too much to ask in general, but it doesn't sound like you're gonna get it from this guy ever.
Quote:Perhaps we both projected on to the other what we wished for. Then when the reality turned up it didn't turn out to be as we'd hoped. I don't know. I am very confused about the whole thing.
Sounds accurate. You didn't know him long enough before getting married to really get to know him. You just projected your imagination onto him.
Basically, the answer to this question:
Quote:I just wanted to ask .. how long do you think it takes before you actually get to know your husband ... before you get to know who he is, what he is about on the inside.
Should be: "Before you get married."
Stuh - are you married? For how long, if so? The reason I ask is, in my opinion and the opinion of others I've talked to, its possible to love, live with and have a good partnership with someone for many years and still not "know" them inside and out.
One does not have to be married to recognize behavioral patterns. From the way he is acting it seems obvious to me that he doesn't care about her -- independent of him being a private person.
I take that to mean that you are not married, stuh. Have you ever been married in the past? What life experience qualifies you to "recognize behavioral patterns" between newlyweds? In the absence of personal experience, do you have professional training as a marriage counselor or therapist? Your advice has the unmistakable air of authority, yet I find it surprisingly naive and uninformed coming from someone of your obvious intelligence.
Let's return to the subject.
It is entirely possible that jazzie's husband "clams up" because he feels hounded. In his mind, it may be safer to be uncommunicative than to risk a confrontation by expressing anger or frustration. If she is always on his case to open up, it will just drive him further and further into his shell. People only open up in an atmosphere of trust, and that may well have been seriously damaged by the violations of privacy (on both sides) among other things.
What concerns me more is jazzie's statement that she "...snooped through his stuff...I found nasty surprises...he lied to me." First of all, she shouldn't have snooped. That's no way to build trust. She effectively gave him permission to do the same, and look where that led. More importantly: Are the lies about major things that directly affect this marriage? Or are they about minor matters in his past? If you want a relationship to last, jazzie, don't make a major issue out of minor stuff.
Marriage counseling certainly seems warranted. If jazzie's husband won't go with her, I encourage her to seek counseling alone. It may give her insights about the relationship and a better perspective on how to go forward from here.
jazzieB123 wrote:
Before reading my notes, he told me I was the best thing that had ever happened to him in his life.
Now?
He is the most distant man I've ever been with and I don't know what to do about it.
Regardless of whatever else may have happened, to me this is the most significant clue to his behavior. I think he was crushed, hurt, angry, and confused by what he found. It's possible that he's shut himself off emotionally as a defensive move--to keep from being hurt further.
I searched back, but couldn't find what was in "the notes". What was it?
jazzieB123 wrote:
I spent months reacting and railing internally against that. So then he snooped thru my stuff to see what was up. To see why I was so upset and angry every day. Only what he found was my therapy notes which were meant to be seen only by my counsellor. I poured my heart out into those notes. They were irrational, rambling, ranting, spewing words - angry, resentful, horrible words. My counsellor told me to get the bad words out so that we could get to the root of the problem.
I did that. He found them. He believed everything he read to be true - but they were knee-jerk words. Hateful words thrown onto paper so I could get them out of my body and free my mind up to work on therapy and depression (which was a new thing for me).
Clearly the were problems of trust before he found the notes, but jazzie said that he changed dramatically after he read the notes.
JazzieB, I'm puzzled by the title of your thread.
You say that you're already strangers. It seems more like you are still strangers, as you didn't know each other particularly well before you married.
How long did you know each other before you married? did you participate in any pre-marital counselling? did you live together before marriage?
It seems to me that Stuh hit the nail on the head with his "before you get married" comment. The level of knowledge/privacy/communication before marriage is what it will be after.
I don't believe that it's fair to expect the nature of the relationship to change in any significant way because of the marriage. You're both still the same people you were before the marriage.
~~~
Pre-marital counselling can often help with identifying the expectations we're bringing along with us. Counselling afterward may also help, but it often seems to me that by the time you're married and in trouble, you've both got investments in proving that your expectations were reasonable.
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