IF THE SHRUB PARDONS LIBBY . . .

Must be off his medication again.

Well, alot of you guys feel so sorry for terrorist suspects and want them turned loose, so I thought surely you would be in favor of the family man, Libby, being excused from suffering likely torture in a prison somewhere?

First, your claim about what "alot of guys [sic]" think is an unfounded assertion, and as your intent is to suggest that i think the same, it also constitutes a strawman.

Additionally, if Libby were to be incarcerated in a Federal prison, there is no good reason to assume that he would be tortured.

If you want to puke up your hatred for your imaginary "librul" enemies, carry it somewhere else where it might be on topic--maybe the Freepers have a special forum for people who failed to complete grammar school but still should have the chance to exercise their right to shout stupid things.

Commuting the sentence was the right thing to do. Libby was convicted and by not pardoning him, he still has the conviction on his record and yet he gets to stay home. Good for him.

I'm feeling with you. However, for some reason, when the KGB did exactly the same thing to its prisoners, we didn't have a problem calling it torture, did we?

Setanta, you need a sense of humor. It would help you tremendously. I suggest you try it tomorrow. I must admit though that for humor to work, it must start with a basis of truth, then expand on it for the humor.

And he still has the chance to clear his name through future court action.

Okie, where and when were you in the Army?

Libby was duly convicted in a court of law, with access to the best lawyers and all the human rights guaranteed to the rich and unfluential.


I guess that means he was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.



A tad different from people deliberately sequestered from all rule of law and, tortured, and considered guilty no matter what.


But I guess you wouldn't understand that sort of thing.



shrugs

I don't know much about the case, but commuting Libby's sentence strikes me as horribly wrong and inappropriate, since Libby was associated with the administration. Far better for a president to do this for a stranger than for someone he knows personally. The man was convicted of a crime and doesn't deserve any special breaks because he was on the inside of the administration.

You wouldn't know humor if it bit you in the ass. And yes, humor works best with a grain of reality. That's why your "alot of you guys" horseshit doesn't qualify--and that's why suggesting that you book into a rubber room at Free Republic does qualify.

Though I tend to agree with you Brandon, I do think the length of the prison sentence was a bit long. As far as Bush commuting the sentence, other presidents have done the same or more for people they have ties to or are beholden to, so nothing new.

A PARTIAL list of a prior administrations pardons.


NAME DISTRICT SENTENCED OFFENSE
David Phillip Aronsohn D. Minn. 1961 Failure to pay special occupational tax on wagering, 26 U.S.C. § 7203
Wanda Kaye Bain-Prentice D. Ariz. 1982 Mail fraud, 18 U.S.C. § 1341
Antonio Barucco U. S. Army general court-martial 1945 Desertion in violation of the 58th Article of War
Kristine Margo Beck D. Idaho 1981 Bank embezzlement, 18 U.S.C. § 656
David Christopher Billmaier D. New Mex. 1980 Possession with intent to distribute amphetamines, 21 U.S.C. § 841(a)(1)
Terry Lee Brown E. D. Ky. 1962 Interstate transportation of a stolen motor vehicle, 18 U.S.C. § 2312
Joe Carl Bruton N. D. Tex. 1979 Conspiracy to commit mail fraud, 18 U.S.C. § 371
Nolan Lynn DeMarce W. D. Wis. 1983 Making false statements to obtain bank loans, 18 U.S.C. § 1014
Jimmy C. Dick N. D. Calif. 1976 Conspiracy to manufacture counterfeit Federal Reserve Notes, 18 U.S.C. § 371
Edward Eugene Dishman W. D. Okla. 1983 Conspiracy to defraud the United States and Oklahoma counties, 18 U.S.C. § 371
Brenda Kay Engle S. D. Ind. 1983 Conspiracy to commit theft from interstate shipment, 18 U.S.C. § 371
Mary Theresa Fajer D. Oregon 1980 Conspiracy to commit bank embezzlement, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2 and 371
Albert James Forte D. Dist. Col. 1973 Making and subscribing false and fraudulent income tax return, 26 U.S.C. § 7206(1)
Fendley Lee Frazier S. D. Ala. 1965 Interstate transportation of a stolen motor vehicle, 18 U.S.C. § 2312
Robert Linward Freeland, Jr. N. D. Ind. 1983 Forcible rescue of seized property, 26 U.S.C. § 7212(b)
Ralph Leon Furst S. D. Calif. 1966 Embezzlement of United States mail (U.S. Code section not cited)
Barbara Ann Gericke W. D. Wis. 1984 Conspiracy to introduce contraband into federal prison, 18 U.S.C. §§ 371 and 1791
Billy Joe Gilmore N. D. Tex. 1982 Mail fraud and aiding and abetting, 18 U.S.C. §§ 1341 and 2
Loreto Joseph Iafrate N. D. W. Va. 1976 Failure to record receipt of firearms, 18 U.S.C. §§ 922(m) and 924(a)
Carl Bruce Jones W. D. Mo. 1983 Distribution of marijuana and use of telephone to facilitate marijuana distribution, 18 U.S.C. § 2 and 21 U.S.C. §§ 841(a)(1) and 843(b)
Candace Deon Leverenz N. D. Calif. 1972 Unlawful distribution of LSD, 21 U.S.C. §§ 841(a)(1) and (b)(1)(B)
George William Lindgren S. D. N. Y. 1975 Bank embezzlement, 18 U.S.C. § 656
Brian George Meierkord C. D. Ill. 1983 Making false statement to bank, 18 U.S.C. § 1014
Jackie Lee Miller N. D. Okla. 1983 Conspiracy to defraud the United States, 18 U.S.C. § 371
Joseph Patrick Naulty E. D. Pa. 1980 Carrying away goods moving as part of foreign shipment, 18 U.S.C. § 659
Theodore Roosevelt Noel N. D. Ala. 1972 Selling whiskey in unstamped containers and making false statement in the acquisition of firearms from licensed dealer, 26 U.S.C. § 5604(a)(1) and 18 U.S.C. §§ 922(a)(6) and 924(a)
Mary Louise Oaks M. D. La. 1979 Conspiracy to defraud the government with respect to claims, 18 U.S.C. § 286
Robert Paul Padelsky D. Utah 1980 Misapplication of bank funds, 18 U.S.C. § 656
Elizabeth Amy Peterson D. Nev. 1985 Conspiracy to make false statements to bank, 18 U.S.C. § 371
Susan Lauranne Prather W. D. Ark. 1975 Causing marijuana to be transported through the mail, 21 U.S.C. § 843(b)
Gary Lynn Quammen W. D. Wis. 1976 Misapplication of bank funds, 18 U.S.C. § 656
Robert Ronal Raymond D. Conn. 1972 Conspiracy to manufacture, receive, possess, and sell firearms silencers, 18 U.S.C. § 371
Elizabeth Hogg Rushing N. D. Ga. 1978 Misapplication of bank funds, 18 U.S.C. § 656
Marc Alan Schaffer S. D. N. Y. 1968 Submission of false statements to Selective Service System Local Board, 50 U.S.C. Appendix § 462(a)
Roy Aaron Smith E. D. Tex. 1982 Misprision of a felony, 18 U.S.C. § 4
Diane Dorothea Smunk D. So. Dak. 1984 Embezzlement by government employee, 18 U.S.C. § 641
Thomas Peter Stathakis D. So. Car. 1976 Selling and delivering firearms to out-of-state resident and falsifying firearms records, 18 U.S.C. §§ 922(b)(3), 922(m), and 924(a)
Kathleen Vacanti C. D. Calif. 1979 Conspiracy to defraud the United States by obtaining payment of false claims, presenting false claims to the United States, forging a writing, and aiding and abetting, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2, 286, 287, and 495
Pupi White W. D. Mo. 1985 Making false statement on United States passport application, 18 U.S.C. § 911
Charles Coleman Wicker E. D. Mo. 1975 Conspiracy to conduct illegal gambling business, 18 U.S.C. § 371
Roderick Douglas Woods S. D. Miss. 1982 Misappropriation of bank funds and aiding and abetting, 18 U.S.C. §§ 656 and 2

April 17, 1995
NAME DISTRICT SENTENCED OFFENSE
Bradley Vaughn Barisic N. D. Calif. 1980 Making false statement to National Labor Relations Board, 18 U.S.C. § 1001
Herschel L. Brantley U. S. Air Force general court-martial 1951 Larceny in violation of 93rd Article of War
Linda Bailey Byars D. So. Car. 1975 Bank embezzlement, 18 U.S.C. § 656
Patricia Ann Chapin W. D. Mo. 1986 Falsifying prescription for controlled substance, 21 U.S.C. § 843(a)(4)(A) and 18 U.S.C. § 2
Ronald Jacobs E. D. Pa. 1967 Theft from interstate shipment, 18 U.S.C. § 659
Margaret Mary Marks N. D. Ohio 1984 Willful misapplication of bank funds, 18 U.S.C. § 657
John Richard Martin S. D. Calif. 1956 Embezzlement of funds from savings and loan association, 18 U.S.C. § 657
Earl Thomas McKinney 1. U. S. Air Force summary court-martial 1. 1951 1. Absent without leave

2. U. S. Air Force general court-martial 2. 1959 2. Larceny by check, writing check with insufficient funds, and false claims, in violation of U.C.M.J. Articles 121, 132, and 134

Shirley Jean Odoms S. D. Tex. 1978 Filing false claim for tax refund, 18 U.S.C. § 287
Jack Pakis W. D. Ark. 1972 Operation of illegal gambling business, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2 and 1955
Gordon Roberts, Jr. M. D. La. 1977 Interstate transportation of forged and falsely made securities, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2 and 2314
Carl Edward Terhune, Jr. N. D. Okla. 1985 Issuing United States Postal Service money orders while postal employee with intent to defraud Postal Service, 18 U.S.C. § 500

December 23, 1997
NAME DISTRICT SENTENCED OFFENSE
Irving Frank Avery D. Colo. 1984 Possession of counterfeit plates, 18 U.S.C. §§ 474 and 2
Billy K. Berry E. D. Ark. 1986 Medicaid and mail fraud, 42 U.S.C. § 1396h(a)(1)(i) and 18 U.S.C. § 1341
Clio Louise Carson D. Wyo. 1979 Transmission of wagering information, 18 U.S.C. § 1084
Giuseppe Casadei-Severei D. Puerto Rico 1987 Obstruction of justice, 18 U.S.C. § 1503
Glen Edison Chapman 1. W. D. No.Car.
1. 1955
1. Removing, possessing, and concealing non-tax-paid whiskey, 26 U.S.C. §§ 5632 and 7206

2. W. D. No. Car. 2. 1957 2. Removing, possessing, and concealing non-tax-paid whiskey, 26 U.S.C. §§ 5632 and 5008(b)(1)

Ralph Wallace Crawford C. D. Calif. 1985 Mail fraud, 18 U.S.C. § 1341
Aaron Golden W. D. Tex. 1986 Failure to file a currency transaction report, 31 U.S.C. §§ 5313 and 5322(a)
Monroe Lee King S. D. Tex. 1973 Making plates for counterfeiting Federal Reserve Notes, 18 U.S.C. § 474
Ralph Lee Limbaugh N. D. Ala. 1974 Theft from interstate shipment, 18 U.S.C. § 659
George Edward Maynes, Jr. D. Canal Zone 1975 Distribution of cocaine, 21 U.S.C. § 841(a)(1)
Charley Morgan N.D. Okla. 1964 Unlawful possession of still and manufacture of mash, 26 U.S.C. §§ 5179(a), 5601(a)(1), and 5601(a)(7)
Linzie Murle Morse W. D. La. 1973 Interstate transportation of stolen motor vehicle and selling stolen motor vehicle, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2312 and 2313
Charles Patrick Murrin C. D. Calif. 1988 Bank robbery, 18 U.S.C. § 2113(a)
Moises Jaurequi Ramos D. New Mexico 1983 Misprision of a felony, 18 U.S.C. § 4
William Ray Richardson W. D. Mo. 1983 Interstate transportation of stolen property, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2 and 2314
Raymond Phillip Weaver U. S. Navy summary court-martial 1947 Theft of four pounds of butter
Bill Wayne West E. D. Miss. 1984 Dealing in firearms without license, 18 U.S.C. §§ 922(a)(1) and 924(a)
Anita Glenn Whitlock D. Dist. Col. 1978 Bank embezzlement, 18 U.S.C. § 656
Edward Kenneth Williams, Jr. S. D. Iowa 1979 Receiving and selling stolen motor vehicles and aiding and abetting the same, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2 and 2313
Larry Edward Winfield W. D. Ark. 1987 Mail fraud, 18 U.S.C. § 1341
Louis Anthony Winters 1. U.S. Navy general
court-martial 1. 1957
1. Unauthorized absence from duty

2.D. So. Dak. 2. 1969 2. Assault with dangerous weapon, 18 U.S.C. § 1153


http://www.usdoj.gov/pardon/clintonpardon_grants.htm

By the way, to get back to the topic of the thread (silly me)--the Shrub appears not to have suffered (so far) for having commuted Libby's sentence, and i seriously doubt that a criminal record is going to hinder this man's future, what with all of Dick's business cronies.

I would say that it was clever to commute the sentence rather than to pardon Libby, because it gives a shallow deniability--the Shrub did not actually pardon him. And shallow stories have never dismayed the Shrub's core supporters.

I mean, he didn't pardon Paris Hilton.

That should be noted.

Are we putting together a character reference for the Shrub?

Then let him serve the right length sentence, and then commute his sentence.


There were more choices than just "all" or "none."

I guess you didn't mention being sodomized as I presume that you didn't consider that torture.

Since it should be obvious that the sentence was commuted to prevent Libby from turning on Cheney and Bush, this act constitutes Obstruction of Justice.