kuvasz wrote:Oh poor little Billikums, I warned you about thinking before posting, but you come right back like a Punch and Judy puppet for more pummeling.
Do you have any idea how idiotic you look when you write this sh!t?
Really? Then you know nothing vis-a-vis Punch and Judy, and I'm casting my pearls to swine.
btw, I'm Punch, on the left, Bill. You're wearing the dress.
You are a legend only in your own mind (what's left of it). It's only that this site is dominated by like-minded lefties that your senile ass wasn't laughed off long ago. I can hardly wait for your next flash of brilliance about pants pooping, anal rape or whatever else you recall from the days of being picked on at the schoolyard.
So sorry bub, first, like minded lefties still laugh at my senile ass (generally for engaging you idiots on the Right), so consider how they laugh at yours. But seriously, I was a big, tall, and athletic jock who stopped other jocks from picking on girls and dwebs like you in the school yard. You know how liberals are.
kuvasz wrote:Oh and about your time machine, can you tell the rest of the class how else you could proclaimQuote:that Bill Clinton, Nancy Pelosi etc's 1998 statements were really the product of Bush's war desires several years later..
Because being a "product" of something that happens later is impossible.
You're even thicker than I thought. Any damn fool could tell you that is in parody of your idiotic blaming of Bush for what was played on the video clip from 1998.
Are you really that stupid? Or do you think you're fooling some one by pretending that began as my error?
First, I did not "blame" Bush for what was played on the video. You just made that up.
and finally, an admission of error on your part. Well, its a start. Lets see, is 1998 actually the same as October of 2002? Nope, sorry Bill, you don't get to create your own reality, unless you are living in a NULL-A world, where anything can equal something else because you want it to.
Your desire to pretend anyone argued against your vote data is denied.
Nor should they.
No one did.
Ops, only you did by attempting to use Clinton's and Pelosi's remarks as indicative of, get this, the actual title of the thread..."Democrats BEFORE the invasion of Iraq."
However, just because your delusional mind got stuck on that, and that alone, doesn't make any intelligent person believe that video taped pronouncements cease to exist or be relevantÂ… especially when they are the catalyst for the thread you're responding to. (I sure hope you are retired )
So, your idea of delusional is rejecting a thesis which uses only arbitrary, non-inclusive, cherry-picking of data to support itself? This again leads one to consider the evidence, are Clinton's and Pelosi's remarks representative to the stance taken by the majority of congressional Democrats who voted on the ATUF? No, they are not. Which was my antithetical statement (based upon the numbers of the recorded ATUF votes) to the implicit thesis binding the thread title to the linked footage.
The funniest part is; you seem to think you're doing a superior job, while you make a total fool of yourself... as usual.
Bill, you don't have to tell me what you yourself have done in your last several posts. Unlike you, I actually know how to read, think, and do arithmetic.
and seem to know a bit more about Punch and Judy too.
What are you two smoking? Cyclops; you quoted me saying attempts at blameshifting are idiotic; why blast that rancor my way? Of course decision makers and people who voted for the bill bear more responsibility for it; who said otherwise? I really am getting this **** from both sides.
And Dookie; what the hell are you talking about? I can't stop posting ad nauseum everything that a Dem said way back when... because I've yet to do so even once.
That being said; Reverend HellH0und did fortify the video's point that Bush was not alone in believing Iraq a threat. Nothing wrong with that. Anyone truly interested in picking good leaders in the future, should certainly want to know who said what when. Again; way too many of these people from both parties are trying to distance themselves, from their own words, and they all need to be re-categorized as liars when they lie.
What are you two smoking? Cyclops; you quoted me saying attempts at blameshifting are idiotic; why blast that rancor my way? Of course decision makers and people who voted for the bill bear more responsibility for it; who said otherwise? I really am getting this **** from both sides.
And Dookie; what the hell are you talking about? I can't stop posting ad nauseum everything that a Dem said way back when... because I've yet to do so even once.
That being said; Reverend HellH0und did fortify the video's point that Bush was not alone in believing Iraq a threat. Nothing wrong with that. Anyone truly interested in picking good leaders in the future, should certainly want to know who said what when. Again; way too many of these people from both parties are trying to distance themselves, from their own words, and they all need to be re-categorized as liars when they lie.
You can understand that after hearing these intellectually unsound arguments over and over from Republicans, people tend to jump the gun a bit when they hear it from someone who claims not to be. It's the reverse of what you are experiencing in the immigration thread from the other side.
OCCOM BILL wrote:kuvasz wrote:Oh poor little Billikums, I warned you about thinking before posting, but you come right back like a Punch and Judy puppet for more pummeling.
Do you have any idea how idiotic you look when you write this sh!t?
Really? Then you know nothing vis-a-vis Punch and Judy, and I'm casting my pearls to swine.
btw, I'm Punch, on the left, Bill. You're wearing the dress.
You are a legend only in your own mind (what's left of it). It's only that this site is dominated by like-minded lefties that your senile ass wasn't laughed off long ago. I can hardly wait for your next flash of brilliance about pants pooping, anal rape or whatever else you recall from the days of being picked on at the schoolyard.
So sorry bub, first, like minded lefties still laugh at my senile ass (generally for engaging you idiots on the Right), so consider how they laugh at yours. But seriously, I was a big, tall, and athletic jock who stopped other jocks from picking on girls and dwebs like you in the school yard. You know how liberals are.
kuvasz wrote:Oh and about your time machine, can you tell the rest of the class how else you could proclaimQuote:that Bill Clinton, Nancy Pelosi etc's 1998 statements were really the product of Bush's war desires several years later..
Because being a "product" of something that happens later is impossible.
You're even thicker than I thought. Any damn fool could tell you that is in parody of your idiotic blaming of Bush for what was played on the video clip from 1998.
Are you really that stupid? Or do you think you're fooling some one by pretending that began as my error?
First, I did not "blame" Bush for what was played on the video. You just made that up.
and finally, an admission of error on your part. Well, its a start. Lets see, is 1998 actually the same as October of 2002? Nope, sorry Bill, you don't get to create your own reality, unless you are living in a NULL-A world, where anything can equal something else because you want it to.
Your desire to pretend anyone argued against your vote data is denied.
Nor should they.
No one did.
Ops, only you did by attempting to use Clinton's and Pelosi's remarks as indicative of, get this, the actual title of the thread..."Democrats BEFORE the invasion of Iraq."
However, just because your delusional mind got stuck on that, and that alone, doesn't make any intelligent person believe that video taped pronouncements cease to exist or be relevantÂ… especially when they are the catalyst for the thread you're responding to. (I sure hope you are retired )
So, your idea of delusional is rejecting a thesis which uses only arbitrary, non-inclusive, cherry-picking of data to support itself? This again leads one to consider the evidence, are Clinton's and Pelosi's remarks representative to the stance taken by the majority of congressional Democrats who voted on the ATUF? No, they are not. Which was my antithetical statement (based upon the numbers of the recorded ATUF votes) to the implicit thesis binding the thread title to the linked footage.
The funniest part is; you seem to think you're doing a superior job, while you make a total fool of yourself... as usual.
Bill, you don't have to tell me what you yourself have done in your last several posts. Unlike you, I actually know how to read, think, and do arithmetic.
and seem to know a bit more about Punch and Judy too.
You didn't read the last line of my post.
Quote:
You can understand that after hearing these intellectually unsound arguments over and over from Republicans, people tend to jump the gun a bit when they hear it from someone who claims not to be. It's the reverse of what you are experiencing in the immigration thread from the other side.
They are intellectually unsound arguments. The Dems carry some blame for the start of the Iraq war, but only about half of them voted for it and it was Republicans driving the whoooole time.
I don't care who is making the point which is incorrect, it's still incorrect. I can talk all day about what a threat a certain person is, but if you decide to take action against that person, I'm not responsible.
Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn wrote:I saw your last line... but by now you at least should know better. I repeat; there can be no doubt that Bush&Co were the driving force behind the war, and anyone who says otherwise is an idiot. That doesn't mean he alone believed Saddam a threat. (My fingers are getting DeJavue here... I think we understand each other just fine...
You didn't read the last line of my post.
Quote:
You can understand that after hearing these intellectually unsound arguments over and over from Republicans, people tend to jump the gun a bit when they hear it from someone who claims not to be. It's the reverse of what you are experiencing in the immigration thread from the other side.
They are intellectually unsound arguments. The Dems carry some blame for the start of the Iraq war, but only about half of them voted for it and it was Republicans driving the whoooole time.
I don't care who is making the point which is incorrect, it's still incorrect. I can talk all day about what a threat a certain person is, but if you decide to take action against that person, I'm not responsible.
Cycloptichorn
Later
That also doesn't mean that those who believed it yet were not privy to all the intel were lying, either.
You really have no clue. IF anyone is trying to blame shift; they are an idiot. However; that doesn't mean Bush was alone in thinking Iraq was a threat, as illustrated by Cjhsa's video and that new fella's extensive list of quotes.
Its not our fault, Dookie, Cyclo, and I recognize clearly and protest the manipulation and poisoning of language and history for venial reasons.
Its your fault that you don't.
Quote:
Its not our fault, Dookie, Cyclo, and I recognize clearly and protest the manipulation and poisoning of language and history for venial reasons.
Its your fault that you don't.
I have always tried to remind myself that the people who bought into the bullsh*t must be deeply, deeply ashamed of their errors, and have a real tough time admitting just how wrong they were. It is damaging to their psyche to do so.
What was the objective difference between those who believed the hype, and those who did not? It doesn't seem to be intelligence, as many very intelligent people were deceived. No, I think it was emotional. They got caught up in the emotional arguments of the time and the hype the 9/11 was a deadly attack on our nation. Now they desperately try to defend their mistakes by pointing out that others are equally guilty.
It's the ultimate 'Clinton did it too!' argument. The last defense of a failed position.
Cycloptichorn
Dookiestix wrote:The risk of having a senile idiot not get it AGAIN, is too great, so this time I'll answer directly: Bush's lies had no effect on Clinton or Pelosi's beliefs in 1998. Look at the dates on the list the new fella presented; and abandon that line of reasoning... because it simply doesn't explain all of the agreement about Iraq. Further; NO ONE, INCLUDING BUSH could be terribly well informed, since Bush's predecessor allowed Saddam to go unchecked for years, contrary to his obligations. Enough. I'm not doing this again.That also doesn't mean that those who believed it yet were not privy to all the intel were lying, either.
Good day.
I have always tried to remind myself that the people who bought into the bullsh*t must be deeply, deeply ashamed of their errors, and have a real tough time admitting just how wrong they were. It is damaging to their psyche to do so.
Cycloptichorn wrote:Not true. Clinton actually failed to take care of it in any meaningful way. In as much as things are obviously going horribly; they obviously would have then too. But that doesn't excuse the blind eye he turned in allowing Saddam to operate unchecked. As any chance of a net good in Iraq continues to lessen with the passing days; I do not believe even failure to bring about turn towards self determination in the ME will prove the attempt not warranted. There's been nothing knew to for us to go over, and I know both of your positions as well as you know mine, so I see no point in repeating the exercise now. Be patient. Iran/USA relations may soon bring us something new to argue about. :wink:Quote:
Its not our fault, Dookie, Cyclo, and I recognize clearly and protest the manipulation and poisoning of language and history for venial reasons.
Its your fault that you don't.
I have always tried to remind myself that the people who bought into the bullsh*t must be deeply, deeply ashamed of their errors, and have a real tough time admitting just how wrong they were. It is damaging to their psyche to do so.
What was the objective difference between those who believed the hype, and those who did not? It doesn't seem to be intelligence, as many very intelligent people were deceived. No, I think it was emotional. They got caught up in the emotional arguments of the time and the hype the 9/11 was a deadly attack on our nation. Now they desperately try to defend their mistakes by pointing out that others are equally guilty.
It's the ultimate 'Clinton did it too!' argument. The last defense of a failed position.
Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn wrote:Not true. Clinton actually failed to take care of it in any meaningful way. In as much as things are obviously going horribly; they obviously would have then too. But that doesn't excuse the blind eye he turned in allowing Saddam to operate unchecked. As any chance of a net good in Iraq continues to lessen with the passing days; I do not believe even failure to bring about turn towards self determination in the ME will prove the attempt not warranted. There's been nothing knew to for us to go over, and I know both of your positions as well as you know mine, so I see no point in repeating the exercise now. Be patient. Iran/USA relations may soon bring us something new to argue about. :wink:Quote:
Its not our fault, Dookie, Cyclo, and I recognize clearly and protest the manipulation and poisoning of language and history for venial reasons.
Its your fault that you don't.
I have always tried to remind myself that the people who bought into the bullsh*t must be deeply, deeply ashamed of their errors, and have a real tough time admitting just how wrong they were. It is damaging to their psyche to do so.
What was the objective difference between those who believed the hype, and those who did not? It doesn't seem to be intelligence, as many very intelligent people were deceived. No, I think it was emotional. They got caught up in the emotional arguments of the time and the hype the 9/11 was a deadly attack on our nation. Now they desperately try to defend their mistakes by pointing out that others are equally guilty.
It's the ultimate 'Clinton did it too!' argument. The last defense of a failed position.
Cycloptichorn
There wasn't anything to take care of. But you're right, we shouldn't argue about that.
I think that if we keep pushing for a war with Iran by using covert ops to try and destabilize and/or provoke them into one, then yes, we will see war. But it isn't fair to say that they are acting as an aggressor at this time.
Cycloptichorn
It is true that Bill Clinton, for instance, suspected that the Iraqis had WMDs in 1998. It is equally true, however, that he didn't launch a pre-emptive invasion of Iraq in 1998 based upon that suspicion.
joefromchicago wrote:A decision that's been hotly debated ever since.It is true that Bill Clinton, for instance, suspected that the Iraqis had WMDs in 1998. It is equally true, however, that he didn't launch a pre-emptive invasion of Iraq in 1998 based upon that suspicion.
It is also true that no one could have a high degree of certainty, one way or another, in part because Bill Clinton essentially allowed Iraq to go unchecked for years, contrary to his obligations. From a legal standpoint; how does one's repudiation, public or otherwise, absolve him of complicity, in any way?
Here we see evidence that senility and idiocy have nothing in common... and a stark reminder of why I long ago chose to ignore a certain someone, long before he crawled back out from under his rock.