Jerry Falwell dead

I thought of that, Phoenix, after I wrote it. A fine line, I grant you. But there could have been other ways for him shut up without actually dying. There is something in me that's preventing me from saying that I'm glad he's dead. Don't know what it is or why it's there, but it's how I feel.

I'm going to have to ponder further.

Roberta-

I found the reactions of people very interesting, and started this thread:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=96376

Personally, I'm interested in what skeletons will fall out of the closet now.

Often ofter someone dies lots of secrets come out.

However, I'm only interested mildly. It's not like it matters.

I agree with Pheonix.

Jerry Falwell was a hate monger who would have destroyed our governemt as we know it.

"AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals. To oppose it would be like an Israelite jumping in the Red Sea to save one of Pharaoh's charioteers."
--Jerry Falwell

I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, America Can Be Saved, 1979 pp. 52-53, from Albert J Menendez and Edd Doerr, The Great Quotations on Religious Freedom

"Someone must not be afriad to say, 'moral perversion is wrong.' If we do not act now, homosexuals will 'own' America!...If you and I do not speak up now, this homosexual steamroller will literally crush all decent men, women, and children who get in its way...and our nation will pay a terrible price!" - People for the American Way, "Hostile Climate," 1997, p.15.

"Modern U.S. Supreme Courts have raped the Constitution and raped the Christian faith and raped the churches by misinterpreting what the founders had in mind in the First Amendment of the Constitution... (W)e must fight against those radical minorities who are trying to remove God from our textbooks, Christ from our nation. We must never allow our children to forget that this is a Christian nation. We must take back what is rightfully ours."
March 1993 sermon

"The idea that religion and politics don't mix was invented by the Devil to keep Christians from running their own country."
- Rev. Jerry Falwell, Sermon, July 4, 1976

"I think Mohammed was a terrorist. I read enough of the history of his life. He was a violent man, a man of war. Jesus set the example for love, as did Moses. And I think Mohammed set an opposite example."
- Rev. Jerry Falwell

Nothing has changed because he died. He was a scumbag on Monday, the day before he died, a scumbag on Tuesday, the day he died, and a scumbag today, the day after he died.

We must remind ourselves today as we did yesterday that Jerry Falwell was not a good American but a minister who spread a message of hate, fear and intolerance.

He was a good Republican.

BTW, here's a quiz for you.
http://www.funnystrange.com/quiz/

Falwel was a puppet.

Extremists like Jerry allow for politicians to talk out of both sides of their mouth. He could say whatever he wants, the more extreme the better, and he can express views that many politicians have, but then the politicians can comment on how they agree about it but selectively. Ultimately they want these kind of things to be said, but they don't want the baggage of having to say them.

When Jerry died, the "moral majority" tool was crippled.

Give ti some time, someone will rise to fill his shoes. A$$holes are lining up I'm sure.

Probably about as much as I seek yours.

Who was Jerry Falwell & what were his beliefs?
Jerry Falwell was an ignorant man who learned how to organize and mislead other uninformed people. He reacted to the excesses of the young during the '60s and 70s and racial integration and began his crusade to restore his mother's world and to bury his father's. Won't he be surprised to discover that there is no heaven nor hell? Just one life opportunity. His death speaks for itself in memory of his acts.---BBB

Jerry Falwell was born Aug. 11, 1933, in Lynchburg, Va., to an intensely religious mother and an alcoholic father who said he was an atheist. His father was a bootlegger during Prohibition, and in one scrap fatally shot his own brother in self-defense.

The term "moral majority" was building on Richard Nixon's silent majority, in reaction to the '60s counterculture, including the loosening of laws and moral standards against abortion and homosexuality. "We don't believe in Roe v. Wade; we don't believe in all aspects of equal rights for homosexuals; we believe ... family values are being neglected."

Falwell grew up in a strongly segregationist setting and supported racial segregation for the first few years of his career. In 1965, he gave a sermon at his Thomas Road Baptist Church criticizing Martin Luther King and the Civil Rights Movement, which he sometimes referred to as the "Civil Wrongs Movement". On his Evangelist program The Old-Time Gospel Hour in the mid 1960s, he regularly featured segregationist politicians like Lester Maddox and George Wallace. He often spoke out in favor of the racist position in those days. For example, in 1958, he said:

"If Chief Justice Warren and his associates had known God's word and had desired to do the Lord's will, I am quite confident that the 1954 decision [Brown v. Board of Education] would never have been made…. The facilities should be separate. When God has drawn a line of distinction, we should not attempt to cross that line."

Falwell's views eventually shifted and he opposed segregation in his later years.

Apocalyptic beliefs

On July 31, 2006, Cable News Network's (CNN) Paula Zahn Now program featured a segment on "whether the crisis in the Middle East is actually a prelude to the end of the world," "marking the third time in eight days that CNN ha[d] devoted airtime to those claiming that the ongoing Mideast violence signal[ed] the coming of the Apocalypse." Falwell was interviewed claiming, "I believe in the premillennial, pre-tribulational coming of Christ for all of his church, and to summarize that, your first poll, do you believe Jesus coming the second time will be in the future, I would vote yes with the 59 percent and with Billy Graham and most evangelicals."

Falwell asserted that when the Antichrist comes, he "must be, of necessity, a Jewish male".

Reverend Kevin Bean of St. Bartholomew's Church in New York City disagreed. Bean explained, "I think that any correlation that is made with present war making or other political schemes with the events that could lead to a final day and the second coming of Jesus and the separation of the faithful from the rest is an arrogant identification with these present-day events."

The Anti-Defamation League, and its leader Abraham Foxman, have expressed strong support for Falwell's staunch pro-Israel stand, sometimes referred to as "Christian Zionism," despite repeatedly condemning what they perceive as intolerance in Falwell's public statements.

Falwell repeatedly denounced certain teachings in public schools and secular education in general, calling them breeding grounds for atheism, secularism, and humanism, which he claimed to be in contradiction with Christian morality. He advocated that the United States change its public education system by implementing a school voucher system which would allow parents to send their children to either public or private schools. Jerry Falwell wrote in America Can Be Saved that "I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them."

Falwell supported President George W. Bush's Faith Based Initiative, but had strong reservations concerning where the funding would go and the restrictions placed on churches. "My problem is where it might go under his successors... I would not want to put any of the Jerry Falwell Ministries in a position where we might be subservient to a future Bill Clinton, God forbid... It also concerns me that once the pork barrel is filled, suddenly the Church of Scientology, the Jehovah Witnesses [sic], the various and many denominations and religious groups ?- and I don't say those words in a pejorative way ?- begin applying for money ?- and I don't see how any can be turned down because of their radical and unpopular views. I don't know where that would take us."

Falwell was strongly opposed to homosexual rights, supporting Anita Bryant's 1977 movement to overturn a human-rights ordinance in Dade County, Florida that prohibited discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and a similar movement in California.

Falwell and apartheid

In the 1980s Jerry Falwell was critical of sanctions against the Apartheid regime of South Africa. He stated that while he was opposed to Apartheid, he feared that sanctions would result in a worse situation, with either a more oppressive white minority government or a Soviet-backed revolution. He drew the ire of many when he called Nobel Peace Prize winner and Anglican Archbishop Desmond Tutu a phony "as far as representing the black people of South Africa." He later apologized for that remark and claimed that he had misspoken.

Controversial remarks

Jerry FalwellFalwell was a controversial figure for his theological, political and social beliefs. After the September 11, 2001 attacks, Falwell said on the 700 Club, "I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.'" Fellow evangelist Pat Robertson concurred with his sentiment. After heavy criticism, Falwell apologized. As for homosexuality, Falwell remarked, "AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals." Falwell's ghostwriter, Mel White, said Falwell remarked about gay protesters, "Thank God for these gay demonstrators. If I didn't have them, I'd have to invent them. They give me all the publicity I need."

During the Civil Rights Movement, Falwell was a supporter of racial segregation. He said this about Martin Luther King: "I do question the sincerity and non-violent intentions of some civil rights leaders such as Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Mr. James Farmer, and others, who are known to have left wing associations."

Falwell has also said, "Labor unions should study and read the Bible instead of asking for more money. When people get right with God, they are better workers."

In February 1999, an article in Falwell's National Liberty Journal suggested that a Teletubbies character, Tinky Winky, could be a hidden homosexual symbol, because the character was purple (which the article claimed was a color symbolic of homosexuality), had an inverted triangle on his head, and carried a handbag. (The pink triangle was used as a badge to denote homosexuals in Nazi concentration camps, and has since been adopted as an emblem by gay-rights movements.) Falwell denied any personal involvement with the original article, and made clear he never had any prior knowledge of, or concern with, the Teletubbies. Falwell's organization said the author of the article was simply repeating what others in the media were already saying about the nature of the character. In the months following this incident, Falwell received a number of Tinky Winky plush dolls in the mail, most of which he has given to his grandchildren.

God does not take delight in the death of someone wicked. (Ezekiel 33:11) I assume this applies to ones who are merely ignorant. But Wilso is correct about the fact that Jerry is not roasting in hell - not singing with angels, either - just plain old dead.

bingo.

I know its not good form to speak ill of the dead. But then people do, and pretty soon after their demise too. Think of Pol Pot, A Hitler, J Stalin. With J Falwell I would think 48 hours is long enough.

This thread, and Phoenix's thread on speaking ill of the dead are both interesting. I'm genuinely ambivalent--it neither pleases nor dismays me that this man has died. He meant and means nothing to me. I would point out, though, that this was not an "early death," so i don't think that Eorl's remark applies. He had a long life, and plenty of time to push his views on others, and had the intelligence and energy to forward his agenda effectively. I also think that Snood has overstated the case. People here aren't dancing on his grave, because it is doubtful that this site is a place where those who genuinely loved and valued the man are going to read things that distress them. In the final analysis, any glee that anyone expresses here at this death does no injury to the deceased, to anyone who grieves at his death, nor to themselves. I find arguments which have been made about people here with "liberal" points of view being hypocritical because of their reaction to Falwell's death to be unconvincing.

who was he anyway?

He was a Baptist minister who established his own church, and a "university," from which he promoted a conservative political agenda, being one of the founders of the "moral majority." (Those who actually conceived of the "moral majority" encouraged Falwell to found the movement, because he was by then already a successful "televangelist," and therefore had the media presence to forward the agenda.) This group, the Moral Majority, wanted to take control of evangelical Christian conservatives, and from there to take control of government policy. Their targets were abortion and homosexuality, which they intended to end through media censorship and the promotion of "family values." Many Americans, both "liberal" and centrist were fond of pointing out that the "moral majority" were neither moral nor a majority. Falwell became a polarizing figure as a result, and became far more of a national celebrity than he would have been were it not for the "moral majority" movement.

Re: Who was Jerry Falwell & what were his beliefs?


Won't you be surprised to discover there is?

Re: Who was Jerry Falwell & what were his beliefs?
I'd go along with Solomon on this:
"For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun." (Ecclesiastes 9: 5,6)

Thanks. I sort of guessed this. In fact I think I could have guessed all. Apart from the bisexual transvestite bit.

Yeah, i think he was a boyfriend of J. Edgar Hoover when he was a college boy . . .

Thanks Phoenix for starting the other thread. If I ever figure out why I feel uneasy about being happy someone died, I'll chime in.


I mean, if I'm here, which I'm not, since I really left.

I don't feel inclined to celebrate Falwell's passing, because he was just a human being, like the rest of us, and his death is the end of any possibility of growth or change; had he lived, a "religious" experience might have led him to a more humane or responsible theology, and the evil that he did could have been mitigated or even reversed had he the opportunity (and inclination) to use his obvious skills for good instead of evil. That possibility, admittedly a remote one, is now lost; another life wasted in service to superstition.

On the other hand, though I find the glee that some have expressed over his demise uncharitable, I understand (and share) the sentiments, if not the desire to express them. To me it is a matter of rising above, instead of wallowing alongside, the Reverend.

In either case, it surely does not matter now to Falwell.

Jerry Falwell's Immorality

He was, of course, a monster.

What kind of man, let alone what kind of minister of the Gospel, would underwrite a video full of made-up stories about a president of the United States, whose policies he happened to oppose, being a cocaine trafficker and assassin? What kind of man would then recruit the film's producer to pose as an investigative journalist appearing in sillouette, as Falwell himself interviewed him about why he feared for his own life? ("Be assured, we will be praying for your safety.")

What kind of man and minister of the Gospel would report that another president whose policies he happened to oppose said things to him that he never, ever said? ("Falwell responded that his account 'was not intended to be a verbatim report,' but rather an 'honest portrayal' of [President] Carter's position.")

I can respect a man with the integrity not to hide controversial beliefs, like, "God Almighty does not hear the prayer of a Jew." But what kind of man, let alone a minster of the Gospel, would claim to have changed his mind on the most profound questions of theology (reassuring his powerful friends on NBC's "Meet the Press," "God hears the prayers of all persons") simply to save political face?

(As The Washington Post reminds us today, he did the same thing days after famously telling viewers of the Christian talk show "The 700 Club" that the 9/11 attacks were an act of Godly retribution: "I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way?-all of them who have tried to secularize America?-I point the finger in their face and say, 'You helped this happen.'" After first fiercely defending the statement and even sending out a fundraising letter accusing liberals and gays of using the statement as part of a "smear campaign," he told The Post's Peter Carlson, "I misspoke.")

What kind of man calls fellow Christians "brute beasts" following "a vile and Satanic system" that will "one day be utterly annihilated and there will be a celebration in heaven"? And who then, when a tape is produced of him saying it, offers the owner $5,000 to sell it to him?-then reneges on the deal?

And what kind of man, confronted with a book in which he is quoted exulting, "I hope to live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!" claims to have never uttered such words?-even though the book is a collection of his own sermons?

What kind of man? The kind of man conservative leaders everywhere fall over themselves, of course, to praise.

Here is a dispatch from the America Falwell has given us: A bearded Orthodox Jew earlier this month went public with his experience of being harassed by prostelytizing Christian chaplains and staff at an Iowa Veterans Administration hospital: "You mean you don't believe that Jesus is the Messiah?" "Is it just Orthodox Jews who deny Jesus?" "I don't understand; how can you not believe in Jesus; he's the Messiah of the Jews, too, you know."

During one visit, an elderly couple performed "The Old Rugged Cross" in the waiting room. The veteran recalled: "It was driving me nuts, and they were enjoying it."

--Rick Perlstein | Wednesday, May 16, 2007 10:24 AM
http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2007/05/16/jerry_falwells_immorality.php