why would god want us to worship him?

God claims man has free will, but unless you worship him, you'll fry in hell forever. How's that for "free will?"

. . . Well it makes about as much sense as a god that is omnipotent and omniscient creating an angel that he knew he would later have to banish to hell. It begs the question: if he knew this was going to happen why create Lucifer in the first place? Why create an opposing side? Just for giggles?

And better yet why stick us in the middle? If god knows our fallibility and ultimately knows the evil we will do in our life time (part of being that whole omniscient thing) then why create humans he knows he will have to send to hell? Kind of like saying "I know you're going to screw up but I get a kick out watching you try to be good."

Perhaps there really is no hell and we're all here for the experiences we garner during our lifetimes? If you feel a need to worship a deity then go ahead but all that time on your knees isnt going to free up much time experiencing what life has to offer, which I argue is God's greater intent.

Psalm 147:4,5
He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names. Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite.

If he doesnt have the ability to foresee the beginning AND the end (alpha and omega as us catcholics are so dutifully reminded) then his understanding is definetly not infinite.

Psalm 33:13
The Lord looketh from heaven; he beholdeth all the sons of men.

This one take as you will, either you can interpret it as he sees all born sons of men (all people alive at this time) or all sons of men of all time, born, dead and to be born in the future.


Isaiah 46:10
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure.

He takes pleasure in all the sufferings he created? He knew everything before he created everything; the bad and the good. He knew Satan would come from one of his angels. He knew man would have many sufferings including religious wars and the killings, rapes, and torture. He also knew of the sex offenses by priests of innnocent children. What a guy!

BDoug wrote:

Psalm 147:4,5
He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names. Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite.

If he doesnt have the ability to foresee the beginning AND the end (alpha and omega as us catcholics are so dutifully reminded) then his understanding is definetly not infinite.

Psalm 33:13
The Lord looketh from heaven; he beholdeth all the sons of men.

This one take as you will, either you can interpret it as he sees all born sons of men (all people alive at this time) or all sons of men of all time, born, dead and to be born in the future.




Isaiah 46:10
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure.

Try this exercise:

Go to Borders Bookstore, or Dalton's.
Pick up the latest John Grisham novel.
Pay for it and take it home.
You now have the power and intelligence to skip the first 150 pages and go right to the end. But you might not do that.

God has no more obligation to peer into our moral futures than you have to peek at the end of the whodunit.

cicerone imposter wrote:

He takes pleasure in all the sufferings he created? He knew everything before he created everything; the bad and the good. He knew Satan would come from one of his angels. He knew man would have many sufferings including religious wars and the killings, rapes, and torture. He also knew of the sex offenses by priests of innnocent children. What a guy!

It's called free will

. . . Neo has just demonstrated for all of us the ability to carry on a train of thought totally and completely dislodged from the tracks of logic and reason.

So what you're telling me neo is that god has the ability to look into the future just chooses not to do it? What would be the reasoning and please dont say "god doesn't need a reason."

You would think a merciful god that has the ability to avert needless conflict (i.e. all of satans doing) would do so. He wouldn't sit idly by while the play unfolds simply to marvel at the fun of it all. (That was Zeus) lol

If god has the "power" and knowledge to create a heaven, why did he bypass it?

neo, Think about it; god provided man with "free will." That should be the same condition in heaven, isn't not? CLUE: There's a problem with reconciling this idea of free will for both earth and heaven if the majority of man on earth are sinners, and they are not in heaven. What's wrong with this picture?

That's called "heaven on earth." Sometimes, I've heard the term "paradise."

cicerone imposter wrote:

That's called "heaven on earth." Sometimes, I've heard the term "paradise."

If the bible were written today, instead of "lands where milk and honey flow" would be replaced with "gleaming cities where everyone owns a Lexus".

Makes it sound more like the ridiculous nonsense it really is, eh?

stlstrike3 wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

That's called "heaven on earth." Sometimes, I've heard the term "paradise."

If the bible were written today, instead of "lands where milk and honey flow" would be replaced with "gleaming cities where everyone owns a Lexus".

Makes it sound more like the ridiculous nonsense it really is, eh?

EXACTLY! I mean, why would everyone want to own a Lexus (aka toyota) when there are clearly superior machines??? ///M