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Should we be involved?

 
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 May, 2007 05:30 pm
In 1939 a Roper poll found that only thirty-nine percent of Americans felt that Jews should be treated like other people. Fifty-three percent believed that "Jews are different and should be restricted" and ten percent believed that Jews should be deported. [10] The United States' tight immigration policies were not lifted during the Holocaust, news of which began to reach the United States in 1941 and 1942 and it has been estimated that 190 000 - 200 000 Jews could have been saved during the Second World War had it not been for bureaucratic obstacles to immigration deliberately created by Breckinridge Long and others.[11]

Rescue of the European Jewish population was not a priority for the US during the war, and the American Jewish community did not realize the severity of the Holocaust until late in the conflict. Despite strong public and political sentiment to the contrary, however, there were some who encouraged the U.S. government to help victims of Nazi genocide. In 1943, just before Yom Kippur, 400 rabbis marched in Washington, DC to draw attention to the plight of Holocaust victims. (See "The Day the Rabbis Marched.") A week later, Senator William Warren Barbour (R; New Jersey), one of a handful of politicians who met with the rabbis on the steps of the U.S.Capitol, proposed legislation that would have allowed as many as 100,000 victims of the Holocaust to emigrate temporarily to the United States. Barbour died six weeks after introducing the bill, and it was not passed. A parallel bill was introduced in the House of Representatives by Rep. Samuel Dickstein (D; New York). This also failed to pass. (Davis S. Wyman Institute) Even after the Holocaust, the US did not change its immigration policies until 1948.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_United_States
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 May, 2007 06:55 am
anton wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
Good post and welcome to A2K fjf Smile

One thing that we should probably never forget is that millions of Jews had been shot, tortured to death, mutilated on medical tables, gassed, and incinerated before the USA got into WWII. Germany's neighbors had also been squashed under a totalitarian thumb and were stripped of their autonomy and human rights.

When we finally did accept the inevitability of war, it was not to rescue the remaining Jews or liberate Germany's neighbors, but it was in retaliation to an unprovoked and savage attack perpetuated by an Imperial Japan and to defend against a hostile Germany that automatically became our sworn enemy once we declared war on Japan. Fortunately for us, we had a strong and committed American public who did not accept defeat or withdrawal as an option once we were committed to prevail.

We (and the allied nations we joined) did prevail and eliminated both Germany and Japan and their satellite allies as any threat to the United States. That was the objective and intended result to be accomplished at a cost of many tens of millions of lives and hundreds of millions of wounded counting all that suffered on all sides.

The unintended but happy consequences? Millions of Jews were saved and freed from a fate worse than mere death. Millions more in various nations were given back their freedoms and ability for self determination. Germany and Japan and all their allies are now sovereign nations that are peaceful with their neighbors and friendly and important trading partners of the United States. Even the horrors of the Iron Curtain were relatively short lived and are now gone.

Was it all worth it?

You bet it was.

Would it have made a difference if our initial motive had been to rescue the Jews and liberate Germany's neighbors and to make friends with Germans, Japanese et al and the unintended result was to eliminate Japan and Germany as threats to the USA?


This is not quite accurate, the war against the Third Reich started in '39 and initially the US wanted nothing to do with what they called the European War, Britain and her Empire stood alone against the Germans till the end of '41 when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour and Adolf Hitler declared war on the US, it was only then that American was dragged, reluctantly, into the fight.


_________________


And how does what you are saying here in any way dispute what I said?
0 Replies
 
OGIONIK
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 May, 2007 07:26 am
it is no way americas responsibility what happens in the middle-east. Wait we made it our responsibility didn't we?
Time to suck it up, admit defeat, pull out of iraq AND NEVER AGAIN DEClARE WAR.

You would think humans would eventually, grow up.

we should focus on bringing to life these 4 things with the money we waste on war.

-free energy
-free food
-free water
-free information

OMG THE PROFIT MOTIVATION IS GONE! THE WORLD WILL COLLAPSE!
0 Replies
 
anton
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 May, 2007 08:09 am
Foxfyre wrote:


And how does what you are saying here in any way dispute what I said


German American Bund i.e. American Nazi Party was active in the US from 1933 to 1941 and they supported American neutrality, it was only after Adolf Hitler declared war on the US at the end of 1941 that they became recognized as a German Fifth Column and were outlawed.

Prior to Hitler's declaration of war with America the population of the US wanted nothing to do with what they termed, "The European War," so you can hardly say,"Fortunately for us, we had a strong and committed American public," if Hitler had not declared war on the US they would have remained neutral; they were only committed because they had no other choice and they wouldn't have given a damn for the wretched Jews and that's the truth.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 May, 2007 10:04 am
anton wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:


And how does what you are saying here in any way dispute what I said


German American Bund i.e. American Nazi Party was active in the US from 1933 to 1941 and they supported American neutrality, it was only after Adolf Hitler declared war on the US at the end of 1941 that they became recognized as a German Fifth Column and were outlawed.

Prior to Hitler's declaration of war with America the population of the US wanted nothing to do with what they termed, "The European War," so you can hardly say,"Fortunately for us, we had a strong and committed American public," if Hitler had not declared war on the US they would have remained neutral; they were only committed because they had no other choice and they wouldn't have given a damn for the wretched Jews and that's the truth.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 May, 2007 10:41 am
we should stay out of all conflicts anytime we have a president in office who's not bright enough to do up his trousers without catching his dick in his zipper.....

not to be confused with a president who can't keep his trousers done up at all.... :wink:
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 May, 2007 10:54 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
we should stay out of all conflicts anytime we have a president in office who's not bright enough to do up his trousers without catching his dick in his zipper.....

not to be confused with a president who can't keep his trousers done up at all.... :wink:
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 May, 2007 10:57 am
there's a big difference between pacifist and nosy bully....
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 May, 2007 10:58 am
what does us soil being attacked, and I assume you're refering to 9/11, have to do with invading iraq?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 May, 2007 11:19 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
what does us soil being attacked, and I assume you're refering to 9/11, have to do with invading iraq?


I didn't mention Iraq. But another member gave an excellent outline yesterday of why we did invade Iraq and it had nothing to do with 9/11 other than that it was 9/11 that initiated the war against terrorism.

My point was not to justify or criticize the invasion of Iraq. My point was that once the American people have committed to a cause they believe to be just and defensible--and the majority of American people and Congress did believe the invasion of Iraq to be just and defensible at the time it was initiated--the American people should have the backbone of the Americans in the 1940's who didn't wimp out, whimper and tuck tail, or give up just because what they chose to do was difficult and riddled with problems that had to be solved.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 May, 2007 11:20 am
Quote:
But another member gave an excellent outline yesterday of why we did invade Iraq and it had nothing to do with 9/11 other than that it was 9/11 that initiated the war against terrorism.


Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism, and certainly didn't have anything to do with AQ - until we opened the country to them, that is.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 May, 2007 11:28 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
what does us soil being attacked, and I assume you're refering to 9/11, have to do with invading iraq?


I didn't mention Iraq. But another member gave an excellent outline yesterday of why we did invade Iraq and it had nothing to do with 9/11 other than that it was 9/11 that initiated the war against terrorism.

My point was not to justify or criticize the invasion of Iraq. My point was that once the American people have committed to a cause they believe to be just and defensible--and the majority of American people and Congress did believe the invasion of Iraq to be just and defensible at the time it was initiated--the American people should have the backbone of the Americans in the 1940's who didn't wimp out, whimper and tuck tail, or give up just because what they chose to do was difficult and riddled with problems that had to be solved.


It takes a lot more balls to admit you were wrong and walk away than it does to continue to kick the **** out of some third world hell hole..... I can go over to a kinder care and beat hell out of all the students on any given day... that doesn't make me some gutsy icon... wake up....
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 May, 2007 11:31 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
what does us soil being attacked, and I assume you're refering to 9/11, have to do with invading iraq?


I didn't mention Iraq. But another member gave an excellent outline yesterday of why we did invade Iraq and it had nothing to do with 9/11 other than that it was 9/11 that initiated the war against terrorism.

My point was not to justify or criticize the invasion of Iraq. My point was that once the American people have committed to a cause they believe to be just and defensible--and the majority of American people and Congress did believe the invasion of Iraq to be just and defensible at the time it was initiated--the American people should have the backbone of the Americans in the 1940's who didn't wimp out, whimper and tuck tail, or give up just because what they chose to do was difficult and riddled with problems that had to be solved.


It takes a lot more balls to admit you were wrong and walk away than it does to continue to kick the **** out of some third world hell hole..... I can go over to a kinder care and beat hell out of all the students on any given day... that doesn't make me some gutsy icon... wake up....


Read the list posted yesterday and get back to me on that. Iraq was no schoolyard full of kindergarten kids.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 May, 2007 11:32 am
Compared to a modern military, it sure as hell was...

Sheesh

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 May, 2007 11:33 am
what cyclo said....
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 May, 2007 11:37 am
SHOCK AND AWE ! ! !

SHOCK AND AWE ! ! !

In the White House,
The Whitey White House,
The Liar sleeps tonight . . .

Shock and Awe
Shock and Awe
Shock and Awe . . .


It has been hilarious, in a sick, disgusting way, to watch the right twist and turn and do their gymnastics about why we needed to turn Iraq into a graveyard over the last four years.

I love the comparisons to the Heroic Second World War. The Japanese Imperial Navy attacked Hawaii on December 7, 1941. Four years later, December 7, 1945, the Pacific War had been over for more than three months. President Steponmydick still has us mired in the land of IEDs and Halliburton sweetheart contracts.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 May, 2007 11:43 am
Yeah, well tell that to the thousands of guys who have been killed by those 'kindergarteners' and/or the tens of thousands who have been wounded by them.

Also talk to the many tens of thousands of people with relatives in the mass graves at the order of Saddam and his thugs, to the people who had been tortured, raped, and worse and no longer live in fear of that, to the many tens of thousands who now vote and who can go about their lives relatively free of fear or interference, to the people with electricity and running water for the first time in a long time, to the kids in the outlying areas who have usable schools for the first time ever.

Are there still huge problems to solve? Of course there are. It took nine years from the Revolution to create a democratic republic in the United States--longer than that in Germany and Japan. Will it be worth it in Iraq to accomplish that? I believe it will. It wasn't why we went in the first place, but it is now the mission and we should see it through.

I'm not one to give up so easily as some of you are.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 May, 2007 11:45 am
of course you're not.... you're safely behind your computer screen.... just like the initiator of this clusterf**k you aren't in any danger.....
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 May, 2007 12:06 pm
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
of course you're not.... you're safely behind your computer screen.... just like the initiator of this clusterf**k you aren't in any danger.....


I have a lot of friends and relatives who are though. I would gladly trade places with any or all of them.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 May, 2007 12:06 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
I'm not one to give up so easily as some of you are.


Fox is willing to fight this out to the very bitter end, to the last drop of some other poor suckers blood.
0 Replies
 
 

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