Should we be involved?

Foxfyre wrote:

Good post and welcome to A2K fjf

One thing that we should probably never forget is that millions of Jews had been shot, tortured to death, mutilated on medical tables, gassed, and incinerated before the USA got into WWII. Germany's neighbors had also been squashed under a totalitarian thumb and were stripped of their autonomy and human rights.

When we finally did accept the inevitability of war, it was not to rescue the remaining Jews or liberate Germany's neighbors, but it was in retaliation to an unprovoked and savage attack perpetuated by an Imperial Japan and to defend against a hostile Germany that automatically became our sworn enemy once we declared war on Japan. Fortunately for us, we had a strong and committed American public who did not accept defeat or withdrawal as an option once we were committed to prevail.

We (and the allied nations we joined) did prevail and eliminated both Germany and Japan and their satellite allies as any threat to the United States. That was the objective and intended result to be accomplished at a cost of many tens of millions of lives and hundreds of millions of wounded counting all that suffered on all sides.

The unintended but happy consequences? Millions of Jews were saved and freed from a fate worse than mere death. Millions more in various nations were given back their freedoms and ability for self determination. Germany and Japan and all their allies are now sovereign nations that are peaceful with their neighbors and friendly and important trading partners of the United States. Even the horrors of the Iron Curtain were relatively short lived and are now gone.

Was it all worth it?

You bet it was.

Would it have made a difference if our initial motive had been to rescue the Jews and liberate Germany's neighbors and to make friends with Germans, Japanese et al and the unintended result was to eliminate Japan and Germany as threats to the USA?

This is not quite accurate, the war against the Third Reich started in '39 and initially the US wanted nothing to do with what they called the European War, Britain and her Empire stood alone against the Germans till the end of '41 when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour and Adolf Hitler declared war on the US, it was only then that American was dragged, reluctantly, into the fight.


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And how does what you are saying here in any way dispute what I said

Foxfyre wrote:

And how does what you are saying here in any way dispute what I said

German American Bund i.e. American Nazi Party was active in the US from 1933 to 1941 and they supported American neutrality, it was only after Adolf Hitler declared war on the US at the end of 1941 that they became recognized as a German Fifth Column and were outlawed.

Prior to Hitler's declaration of war with America the population of the US wanted nothing to do with what they termed, "The European War," so you can hardly say,"Fortunately for us, we had a strong and committed American public," if Hitler had not declared war on the US they would have remained neutral; they were only committed because they had no other choice and they wouldn't have given a damn for the wretched Jews and that's the truth.

we should stay out of all conflicts anytime we have a president in office who's not bright enough to do up his trousers without catching his dick in his zipper.....

not to be confused with a president who can't keep his trousers done up at all.... :wink:

what does us soil being attacked, and I assume you're refering to 9/11, have to do with invading iraq?

But another member gave an excellent outline yesterday of why we did invade Iraq and it had nothing to do with 9/11 other than that it was 9/11 that initiated the war against terrorism.

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

what does us soil being attacked, and I assume you're refering to 9/11, have to do with invading iraq?

I didn't mention Iraq. But another member gave an excellent outline yesterday of why we did invade Iraq and it had nothing to do with 9/11 other than that it was 9/11 that initiated the war against terrorism.

My point was not to justify or criticize the invasion of Iraq. My point was that once the American people have committed to a cause they believe to be just and defensible--and the majority of American people and Congress did believe the invasion of Iraq to be just and defensible at the time it was initiated--the American people should have the backbone of the Americans in the 1940's who didn't wimp out, whimper and tuck tail, or give up just because what they chose to do was difficult and riddled with problems that had to be solved.

Foxfyre wrote:

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

what does us soil being attacked, and I assume you're refering to 9/11, have to do with invading iraq?

I didn't mention Iraq. But another member gave an excellent outline yesterday of why we did invade Iraq and it had nothing to do with 9/11 other than that it was 9/11 that initiated the war against terrorism.

My point was not to justify or criticize the invasion of Iraq. My point was that once the American people have committed to a cause they believe to be just and defensible--and the majority of American people and Congress did believe the invasion of Iraq to be just and defensible at the time it was initiated--the American people should have the backbone of the Americans in the 1940's who didn't wimp out, whimper and tuck tail, or give up just because what they chose to do was difficult and riddled with problems that had to be solved.

It takes a lot more balls to admit you were wrong and walk away than it does to continue to kick the **** out of some third world hell hole..... I can go over to a kinder care and beat hell out of all the students on any given day... that doesn't make me some gutsy icon... wake up....

of course you're not.... you're safely behind your computer screen.... just like the initiator of this clusterf**k you aren't in any danger.....

I'm not one to give up so easily as some of you are.