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Welder, Plumber, Sniperman, Thief

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 07:25 am
What Set says.

Besides that

rabel22 wrote:
The iraq forces seem to attack whenever they want and kill anyone one they want both U.S. and iraqi with impunity.


Well, the US trained and train the Iraq forces. Perhaps they should improve it.
0 Replies
 
rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 07:16 pm
Strange. I don't see either of you condem the al queda forces for killing innocents. Only U.S. forces. Bush and his boys hired the Blackwater people so like it or not, and I don't, they are official U.S.forces. If someone shot at me and I had a gun you can bet that I would shoot back. And so would both of you. If I shot an innocent i would be very sorry but wouldent let it make me stop protecting my life.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2007 10:29 am
Quote:




klik for vid
requires 'real player'
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2007 02:32 pm
I'm reading the book "Blackwater" now and it's starting to really piss me off. This obsession with privatization to the point where they are not really even saving taxpayer money (it's gotten more expensive, not less) is making things worse for our actual military. The Iraqi people don't know the difference between contractors and military personnel, so the anger at contractor abuse and recklessness is felt by our forces, who have to actually abide by rules of engagement and can be held accountable for their actions. I thought the idea behind privatizing everything was that private companies can do it better because they are accountable for the f-ups. This doesn't appear to be the case at all. And their draining our armed forces of high quality personnel which taxpayers paid to train, in order to turn around and sell their services back to us at a premium. Whose really bad idea was this?
0 Replies
 
rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2007 05:04 pm
Bush and Chenys idea for spreading the wealth. Have you heard of Halburton?
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2007 09:25 pm
Yes. While I'm not so fond of that arrangement (because I think it is anti-competition and promotes government waste) it's not at all the same as having a parallel private military organization that is not accountable to, apparently, anyone.
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2007 09:37 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
The Iraqi people don't know the difference between contractors and military personnel, so the anger at contractor abuse and recklessness is felt by our forces, who have to actually abide by rules of engagement and can be held accountable for their actions.


This was due to a hole in our laws that was plugged with the FY'07 Defense authorization. Contractors could be held accountable under teh UCMJ if they were deployed as a part of a "declared war". This action, of course, hasn't been declared so they were able to fly under the radar. The FY '07 appropriations act corrected that and they are now subject to the UCMJ just like the military people are. (We'll still have to wait and see how well that works of course...)

Quote:
I thought the idea behind privatizing everything was that private companies can do it better because they are accountable for the f-ups. This doesn't appear to be the case at all.


To my knowledge, accountability has never been a consideration when it came to privatizing military functions. The A-76 process is 100% cost driven. Accoutability comes way after that in the form of penalties. Job impact to communities comes in higher as a concern than accountability does.
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2007 09:40 pm
rabel22 wrote:
Bush and Chenys idea for spreading the wealth. Have you heard of Halburton?


How many rounds of the BRAC process have taken place while Bush/Cheney have been in office????
0 Replies
 
Swimpy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jun, 2007 02:01 am
Circular A-76

Quote:
Policy. It is the policy of the United States Government to:


Achieve Economy and Enhance Productivity. Competition enhances quality, economy, and productivity. Whenever commercial sector performance of a Government operated commercial activity is permissible, in accordance with this Circular and its Supplement, comparison of the cost of contracting and the cost of in-house performance shall be performed to determine who will do the work. When conducting cost comparisons, agencies must ensure that all costs are considered and that these costs are realistic and fair.




UCMJ

BRAC

Not really sure what your point is about BRAC as it relates to rebel's comment on Haliburton
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jun, 2007 07:28 am
fishin wrote:
The FY '07 appropriations act corrected that and they are now subject to the UCMJ just like the military people are. (We'll still have to wait and see how well that works of course...)


Yeah, we'll see. I'm not sure how that jibes with Bremer's immunity edict on his way out of Dodge.

Quote:
To my knowledge, accountability has never been a consideration when it came to privatizing military functions.


Maybe not military functions. I admit that the argument I'm referring to was one made by a friend and not the government. Anyhoo, he posited that people in government never got fired if they did a bad job, so private companies would do it better because they're accountable -- they'd get fired or lose business. And I guess that's still technically true for these contractors, it's just that I don't think getting fired is enough of a punishment for recklessly killing people.
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jun, 2007 08:33 am
Swimpy wrote:


Not really sure what your point is about BRAC as it relates to rebel's comment on Haliburton


The 5 BRAC rounds are the process that was used to downsize/reorganize the military since 1988 to reap the supposed "Peace Dividend". A large part of that process was also the privitization of many functions.

The majority of functions Haliburton provides in Iraq is directly related. The BRAC process gutted transportation (i.e. Logistics supply chain) and food services functions on military installations. Those functions were privatized so there are few military personnel to perform those functions in a deployment situation.

Unless the BRAC thought-process is revisited and revised, any futture military actions will continue to have contractors providing the trucking and food services functions.
0 Replies
 
Swimpy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jun, 2007 08:45 am
I understand that, but why were you asking how many rounds had taken place during Bush/Cheney?
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jun, 2007 09:14 am
Because BRAC rounds were conducted in 1988, 1991, 1993, 1995 and 2005. The 2005 round's report was final this time last year (May 2006) and has just started being implemented in January of this year.

One can question the wisdom of their decisions to go into Iraq or the no-bid contracting process but the prior BRAC rounds left them with the process of going to outside contractors to fill these functions to begin with just as any future administration will have to do for any major deployment of the military (unless the BRAC process is changed).

Bush/Cheney didn't just go to Haliburton, Blackwater or anyone else on a whim to "share the wealth". They went to contractors because there was no military infrastructure to fill the functions.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jun, 2007 09:18 am
Perhaps you recall who the Secretary of Defense was in 1988 and 1991?
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jun, 2007 09:27 am
Quote:


Inquirer Homepage > Opinion & Editorial >
Monday, Jun 4, 2007
Opinion & Editorial
Posted on Sun, Jun. 03, 2007
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What if our mercenaries turn on us?
Chris Hedges is a graduate of Harvard Divinity School and won a Pulitzer Prize as a foreign correspondent for the New York Times

Armed units from the private security firm Blackwater USA opened fire in Baghdad streets twice in two days last week. It triggered a standoff between the security contractors and Iraqi forces, a reminder that the war in Iraq may be remembered mostly in our history books for empowering and building America's first modern mercenary army.

There are an estimated 20,000 to 30,000 armed security contractors working in Iraq, although there are no official figures and some estimates run much higher. Security contractors are not counted as part of the coalition forces. When the number of private mercenary fighters is added to other civilian military "contractors" who carry out logistical support activities such as food preparation, the number rises to about 126,000.

"We got 126,000 contractors over there, some of them making more than the secretary of defense," said House defense appropriations subcommittee Chairman John Murtha (D., Pa.). "How in the hell do you justify that?"

The privatization of war hands an incentive to American corporations, many with tremendous political clout, to keep us mired down in Iraq. But even more disturbing is the steady rise of this modern Praetorian Guard. The Praetorian Guard in ancient Rome was a paramilitary force that defied legal constraints, made violence part of the political discourse, and eventually plunged the Roman Republic into tyranny and despotism. Despotic movements need paramilitary forces that operate outside the law, forces that sow fear among potential opponents, and are capable of physically silencing those branded by their leaders as traitors. And in the wrong hands, a Blackwater could well become that force.

American taxpayers have so far handed a staggering $4 billion to "armed security" companies in Iraq such as Blackwater, according to House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman Rep. Henry Waxman (D., Calif.). Tens of billions more have been paid to companies that provide logistical support. Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D., Ill.) of the House Intelligence Committee estimates that 40 cents of every dollar spent on the occupation has gone to war contractors. It is unlikely that any of these corporations will push for an early withdrawal. The profits are too lucrative.

Mercenary forces like Blackwater operate beyond civilian and military law. They are covered by a 2004 edict passed by American occupation authorities in Iraq that immunizes all civilian contractors in Iraq from prosecution.

Blackwater, barely a decade old, has migrated from Iraq to set up operations in the United States and nine other countries. It trains Afghan security forces and has established a base a few miles from the Iranian border. The huge contracts from the war - including $750 million from the State Department since 2004 - have allowed Blackwater to amass a fleet of more than 20 aircraft, including helicopter gunships. Jeremy Scahill, the author of Blackwater: The Rise of the World's Most Powerful Mercenary Army, points out that Blackwater has also constructed "the world's largest private military facility - a 7,000-acre compound near the Great Dismal Swamp of North Carolina." Blackwater also recently opened a facility in Illinois ("Blackwater North") and, despite local opposition, is moving ahead with plans to build another huge training base near San Diego. The company recently announced it was creating a private intelligence branch called "Total Intelligence."

Erik Prince, who founded and runs Blackwater, is a man who appears to have little time for the niceties of democracy. He has close ties with the radical Christian Right and the Bush White House. He champions his company as a patriotic extension of the U.S. military. His employees, in an act as cynical as it is dishonest, take an oath of loyalty to the Constitution. But what he and his allies have built is a mercenary army, paid for with government money, which operates outside the law and without constitutional constraint.

Mercenary units are a vital instrument in the hands of despotic movements. Communist and fascist movements during the last century each built rogue paramilitary forces. And the appearance of Blackwater fighters, heavily armed and wearing their trademark black uniforms, patrolling the streets of New Orleans in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, may be a grim taste of the future. In New Orleans Blackwater charged the government $240,000 a day.

" 'It cannot happen here' is always wrong," the philosopher Karl Popper wrote. "A dictatorship can happen anywhere."

The word contractor helps launder the fear and threat out of a more accurate term: "paramilitary force." We're not supposed to have such forces in the United States, but we now do. And if we have them, we have a potential threat to democracy. On U.S. soil, Blackwater so far has shown few signs of being an out-and-out rogue retainer army, though they looked the part in New Orleans. But were this country to become even a little less stable, outfits like Blackwater might see a heyday. If the United States falls into a period of instability caused by another catastrophic terrorist attack, an economic meltdown that triggers social unrest, or a series of environmental disasters, such paramilitary forces, protected and assisted by fellow ideologues in the police and military, could ruthlessly abolish what is left of our eroding democracy. War, with the huge profits it hands to corporations, and to right-wing interests such as the Christian Right, could become a permanent condition. And the thugs with automatic weapons, black uniforms and wraparound sunglasses who appeared on the streets in New Orleans could appear on our streets.

Chris Hedges ([email protected]) is author, mostly recently, of "American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America."



Source

Sound extreme? Consider that 'Blackwater is only one of the major players. What happens when altruism and greed have a collision? Will the issue be decided on might, or right .... CEO or President?
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jun, 2007 09:27 am
1988 = Franck Carlucci
1991 = Dick Cheney
1993 = Les Aspin
1995 = William Perry

Are you trying to say that Cheney gets the blame for what happened under the other 3??
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jun, 2007 09:39 am
I'm saying this was the brainchild of the people who are in power today. Cheney certainly had a lot to do with it and, IMO, profited from it. That's not excusing the Clinton admin of continuing it, mind you.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jun, 2007 11:22 am
I may be blaming Cheney unfairly. I was thinking the first closures were in 1989, not 1988. And I guess even if they were, it's not like it's a unilateral decision by the Secretary of Defense.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2007 12:12 pm
Found this today, it's old but still good. When it was written, the author presumably did not yet know that the members of this mercenary army come from all over the world, including Chile and South Africa.

David Kennedy: The Best Army Money Can Buy

Quote:
THE United States now has a mercenary army. To be sure, our soldiers are hired from within the citizenry, unlike the hated Hessians whom George III recruited to fight against the American Revolutionaries. But like those Hessians, today's volunteers sign up for some mighty dangerous work largely for wages and benefits - a compensation package that may not always be commensurate with the dangers in store, as current recruiting problems testify.

Neither the idealism nor the patriotism of those who serve is in question here. The profession of arms is a noble calling, and there is no shame in wage labor. But the fact remains that the United States today has a military force that is extraordinarily lean and lethal, even while it is increasingly separated from the civil society on whose behalf it fights. This is worrisome - for reasons that go well beyond unmet recruiting targets.

One troubling aspect is obvious. By some reckonings, the Pentagon's budget is greater than the military expenditures of all other nations combined. It buys an arsenal of precision weapons for highly trained troops who can lay down a coercive footprint in the world larger and more intimidating than anything history has known. Our leaders tell us that our armed forces seek only just goals, and at the end of the day will be understood as exerting a benign influence. Yet that perspective may not come so easily to those on the receiving end of that supposedly beneficent violence.

But the modern military's disjunction from American society is even more disturbing. Since the time of the ancient Greeks through the American Revolutionary War and well into the 20th century, the obligation to bear arms and the privileges of citizenship have been intimately linked. It was for the sake of that link between service and a full place in society that the founders were so invested in militias and so worried about standing armies, which Samuel Adams warned were "always dangerous to the liberties of the people."

Many African-Americans understood that link in the Civil War, and again in World Wars I and II, when they clamored for combat roles, which they saw as stepping stones to equal rights. From Aristotle's Athens to Machiavelli's Florence to Thomas Jefferson's Virginia and Robert Gould Shaw's Boston and beyond, the tradition of the citizen-soldier has served the indispensable purposes of sustaining civic engagement, protecting individual liberty - and guaranteeing political accountability.

That tradition has now been all but abandoned. A comparison with a prior generation's war illuminates the point. In World War II, the United States put some 16 million men and women into uniform. What's more, it mobilized the economic, social and psychological resources of the society down to the last factory, rail car, classroom and victory garden. World War II was a "total war." Waging it compelled the participation of all citizens and an enormous commitment of society's energies.

But thanks to something that policymakers and academic experts grandly call the "revolution in military affairs," which has wedded the newest electronic and information technologies to the destructive purposes of the second-oldest profession, we now have an active-duty military establishment that is, proportionate to population, about 4 percent of the size of the force that won World War II. And today's military budget is about 4 percent of gross domestic product, as opposed to nearly 40 percent during World War II.

The implications are deeply unsettling: history's most potent military force can now be put into the field by a society that scarcely breaks a sweat when it does so. We can now wage war while putting at risk very few of our sons and daughters, none of whom is obliged to serve. Modern warfare lays no significant burdens on the larger body of citizens in whose name war is being waged.

This is not a healthy situation. It is, among other things, a standing invitation to the kind of military adventurism that the founders correctly feared was the greatest danger of standing armies - a danger made manifest in their day by the career of Napoleon Bonaparte, whom Jefferson described as having "transferred the destinies of the republic from the civil to the military arm."

Some will find it offensive to call today's armed forces a "mercenary army," but our troops are emphatically not the kind of citizen-soldiers that we fielded two generations ago - drawn from all ranks of society without respect to background or privilege or education, and mobilized on such a scale that civilian society's deep and durable consent to the resort to arms was absolutely necessary.

Leaving questions of equity aside, it cannot be wise for a democracy to let such an important function grow so far removed from popular participation and accountability. It makes some supremely important things too easy - like dealing out death and destruction to others, and seeking military solutions on the assumption they will be swifter and more cheaply bought than what could be accomplished by the more vexatious business of diplomacy.

The life of a robust democratic society should be strenuous; it should make demands on its citizens when they are asked to engage with issues of life and death. The "revolution in military affairs" has made obsolete the kind of huge army that fought World War II, but a universal duty to service - perhaps in the form of a lottery, or of compulsory national service with military duty as one option among several - would at least ensure that the civilian and military sectors do not become dangerously separate spheres. War is too important to be left either to the generals or the politicians. It must be the people's business.
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jul, 2007 09:24 pm
Mercenary

A mercenary is a person who takes part in an armed conflict who is not a national of a Party to the conflict and "is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a Party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party".


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercinary#Mercenaries_through_history
------------------------------------------

Private Military Companies (PMCs)

A strand of the contemporary mercenary trade sometimes goes under the label of the Private military company or PMC, which provides logistics, manpower, training and other services. PMCs' contractors are civilians (in governments, international and non-governmental organizations) authorized to accompany a force in the field. Hence, the terminology "civilian contractor" is sometimes used. PMCs may use force, hence they can be defined as: "legally established enterprises that make a profit by either providing services involving the potential exercise of force in a systematic way and by military means, and/or by the transfer of that potential to clients through training and other practices, such as logistics support, equipment procurement, and intelligence gathering".[12]

-------------------------------------

In 2004 the industry was given a huge boost because PMCs were employed by the US and other coalition members to do security work in Iraq. In March 2004, four employees of Blackwater USA who were guarding food shipments were attacked and killed in Fallujah. In the well publicised incident, the killings and subsequent desecration of the bodies were contributory causes for the First Battle of Fallujah, which occurred shortly after the killings. PMCs also received a boost from Afghanistan operations, where many PMC employees serve as private security forces for heads of state such as Hamid Karzai.[citation needed]
0 Replies
 
 

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