on the left is a table

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Is it possible to tolerate a sentence like this?

"On the left is a table and on the right is a chair."

I think it is absolutely necessary to use "there is".

For example "On the left there is a table." Or "There is a table on the left."

Is there any rule that would allow a writer to leave out "there is" when describing a place?

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Re: on the left is a table

stach wrote:

Is it possible to tolerate a sentence like this?

"On the left is a table and on the right is a chair."

I think it is absolutely necessary to use "there is".

For example "On the left there is a table." Or "There is a table on the left."

Is there any rule that would allow a writer to leave out "there is" when describing a place?

The sentence is fine as written--without "there is." The only thing wrong with it is that there should be a comma before the and.

You've got subjects and verbs. That's all you need for an acceptable sentence. If you change the order of the words, you'll see that it's ok.

A table is on the left, and a chair is on the right. Same words; different order.

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So when you teach students to use "there is" and they don't use it in a test and instead tranlate word by word from their first language, it is not necessary to correct that?

Or there is a picture of a living room. The students are asked to describe the picture using "there is" and "there are". What if a student says: "On the left is a table, at the back is a television, above it is a picture...". Do you say "that is also correct English" ? Then why would people bother to use "there is"? At least Czech students would not, as we don't have such a grammar expression in Czech. It exists in German (es gibt), in French (il y a), in Italian (c'e ) etc but not in Czech so most students keep forgetting to use it.

Thanks for the reply, Roberta.

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stach wrote:

So when you teach students to use "there is" and they don't use it in a test and instead tranlate word by word from their first language, it is not necessary to correct that?

Or there is a picture of a living room. The students are asked to describe the picture using "there is" and "there are". What if a student says: "On the left is a table, at the back is a television, above it is a picture...". Do you say "that is also correct English" ? Then why would people bother to use "there is"? At least Czech students would not, as we don't have such a grammar expression in Czech. It exists in German (es gibt), in French (il y a), in Italian (c'e ) etc but not in Czech so most students keep forgetting to use it.

Thanks for the reply, Roberta.

If you tell the students that they must use "there is" and "there are" in the answer and they don't, then they're wrong. If the specific assignment is to do something and they don't do it, it doesn't matter whether the answer is right. They didn't follow instructions.

You might want to consider giving partial credit for something written in correct English even if they didn't follow instructions. But I wouldn't mark them as correct.

Example: I'm told on a test to write the answer in the past tense. I use the future tense. What I write is perfect, but I'm wrong.

Stach, This is more a teaching question than an English question. I can take you only so far with this.

As for the necessity of "there are" and "there is. " Sometimes they're necessary, and sometimes they're not. It depends on the construction.

There are three people in the room. (correct)

Three people are in the room. (correct but non essential)

There are countless ways to cook green beans. (correct)

Countless ways exist for cooking green beans. (This is more challenging; some rewording is necessary to make it work. Hence, "there are" and "there is" are essential to the construction.)

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I am correcting my students' essays and I would like to know what I should correct. I am still a bit confused. What you explained above makes sense but ... what about these specific sentences my students wrote>

Around this house is a huge garden.

In the house is a kitchen...

In the living room is just a table.

In the bedroom is a wardrobe with clothes.

On the other side of the room is a huge window.

These above sentences don't look very English to me, maybe it is a kind of poetic or old fashioned style, I don't know. So should I leave them as they are?

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Re: on the left is a table

stach wrote:

Is it possible to tolerate a sentence like this?

"On the left is a table and on the right is a chair."

I think it is absolutely necessary to use "there is".

For example "On the left there is a table." Or "There is a table on the left."

Is there any rule that would allow a writer to leave out "there is" when describing a place?

Actually I think you can leave it out of the original sentence if you want..

"On the left is a table and on the right a chair."

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Stuh--

Quote:

Around this house is a huge garden.

In the house is a kitchen...

In the living room is just a table.

In the bedroom is a wardrobe with clothes.

On the other side of the room is a huge window.

I learned from my father to correct student compositions in two colors. Marks in red indicated definite error. Marks in green indicated phrases that were technically correct but not graceful.

I'd suggest to these students:

The house was surrounded by a huge garden.

There is a kitchen in the house. (If you have conferences with these kids, ask why the kitchen is the most important room. If it isn't the most important room, why single it out?)

A table was the only furniture in the living room.

A wardrobe filled with clothing is in the bedroom. (Ask why the wardrobe and clothes are the most important items in a room usually devoted to sleeping.)

In general you might tell the kids that while starting sentences with prepositional phrases gives some variety, the technique can be overused.

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oh, i think i am beginning to understand

There is a subtle change in the meaning and when "there is" is not used, the meaning is slightly altered and what native speakers are trying to say usually is the meaning where "there is" is necessary. That's why one hardly ever comes across "in the house is a kitchen".

But isn't it a rule that the place must come after the subject?

"In Prague I live. In the north are the mountains."

These sentences sound really wrong to me. Or they sound like poetry.

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Noddy24 wrote:

Stuh--

I think you mean stach not me..

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Stuh--

Sorry.

Stach--

If the sentence sounds akward, it probably is akward--not wrong, but not graceful.

In English the subject of the sentence usually comes near the beginning of the sentence.

Tell your students you want them to sound like native speakers rather than foreign students.

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stach wrote:

oh, i think i am beginning to understand

There is a subtle change in the meaning and when "there is" is not used, the meaning is slightly altered and what native speakers are trying to say usually is the meaning where "there is" is necessary. That's why one hardly ever comes across "in the house is a kitchen".

But isn't it a rule that the place must come after the subject?

"In Prague I live. In the north are the mountains."

These sentences sound really wrong to me. Or they sound like poetry.

There is no rule that a place must come after a subject. Prague is where I live. Or I live in Prague. The mountains are in the north.

The sentences you quote from your students are not so much wrong as just awkward. No native English speaker talks like that.

Around this house is a huge garden. There's a huge garden surrounding this house. (Around sounds strange.)

In the house is a kitchen... There is a kitchen in the house. Or The kitchen is in the house.

In the living room is just a table. The table is in the living room. Or There is a table in the living room.

In the bedroom is a wardrobe with clothes. Wardrobe is not a common usage. A wardrobe is the clothes you own. My wardrobe is casual. Do you mean closet? My clothes are in the closet in the bedroom.

On the other side of the room is a huge window.

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A wardrobe can be a thing -- a large, uh, piece of furniture for hanging clothes. As in "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe."

http://www.made-in-china.com/image/2f0j00YoEQTctPoaAgM/Antique-Furniture-2-Doors-Wardrobe-XY-338-.jpg

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I agree, soz. If you don't have a closet, then I guess you have a wardrobe. Not a common occurence in the US. Probably more common in Europe.

This means that your wardrobe is in your wardrobe.

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One reason non native speakers may think they require "there is/are" is that in European languages like French, a distinction is made between (a)presence within sight (voila) and (b)presence elsewhere (il y a). Since no such distinction is required in English the usage of "there" in (b) is semantically redundant where no actual "pointing" takes place.

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A wardrobe

My students usually use British English and wardrobe is the British equivalent for closet.

I know you can say

Prague is where I live.

But can you say "In Prague I live"?

so that is the rule I mean - subject, verb, object , place, time - a standard structure I killed the cat in the bathroom last night.

you guys often say It is not wrong, but sounds strange or a native speaker would not say that.

I just remember I read somewhere in a British textbook that English grammar is based on what native speakers really say or write

So when native speakers say What are you looking at? then it becomes a rule.

If no native speaker says In the kitchen is a table, then it is wrong grammar.

I guess it is a good way how to decide what is wrong and right in English.

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on the left is a table

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