Don Imus : The good-natured racist

Yeah, but he is still a weasel.

Joe(used to listen, got bored)Nation

I'm hopelessly out of it- although I do know who Don Imus is - and I do know he has a benevolent streak of decency, apparent more in the way he lives maybe than the things he says, but that's probably due to the pressures of his job in some part. And I think what he did here played into that- he's an old guy in a young guy's game.

Was the person he was having the discussion with a black person? When I read the transcript, to me it sounded like he was trying to play home boy or something, because the other guy was. Or maybe it was two white guys trying to sound cool. I don't know...

I'm not black, so I can't say anything from that point of view except the part that was most insulting (and it was insulting) was that he called these girls "ho's". And I don't care what anyone says, that's denigrating to any woman of any race or any age- because it places them in a certain class of women. And for these women who are serious students and athletes working hard to achieve excellence in their studies and as athletes- it just negates everything else about them except what some men see women as being useful for and as.
And I find it even more offensive on their behalf that these two guys DID NOT know them and were making assumptions about them because of maybe the color of their skin, or the fact that they had tattoos.

The nappy hair thing- I tell my son all the time (he's interracial) "You need a haircut- your hair's getting nappy." Black people describe themselves or each other in that way. It's like white people say, "You have split ends..." but if someone who didn't know me said on national radio "Aidan's a straggly haired ho" when all I'm trying to do is work hard and excel at my craft, whatever it might be- that's just disrespectful and out of line.

Racism is never benign to the person upon whom it's inflicted. It wounds and scars and humiliates.

But I agree that Imus (at heart) is not that type of guy. I think he just wanted to show he could hang with the homies and it backfired.

Maybe now he'll devote more time to his ranch for children with disabilities instead of adding to the morass of stupidity on our airwaves. That might be one good thing that could come out of this.

Imus is like a lot of us... part racist... part racial idealist... part attacker.... part benefactor... part good... part bad.... he just happens to be the guy who got nailed. It would have been someone else but the card came up with his name on it.

His biggest crime is being unfunny. You can get away with a lot if your delivery is cute and/or clever. His was neither.

I have no sympathy for him. He should have known better than to do something so mean spirited and stupid on a regular basis without thinking that eventually it would bite him on the ass.

Maybe we'll all learn from this and move on in a more positive direction. Uh huh.

Do I detect sarcasm?
Because I mean- what's the alternative?

I personally think he will have had to had learned something...you know, like just exactly what it takes to lose your job. But even if he doesn't learn anything- I know he has that ranch that he can spend his now free time on... let's just hope he doesn't start benignly calling the kids with disabilities any names.

Imus is filthy rich.... he doesn't need his radio or tv show.... he feigned a little accountability for appearances sake and now is off scott free.... so it is with all men of wealth and influence or power....from Imus to bush.... do you expect that to change ever? Keep dreaming.

I will - mostly for my childrens' sake, but also because it's an ingrained trait of mine.

But what do you mean when you say he got "off scot free" anyway? On the one hand you say he didn't do anything anybody else hasn't done, and on the other you make it sound like he should be drawn and quartered for it.

I can't seem to get a handle on what you think he did or didn't do and what you think should or shouldn't be the result.

It was a little piece of nastiness and that's what seems to draw advertisers (and money) in America. We (the consumers) can change that. I'm not sure enough people want to. Enough people enjoy this sort of crap that we have it served up to us on every tv and radio station you put on.
But again, if we really wanted it changed- we're the ones who weild the power to change it.
I'm not worried about people like Imus or Bush. I'm more worried about those among us who constantly choose to give these specific types of people power. We can point fingers at them, but what does it say about us that we choose them to speak to and for us?

aidan from a different thread on the same subject.... this is what I think of the situation.

I certainly agree with my bride to an extent but EVERYONE is a victim at one time or another and everyone has the potential to become a victim just any old time.

The Irish aren't victims but in turn of the Century America they were... shanty white trash looked down on by everyone and relegated to **** positions and poverty. Mexicans? Victimized right now as we speak. Plain old white people? Look at your history. sliced, diced, raped and pillaged in England by every country and peoples on the Eurioean continent, including the Moors. The Druids were wiped out in a DAY. We all get our turn in the barrel. Chat with an American Indian.

As far as teaching people how to treat us, that is true to an extent but some people are born to situations where they are never given a chance to teach people anything positive about themselves, because basically no one gives a ****.

When I was young I watched Kojak and Naked City therefore thought that if I were to go to there I would surely be mugged or shot while walking down the street or God forbid stepped on to a subway. of course, that's nonsense. Most people in new York city spend their entire lives there and nothing more happens to them than happens to me in my little affluent section of North Raleigh.

Go to the Mid West and (East St Louis aside) you'll see less black people in a day traveling the state of Missouri than I see at the mall here in Raleigh on a Saturday afternoon. Even more disproportiante the farther West you go I would think.

So where do all these caucasian youth get their impression of what black people are about? Television, popular music, and magazines that feature money, pussy and bling as the things to aspire to. What do you expect?
And blacks who wish to empower themselves perpetuate this stereotype ON PURPOSE.... in partnership with white publishing and record executives in many cases. These rappers are selling their own people just like some African tribal leaders did 400 years ago.

When rap first came on the scene I liked it. It was rebellious and it was black youth finding and expressing themselves and their angst and anger, and so what? We listened to Led Zeppelin and look how well we turned out. But then it went from rap music to "Hip Hop Culture" and individuals saw there was a tremendous amount of money to be made, especially if it could be crossed over and marketed to the white kids. So, like everything else it was taken to it's lowest common denominator and now we have bitches, hos', and wiggers. Problem is, even black kids are laughing at these pathetic little dj Trevors running around with their hats to the back and tying to pose as inner city black thugs.

plain truth is, given the opportunity EVERYONE is hateful and racist, and at different times in history someone is the F**ker and someone is the f**kee. Let me add that there are people who have evolved past that. We usually kill them.

I have said on these threads before that I was brought up a minority white kid in a slum area and the black kids beat me up and called me a white bitch at every opportunity and the white kids in the neighborhoods that bordered mine told me to go back and hang with the rest of the niggers when I attempted tointeract with them. People, all people are a lovely group and that certainly seems to cross all lines of race, religion etc.

The thing being completely overlooked here, the number one problem and the biggest problem I have with Imus, Mencia, Ludacris, whoever, is that their schtick is just stupid. Someone was going to get nailed for this **** and it just happens to be Imus. Could have been someone else. there will be another week or so of discussion and then things will return to status quo, people will continue to make stupid jokes at the expense of others and nothing will change really.

Unless we try to stop being stupid and realize that the majority of black people are not crack addicts and thus, and the majority of white people are not confederate flag flying redneck crackers, that all Mexicans aren't illegal immigrant welfare cheats, and that all Middle Eastern people aren't Al Queida sympathizers.

but hell, what if we stopped being stupid? That wouldn't sell any records, magazines, fashion or boost media ratings.... and without media ratings... no advertising revenue.

Will we ever wise up? I doubt it. Not collectively. But if everyone would just TRY, just DO THEIR BEST, to wise up individually, then that would certainly go a long way to changing things. In fact, it's the only way really.

Nice- but where do you get off telling me to keep dreaming? You got a little dream of your own going on there. Good for you...in all seriousness and with respect- I mean it- I couldn't have said it better.

I have to tell you, it all looks pretty crazy from over here. I feel like I escaped to the land of tolerance (I know the UK has their issues- but racially- it's nothing like the US) and I'm getting more and more nervous about putting myself right back into the middle of all that nasty craziness (in August when we move back to the US).

But the thing that keeps me hopeful (what you call dreaming) is that I have seen positive change on occasion and that has reminded me that for some people sometimes, it does all come together (admittedly on rare occasions). It's not always and totally a lost cause- although I admit and agree that sometimes it looks that way when you're right in the middle of it.

I tell you to keep dreaming because I'm an idealist... a facilitator... a Care Bear.... the man who puts the care in karaoke.... I'm damn near a freakin' saint..... you weren't aware of this? You're the last to know?

I guess so- but the important thing is that I know now- right?

I have a question some one brought up about this - would it be different if Imus was black? Would he be in so much trouble and lose his job? And if, no is that o-k? Being of a particular group - does that give you the all clear to make fun of it?

Sort of like on Senfield how he felt his dentist became Jewish so he could tell Jewish jokes. (Which afforded him as a comedian, not as a Jewish person).

I personally think it is different when people who are of a group talk in ways that are understood as acceptable within that group, than when people outside that group do it.

For instance- I could joke with my son and say "Geez Joey, you look like some nappy headed boy" and we'd both laugh and go get his hair cut. And if a black person whom we didn't know said the same thing to him as in "Boy you need to comb out them bullets or go get that hair cut" we'd laugh and it'd be okay because we could be pretty sure of his or her intent.
But if a white person we didn't know called my son "boy"- I would bridle. If a white person called my son "nappy-headed", again, I would bridle- because I wouldn't be sure of his or her intent. Those words from the mouths of white people have historically been spoken with racist intent toward black people.

That's the difference.

I think nappy-headed said by some people in some contexts can be affectionate.
Said by others in other contexts- it's offensive.
Same with boy- he is my boy. But I would never call a black male I didn't know "boy"- never.
I think "ho" towards a woman you know nothing about- is an insult.
If it's some sort of pet name both people have agreed on- that's another issue.

It's the same as how you or I can complain about our nationality or our family or aspects of our religion or culture or the way we choose to live and its fine because we know them, we've experienced them, and they belong to us and are ours to complain about- but when other people talk about our family or our nationality or our religion, or culture, or the way we choose to live in a negative way - we take offense.

To put it simply- I think people shouldn't comment on what they know nothing about. That'd be the safest thing.

i don't know if any of you have seen the "borat" movie ?
i don't think it's particularly good , but cohen managed to draw out the somewhat mean and dark side of humanity in some some of the episodes .
since we have the dvd , we watched it for a second time ... and were somewhat shocked looking at the underbelly of humans in some of those scenes .
in that respect imus - we can't get his broadcasts here btw - and some of the "rockers" are playing to a particular audience who find satisfaction in showing what they think of people who they think are easy targets (and are having a dificult time fighting back) .
hbg

Is it o-k for rappers to call women "Ho"?

linkat wrote :



i certainly don't think so !
as i said ""rockers" are playing to a particular audience who find satisfaction in showing what they think of people who they think are easy targets (and are having a dificult time fighting back) . ""

i hope that explains how i see it .
how can those persons - mostly women - fight back ?
perhaps they could tell their boyfriends that they'll leave them if they hear them playing that kind of music .
perhaps i'm wrong , but imo some of those young girls seem almost in bondage to those "boyzz"(black , white and purple - to make my point clear) - or am i overstating my case ?
at my age i'm not always up-to-date of current social norms and customs .
hbg

In my book, it's okay for anyone to call any woman "ho" if she's accepted that as an affectionate or complimentary term. If she hasn't- it's wrong.
Those girls on the basketball team didn't have a relationship with Imus- they didn't know him- he didn't know them. He was making negative and insulting assumptions when he called them "ho's". Because obviously- they weren't happy with it. Sad to say, some women like being thought of as ho's- especially younger women- and of every race. I've taught in highschool- I'm not exaggerating when I tell you some of these girls find it to be a compliment. That's a whole different issue.

But yeah, black people and/or rappers don't always make the right choices either.
But when it comes to racist or derogitory terminology against their own - it will be taken in a different way.
As when Jews lampoon Jews, or lawyers lampoon lawyers, or women lampoon women, or heavy people lampoon heavy people.
That's just the way it is.

I know I said this, but I don't really think it's okay. What I meant is that it's a sad commentary on our society and reveals how little some young women value themselves as well as where they place what value they do see themselves as having.
It's also disturbing that some men choose to view women this way- although that's been going on for years- to the point that the terminology has become abbreviated and universally recognized.
Acceptance of it by large groups of women is a fairly new phenomenon.

But I realize I can't control how people do or don't wish to be referred to by their partners- that's none of my business.

But when radio personalities or rappers label women in this way without their express permission or consent- it's definitely wrong, and I think there should be something said or done about it.
And I do. I don't listen to those programs or buy those records or go to those movies.

It is difficult because what for one person is harmless fun, for some one else it is offensive and hurtful.

Imus intentions may have been harmless fun (we don't know what his intentions were), but for many it was offensive.

If some one were to overhear you call your child nappy head - they could be offended even if you mean it in the most affectionate way. Would this be wrong?

Say you are a black comedian and you tell black jokes using nappy head, and other words coming from a white person would be offensive. Is this comedian adding to the problem by appearing to accept these terms? Could this still be offensive to black people even coming from some one of their own race?

If they're meaning whore, of course not.