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the universe and space....?

 
 
akaMechsmith
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Nov, 2003 07:54 pm
Yes, Ican I think that you have just given me a way to translate the total of accelerations acting upon a (poetic) photon to Z. I'm gonna sleep on it for a while. (The arches worked but I don't know how to say it. Sad )

This (your column of figures) ie "when D=1 then Z=0.0001" will need to be adjusted in order to reflect the accelerations at that distance.

I haven't yet figured out a nice way to show it yet but I like your idea.
It may show up like that sometime.Possibly, Heading hopefully towards probably. Smile Maybe----
0 Replies
 
gold einstein
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Nov, 2009 02:08 pm
@ebrown p,
"It is mathematically impossible for you to be at the edge of the Universe."
"I can show you mathematically why it is certain that "no space" exists outside of the Universe." Can you show me the formula or a site?
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Dec, 2009 11:13 am
@pyko,
pyko wrote:
But my question is, where did the space for the universe to come into existence come from? This universe - however big it is - must need some space (space as in room to move space, NOT space as in moon, star, sun space) to start its existence, otherwise what is it in???

Forget about Space. If you really want to bend your brain, realize that Space AND Time are limited to our Universe. Outside of our Universe the dimension that we know as "Time" may not exist at all.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Dec, 2009 02:45 pm
@rosborne979,
Time is a creation of man, and I agree that "space and time" are limited to our universe based on our sun and planet earth.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Dec, 2009 05:48 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I assume the universe's space, time, matter, radiation, energy, and designer all came into existence simultaneously.

What evidence do I have to support my assumption?

I expect that I have the same amount of evidence that exists to show my assumption is false.

None!

I like my assumption, because it implies that the universe is all that exists, and therefore nothing else exists.

What are the odds in favor of the universe not containing its designer? What are the odds in favor of the universe evolving by chance and not by design?

I have decided to assume that the age of the universe is less than 1.67 million years older than 14.4 billion years. That would imply that one 24-hour day of the six days of genesis is equal to 2.4 billion years. That in turn would imply that one hour of genesis is 100 million years.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 09:40 pm
@gold einstein,
I agree that the universe does not contain space; it IS space (among everything else). Is it likely that one can mathematically locate the CENTER of the universe?
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Dec, 2010 02:43 pm
@JLNobody,
JLNobody wrote:
Is it likely that one can mathematically locate the CENTER of the universe?

Generally, NO! I believe that at some past points in time, the size of the universe can be estimated and its center relative to its estimated extent can be estimated!
g day
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Dec, 2010 06:46 pm
@ican711nm,
The topology of the Universe (versus the visible "Hubble sphere") can't be known by our science.

If the entire Universe was created by a Big Bang, inflation is necessary and inflation means you can never find a centre, because inflation split spacetime into many, many components where each is casually dis-connected from all the others.

By very limited analogy, imagine the big bang like a grenade going off - where the explosion fragments the shell casing into only four equal pieces radiating outwards. Now each piece has a discrete velocity, but more importantly this object is being carried away by spacetime which during inlation is unfolding 50,000 times faster than lightspeed itself. This momentary kick start means that after inflation finishes none of the four pieces can ever see, or in any ways experience each other. Light can never travel through spacetime fast enough to catch up with the initial jet boost that was inflation.

Now scale that up to a big bang - and instead of 4 pieces imagine trillions of components broke off and seperated from each other. Each component is expanding in its own island reality. Lets say you live in component number 12,365,693: what is the shape of the universe and where was the original epicentre of the explosion?

No one could ever know under the physics of relativity.
0 Replies
 
north
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Dec, 2010 07:52 pm
@pyko,
pyko wrote:

ok, I've been thinking about this question for sometime now. (I hope I can explain it clearly as sometimes I have been known to have really twisted thinking)

Firstly, I think I can safely say that to create/move an object you will need some space to do it. eg, you need space to move from A to B, and you need the space in the kitchen to make a cake.

Ok, now I know that there has been a lot of discussion on whether the universe was created by God, or the Big Bang (or something of that sort).

But my question is, where did the space for the universe to come into existence come from? This universe - however big it is - must need some space (space as in room to move space, NOT space as in moon, star, sun space) to start its existence, otherwise what is it in??? But then I suppose this also becomes an even more twisted question when you ask, where did the space for that space come from (and so on and so forth)?

Also, if God created the universe etc. where did the space for God come from (he had to exist first before he created the space, but then how did the space come into existence if he didn't create it?) OR where did the space for the rocks/debris etc, come from for them to collide and make the universe???

I hope I have explained it well enough...


space , energy and matter came forth at the same moment

each cannot exist without the other
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Dec, 2010 08:23 pm
@JLNobody,
No. Nobody will ever figure out the size of space.
north
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Dec, 2010 08:37 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

No. Nobody will ever figure out the size of space.


actually you can

by figuring out the minimum space that an atom or deeper , into the quantum world of quarks , that is needed for these to exist and then multiply this by the amount that is in the Universe

the only problem is that we don't know the minimum space needed for either the quark or atom to exist
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Dec, 2010 08:42 pm
@north,
You're now talking Greek. I'm totally lost.
north
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Dec, 2010 08:53 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

You're now talking Greek. I'm totally lost.


sorry , but think about it

each constituent of anything needs a certain amount of space in order to exist or manifest

from the practible , house to the quark

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Dec, 2010 09:03 pm
@north,
Space being the exception.
north
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Dec, 2010 09:52 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Space being the exception.


why ?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Dec, 2010 11:19 pm
@north,
Because presumptions without proof is not evidence of anything.

It is or it isn't. I'm also an atheist; I don't believe in something that doesn't exist.
north
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Dec, 2010 11:25 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Because presumptions without proof is not evidence of anything.

It is or it isn't. I'm also an atheist; I don't believe in something that doesn't exist.


so are you saying that space does not exist ?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Dec, 2010 10:22 am
@north,
Simple minds arrive at dumb answers; show me where I said that?
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Dec, 2010 04:22 pm
Do you think space, time, energy, and matter came from nothing?
If you think that, then what do you think caused it all to come from nothing?
If you do not think that, then what do you think space, rime, energy, and matter came from?

It takes me much more faith to believe space, time, energy, and matter came from nothing than to believe they came from God who always existed!

To date, neither can be proven to a certainty!

Place your bets!

I'm betting space, time, energy, and matter came from God who always existed!

What is the price you pay of believing in either proposition, if you are wrong?

g day
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Dec, 2010 04:29 pm
@ican711nm,

In modern physics the big bang created everything we perceive - space, time, energy, mass - the laws of physics and physical consants. If one asks what was before the Big bang - the simplist answer is not our reality, not our phycis, not our concepts of spacetime, mass or energy. Under M theory branes are infinite and may ineract to create new ones (such as our universe) with its defining paramaters.

So can something come from nothing. There are a couple of options, two simple ones: 1) two or more membranes interacted to form a new one - our Universe 2) for our reality that was created - from nothing, a anti-universe was created to balance it - like 1 + -1 = 0, but we are dealing with something a lot more complicated than + 1 or -1 Smile
0 Replies
 
 

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