the universe and space....?

yeah mech;

i've been trying to do a simple linear contraction for three months or better.
ever since not getting enough exercise all winter long.
you have to calculate the energy loss due to lack of condition;
Then you have to calculate wave length changes due to "mirror" effects.
Then you have to calculate the caloric changes due to variations in the speed of time at the various points of the particles journey down the digestive tract.
Then you have to figure the drift due to the different actual layers of fatty tissue with differing ripple lengths.

it's not a pretty sight!

not to mention your earlier comment: "If one postulates a Divine Creation scenario and makes predictions accordingly then they frequently seem accurate."

really?

which parts seem accurate? the seven days, or the little guy behind the curtain who should be up on 'crimes against humanity' charges if we could only get our hands on it.

actually i guess u're right we can look at it scientifically, and say my, look how things are!
or say a god made everything, and wow, what a coincidence, it made it just the way things would have been anyway!

SOOOOOOOOO.... who here believes in UFO's ????? haha

hmmm UFO's.......

Uniformed Frontline Observers?

Universal Freedom Officers?

Uniquivocal Fraternal Obituarys?

er, Unintelligent First Observations?

duh, Ugly Fat ......no, no, no, no

c'mon help me out here ican!

u're the letter guy!

I believe in Unidentified Flying Objects, but not alien spacecraft, if that is what you are implying!

Hokie,
Einstein postulated the energy equivalence of matter around 1920 or so. Proven at Hiroshima Japan: 1945.
String theory has been around for twenty years or so at least.
(I term it an Extradimensional Universe) as opposed to an Expanding Universe, an Inflationary Universe, a Plasma Universe,an Intelligently Designed Universe,A Created Universe, a Rebounding Universe, A finite, Infinitely Expanding Universe.

clever mech;

carefully hidden clues 2 usaf..y's puzzle.

so the U is 4 Universe, but none of the others have an 'F' or an 'O' in them?

oh, where is ican when u need him

BoGoWo, re independent observer

Agreed, That is a mind experiment. I've been trying to point that out for a couple of years now.
In order to do it IMO we must try to "see" what an independent observer would see.
So now I am going to make you an independent observer. No Charge.
Hokie too.
Take two monkeys, a banana, and a skein of yarn. put them in your living room.
Wrap the banana up in the yarn. Take a free end of the yarn and go into the closet with it. Have your neighbor open the door of your house the next time she sees a Hopalong Cassidy rerun on the TV.
Now- From the closed soundproofed closet tell me--
Where are the monkeys? What path does the yarn take? What is the actual linear distance to the end of the yarn. How long is the yarn?

Yet we are willing to build an Ultimate Theory based on the our view of the bitter end of the yarn (observed light)!

Damn Frank, how'd I ever get on this side? You'll convert me yet! M.

Note, This is not nearly as much of a foolish exaggeration as it seems at first glance.

hey mech; i'm getting lonely in here......... and its dark;
and i don't know about where u r but Hoppalong Cassidy is not a frequent 'event' on my horizon;

and besides "foolish exaggeration" is my specialty! :wink:

Bogo, re accurate parts,

Jealousy, acquisitiveness, selfishness, spite, infidelity, prevarication, personal aggrandizement, mother love, loyalty, patriotism.

These are all human behaviors that one can predict will exist if you know the Creator. Obviously they all exist. Ergo the Creator exists. What more proof you want Just gloss over the rough spots.

Unfortunetly it often seems to work the same way is Cosmology
Ie- Rough Spots- Where did the Big Bang bang? Where does a Black Hole go? What force banged? Where are the other dimensions?
What was here before the Big Bang banged? Where was here? Hell, where is here

Damn, your right;
I just put my foot down, & there was nothing there!

actually i used 2 think the big bang was a porn movie!

somebody is soon going 2 use the name 4 a fast food item.

as u were saying......."if you know the Creator."
so u ben there done that... together; chums, eh.....maybe u could put in a word...... :wink:

Hey I starred in"The Big Bang" watch out for my next upcoming movies "The Milky way" and "Stick it up Uranus!" as well as "Orion's belt comes undone!" and "Help me! I'm a Hooker in outer space hung from nothing!"

I'm hung from nothing too, but i don't talk about it

Your funny!

Hey Mech

I loved that illustration.

But, for some, hope spring eternal.

In fact, for me it does.

frank make that:

hope 4 strings infernal (fibre optics); the string fairy!

mech always has something up his sleeve!

And it ain't always his arm!

Then what is it?

Bogowo,

Un-manned (you should pardon the expression) UFOs are most commonly found in the neighborhood of tornadoes. So naturally I recommend these most common UFOs be called MCUMUFOITNOTs.

Mech,

Please help me with this conundrum.

It is alleged in the link article you provided me that some of the redshift is due to gravity rather than the Dopler Effect.

Why then do we perceive a blueshift in the light from neighboring galaxies in our galactic group?

If the article is correct, the effect of the relative concentration of mass and intensity of the relatively local group's gravitational field, should more than counter with a greater redshift, the blueshift due to the speed of approach of this group to our telescopes.

Perhaps not gravity but space itself in addition to the Dopler effect causes some of the redshift. Perhaps the more space between us and distant galaxies the greater will be the redshift simply because of space itself plus speed of separation. Perhaps all of the redshift of distant galaxies is caused by the travel of photons in space.

THEORY

There exists a flawed intelligence of the universe (IOT), intrinsic to our observable universe (OOU) that influences the evolution of both IOT and OOU.

Is IOT <God>?
Define God

If <God> means the Greek, Roman or similar gods, then they might qualify as IOT since they were alleged to be flawed.

If <God> means the god of the bible, then they do not qualify as IOT, since that god or god trio is/was alleged to be flawless.

Be careful! If you decide that IOT is not <God>, you will flush Frank's whole scenario right down the proverbial toilet. On th otherhand if you decide IOT is <God>, then you will never hear the end of Frank's <I told you sos>. :wink:

I will report! You decide!