9/11 - The Presidential Cover-up Continues!

Yup.

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Sofia - I find touching your loyal defense of this administration. And this is not sarcasm. In truth, they don't deserve you.

About the binLadens - yes, they should have been detained and questioned, and yes, it would have been bad for Bush. Bush senior and the rest of the mob had been dealing with the binLadens for a long time. They were flown out by private jet. I doubt very much they would have been killed by crazy mobs. But then - look at the rest of the recent short history of the U.S. and the Saudis. Most of the murderers involved were Saudis, yet, that's never been questioned, or even gone near in any discussion by Bush. 28 pages blecked out by the administration, all relating to Saudi complicity (other names involved with them, too.) So what you have is a deliberate black-out of any Saudi connection at all. Turns out a lot of Americans learned basic math, and started adding things up. Just exactly what are you defending here?

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Quote:

"I was very interested, you know--there were 28 pages missing from the Sept 11 attack report from the US Congress--This might help them--I have got some pages here--these I do know are the material that went into those missing pages. On the top the document is marked secret and on the left side it is marked-199 I, which means national security, and WF which means Washington Field Office of the FBI--now how did I get this document?--this was not a helicopter drop; actually oddly enough, some FBI agents came to the BBC offices and they came to us and asked some questions about God knows what and as they were leaving they had dropped a file on the desk and then they called a little while later and said Oh my God--we accidentally left the file on your desk--you haven't read it, have you? and they said we will be back for it in 30 minutes--unless you need 45..."

--Greg Palast, speaking at a WBAI-sponsored event in New York, 8/22/03

democracynow.org

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mamaj, I still contend that the basic math level of Americans is too low to add two plus two to arrive at the necessary conclusions. I thought I was bad at math! c.i.

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Well, CI, I've got to admit math was never my strong point. If my Aunt Rose had not been my algebra teacher, I would have flunked it.

But I do have a little faith. Only tonight I saw that in your state it looks like some people have started thinking about what the recall means, and some figures are beginning to change. With 45 days to go, looks like Bustamante has pulled ahead, and the figures supporting the recall are dropping much closer to the figures not wanting the recall.

(Changing the subject for a second. PD, just now looked at another thread, and I AM legal. Would like the other stuff to be, too.)

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mamaj, I've always been against the recall, because it only wastes precious money at a time we need every dollar in the state coffers. It takes more than one person sitting in the governor's mansion in Sacramento to correct our financial mess. The blame must also be shared by the state legislature; they didn't have to approve all those spending in good times, and not save for a rainy day like responsible representatives of the people. they didn't have to approve all those spending bills. The only way to correct this shortfall is to increase taxes and/or cut expenses. The best solution lies somewhere in between those two options. Since the governor and the legislature are gutless, they have resorted to floating a 18 billion bond to cover the 38 billioin deficit. That's a worst solution, because all they are doing is shifting the problem into the future. Any yokel can do that! c.i.

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Jimmy Breslin's personal hell-tale of 9/11/01:

Quote:

I was a few hundred yards up on Liberty Street when the Two Tower of the World Trade Center blew. I put my nose inside my shirt and ran through smoke that turned day into night. In the smoke were computers, asbestos, pulverized glass, human bodies, lead. I got on another street and one tower blew up. Again, the air was black with a pulverized 110-story building.

I did not feel well for two months. I never said anything because I was too embarrassed. A couple of thousand had died. So many others were scorched and broken and maimed. I had no right to open my mouth, I thought. Besides, from the first day, the government's Environmental Protection Agency had announced that air was remarkably clean. Work on. Breathe on. You're fine.

They lied. They lied because the administration did not want people not going to work. They lied the first week and they lied the week after that and they have lied every day of the past two years to the people of this city.

Another Lie, One Among Many

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mamajuana, et al.--

I guess it seems like a defense--an alternative, non-nefarious theory for why the Bin Ladens were flown home. A doctor, when diagnosing an illness, starts with the most common possibility, and works from there. It may be a rare form of cancer--or it might be a cold. Getting to the truth takes thorough examination and patience.

My mind isn't made up on this at all. I just thought reasonable theories should be forwarded alongside the others.

The blacked-out pages have to come to light. I'm not sure what it will reveal--so, my mind is open to all possibilities, though I may now give varying degrees of credence to all.

I did appreciate your comment. Smile

However, it isn't so much a loyalty, as a practice to withhold judgement until I have all the necessary facts. I didn't subscribe to many wild, anti-Clinton theories, either. (Though, I did occasionally throw them out in a self-serving manner when I was frustrated. Cool

--{A personal admission--not a back-handed accusation. } :wink:

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Sofia, Your's is the intelligent way to proceed on the unknowns. Speculating is fine, but it has it's limits. c.i.

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A nice compliment, c.i. Thank you. Very Happy

I indulge in speculations, as well. It is fun, sometimes. :wink:

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Congressional investigators said on Monday that Vice President Dick Cheney had stymied their investigation into his energy task force by refusing to turn over key documents. The General Accounting Office, the investigative arm of Congress, said it was impossible to tell how much energy companies or industry groups may have influenced the task force's 2001 report because the administration withheld important records.

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dys, We don't need to dig into that 'old' stuff; how about the contracts given to Helliburton and Bechtel without open bids for the reconstruction of Iraq? Why doesn't anybody get upset about "these" deals? c.i.

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Old deals, new deals, it's all the same thing, CI. The stinky pile just gets higher and stinkier.

Question (serious question): Have Republican administrations of the past, say, 80 years been more corrupt than Democratic administrations? Overall? More or less skullduggery?

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Tartar, That's actually a tough question to answer. There are too many hidden agendas by all the presidents with the exception of Jimmy Carter. I couldn't begin to answer that question. c.i.

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I only go back (just barely) to Roosevelt. I know there were nasty little messes in the Truman admin because my father resigned in disgust on account of them. But I associate deep corruption -- serious conning of the people, I mean -- with Nixon, Reagan and both Bushmen. Do we just know more?

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Here's a link with some good info on corrupt presidents and other high level staff. http://www.washingtonian.com/people/brzezinski.html
I think Richard Nixon is the most corrupt of the bunch during my life time. Others are guilty of enriching themselves; don't know where ethics, crime against humanity, and legal sits on these issues. c.i.

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Lyndon is a total enigma to me...

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dys, I know what you mean; Lyndon was responsible for the Civil Rights Act of 1964, but most things he did as a president didn't quite fit that ideal. c.i.

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He was a vile abuser of long-eared doggies, and he screwed VietNam around for political purposes, costing so many more lives than we had to lose... But, he had to be broken about it to refuse the second term. It had to be a nightmarish time to hold office.

Also a champion of Civil Rights.

Guess Presidents actually have shades of grey like other humanoids.

I think Nixon was a little 'touched'; paranoid and zealously protecting his America from the evil commie long-hairs... But, I bet incredibly dedicated to what he percieved to be right for the country.

Didn't JFK order the assasination of Castro--and make it a point to screw everything in his range of vision--and buy the election--and talk about winning one for daddy... But, where would we been without his strong leadership during intergration and the wider Civil Rights issues? He had the balls for that job when many wouldn't have.

I tend to think most of these men gave this country their particular, personal strength, designed or modified to the time they served.

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Viet Nam was definitely a boon-doggle for Johnson, and he screwed up royal. His arm-twisting ways just couldn't last that long as president. c.i.

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9/11 - The Presidential Cover-up Continues!

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