If Jesus had known...

Arella Mae wrote:

So, why is it ok for you to tell me how delusional (etc) I am and I can't tell someone else I believe something they are doing is wrong? Why is it ok for you but not me? That's where the word HYPOCRITE just jumps out at me.[/color]

So many straw men and circular arguments that I don't know where to begin.

0 Replies

I made my point pretty clearly. If you can't own up to your own behavior that's fine.

I find no need to call you or anyone else any names, demean them, bash them, etc., because they are different for any reason. Obviously, you and a few others disagree with that and have a different viewpoint concerning it.

So, I agree to disagree and it's finished on my end.

0 Replies

Arella Mae wrote:

Quote:

I don't require empirical evidence. Some do. The one question I wish could be answered is why do some require that proof and others don't.

The ones who do live in reality.
The ones one who don't, live in a fantasy of their own making.

The ones who do, face life headon using reason to make choices.
The ones who don't, follow dogmas based whatever scripture they are drawn to.

The ones who do, ask questions and question the answers.
The ones who don't, live in fear of knowing any real answers, otherwise they would demand truth.

The ones who do, recognize that there is only truth and no such thing as a religious truth.
The ones who don't, think there can be greater truth and are willing to kill people over whether they are correct.

In the end, the ones who do, are comfortable in their existence or try to be as best they can.
The ones who don't, are forever discontent, though they shout to to the rooftops of their serenity, because they have disconnected themselves from the experience of being human.

You can see that by who bristles when beliefs are challenged, the fanatic knows in his heart what he believes is not real, but he tries to hang on, crying that it's not fair to make fun of something he holds dear.

The realist, when challenged, relaxes.

Joe(what were you saying?)Nation

0 Replies

Arella Mae wrote:

I made my point pretty clearly. If you can't own up to your own behavior that's fine.

I find no need to call you or anyone else any names, demean them, bash them, etc., because they are different for any reason. Obviously, you and a few others disagree with that and have a different viewpoint concerning it.

So, I agree to disagree and it's finished on my end.

You are arguing points against me that I never made. That is a straw man.

And as far as your "it's finished on my end"......I've heard that before, several times. I keep wishing it to be true, but it never is.

0 Replies

maporsche,

You sound almost as upset as Arella Mae appears. Is it in some way important to you that Arella Mae keeps quiet? Why so?

0 Replies

Quote:

The ones who do, face life headon using reason to make choices.

Quote:

The ones who do, recognize that there is only truth and no such thing as a religious truth.

Truth based on experience and subsequent reason. Very, very subjective is that "truth." Perhaps religious people are not so easily satisfied and their disatisfaction leads them into the seemingly bizarre dogma that is religion? Neither extremes are satisfactory in my mind. Nothing is satisfactory.

0 Replies

I don't I mentioned anyone being satisfied or any conditon being satisfactory, although both could be claimed by someone believing they were wrapped in the protective arms of a supernatural being.

Joe(very snug)Nation

0 Replies

Arella Mae wrote:

You prove my point so well maporsche. Let's see, if I were just dare to say that homosexuality is wrong, I am called homophobic, a bigot, and a whole lot of other words, merely because I express my beliefs? You just said that's my right!

[/color]

Of course it is your right to be a homophobic bigot or any other kind of bigot if you choose to do so. Noone has said that it isn't. You even have the right to call yourself a homophobic bigot as you did here during a brief period of lucidity.

Arella Mae wrote:

I was a homophobic bigot. I WAS a homophobic bigot. I am not one now.

[/color] http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1913982#1913982

0 Replies

Joe Nation

Correct; it was me who mentioned satisfaction and that's exactly my point. A materialistic, mechanistic and atheistic world view isn't all that satisfying for a lot of people. The subjective "truth" you espouse. I put that forward as a reason for the phenomena of religion, accepting that this extreme is no better IMO. It's not rocket science...

0 Replies

Hmmm. Wherever did you get the idea that it's a materialistic, mechanistic and atheistic world view ? How dull. Can't there be a middle?
There's still plenty of art and beauty and music to be had by the non-believer along with a lot less guilt.

Joe(Never be afraid to have too much fun)Nation

0 Replies

Indeed, there must be a middle; that's what I've been suggesting to you. It's called tolerance. Absolutism in any form is dangerous. To me, you come across as being just as absolutist and intolerant as any religious person.

Reason based on experience: do we all share the same experiences?

0 Replies

Sorry about that. You are suffering from a misapprehension and it's probably all my fault. I am the first one to stand up for diversity of ideas and I relish living here in the cultural mixmaster called New York, but, and it may be that some of the New Yorker brashness has finally rubbed off on me, I do not suffer fools for long. Magic, astrology, mythology, dancing with numbers or with ghosts in order to put one's life in order leaves me shaking my head and making sure I know where my wallet is.

Quote:

Reason based on experience: do we all share the same experiences?

Wouldn't that be great, wouldn't that be fine?

No, but we all live in the same existence and we owe each other our honest view of our experiences unshaded by illusion.

Joe(cuddly puppydog)Nation

0 Replies

mesquite wrote:

Arella Mae wrote:
You prove my point so well maporsche. Let's see, if I were just dare to say that homosexuality is wrong, I am called homophobic, a bigot, and a whole lot of other words, merely because I express my beliefs? You just said that's my right!
[/color]

Of course it is your right to be a homophobic bigot or any other kind of bigot if you choose to do so. Noone has said that it isn't. You even have the right to call yourself a homophobic bigot as you did here during a brief period of lucidity.

Arella Mae wrote:
I was a homophobic bigot. I WAS a homophobic bigot. I am not one now.
[/color] http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1913982#1913982

Ah yes, can always count on you to dig up anything you can to what? What's your point? Yeah, I had doubts for awhile. And, as long as I had those doubts, so many of you were so willing to help me! I mean, wow! Actually bent over backwards trying to help me. I had honest doubts. I asked all the questions I could. I read tons of stuff trying to come to some resolution. I was being what you'd call "open minded". As long as I was fitting into what some of you thought was the "way" to be, you were kind, polite, friendly and helpful and understanding. That only lasted as long as I was having doubts about what I originally believed.

I ended up with no matter whether homosexuality is a choice or someone is born that way, the Bible says it is wrong, oops! Silly me! To think those of you that were so helpful during my quest for truth and resolution to my doubts would be tolerant enough to try to understand, but where did you go? Don't answer. You don't need to.

You have gone right back to where you were before. Calling my beliefs delusional, mocking God, using profanity with God's name, etc. That is your choice in this life. I only wish you could understand that in your search for tolerance from the "religious" as you call us, your intolerance is growing, and growing, and growing and it ain't pretty.

(If the above applies to you then it does. If it doesn't then it doesn't. I guess only you would know that for sure.)

0 Replies

Arella Mae wrote:

Ah yes, can always count on you to dig up anything you can to what? What's your point?

[/color]

The point is nothing more than the fact that the incessant drone of "why is everone picking on me?" becomes tiresome to the point that it deserves an answer which I attempt to provide.

0 Replies

It has nothing to do with anyone picking on anyone Mesquite. It has to do with those advocating for tolerance all the while being intolerant themselves. That is the whole point. Plain and simple.

0 Replies

Quote:

No, but we all live in the same existence and we owe each other our honest view of our experiences unshaded by illusion.

I agree that we should each share our honest view of our experiences. However, if our life experiences are all different, how can we say that we all live in the "same existence?" To what extent can a life experience be communicated amongst people? How much sense do we really make to each other? If reality is forged out of the raw materials of experience then surely we all live in a different reality? The reality of the religious man is different to yours because of different experiences; the illusion is in thinking that we can measure another by our own standards.

0 Replies

It's not that complicated.

Quote:

The reality of the religious man is different to yours because of different experiences; the illusion is in thinking that we can measure another by our own standards.

Not at all. The religious person only thinks his reality is different and, by the way, usually proceeds to do considerable measuring of others by his own standards even when those standards defy rational thought.

If the Great Poobah of the Holy Muktishah decreed that cold salt water would burn your skin and that he knew this because the Even Greater Holy Himself had spoken to him, his followers might actually believe they were feeling burned when they came into contact with cold salt water. Medical personnel would find no evidence of such burns, but the belief would persist.

The belief is intact, but in error. Reality remains the same.

Acceptance of this human life, unadorned and unprotected by any supernatural being, is a hard thing for some people, but in the end it's what we have.

That is why we must be kind to one another (which was after all the only commandment handed down by Christ)

Joe(speaking the truth to some is like cold salt water)Nation

0 Replies

With the greatest of respect: how absolutist of you!!! Your view of reality is reality absolutely and so any other view must therefore be delusional. This is precisely why you seem no better than the religious fundies to me.

Reality is based on experience alone and subject to change with new experiences. However, this reality then, in a sort of feedback loop, influences subsequent experiences. We all have different experiences which accounts for different views, personalities and prejudices. Different realities.

0 Replies

"Reality" is all in the mind...

0 Replies

pswfps wrote:

Quote:
I agree that we should each share our honest view of our experiences. However, if our life experiences are all different, how can we say that we all live in the "same existence?" To what extent can a life experience be communicated amongst people? How much sense do we really make to each other? If reality is forged out of the raw materials of experience then surely we all live in a different reality? The reality of the religious man is different to yours because of different experiences; the illusion is in thinking that we can measure another by our own standards.

Excellently stated.

0 Replies

If Jesus had known...

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know