If Jesus had known...

I don't think Jesus knew. He would never have allowed such terrible things to happen.

Or perhaps Jesus already came and saved all the believers hundreds of years ago and we are trapped in the dreaded post-apocalyptic hell?

If there is sentience underlying all existence then it seems odd that deity would polarise it into "saved" and "unsaved" contingents. I say this because all existence is a singular whole (no "parts" exist independently of the whole) and thus entirely the responsibility of said deity.

Just an observation, but it seems so many have no concept of what God is. You cannot put God in a box. You cannot describe God with words. With God ALL things are possible. With God, He can even create a rock so heavy He can't lift it. How? The heck if I know! But I know He can. There is a mystery about God we just won't understand until we get to heaven and find out.

We cannot, with our human minds, completely comprehend Him. That is where faith comes in.

Save it for church tomorrow.

God is an a$$hole.

Arella, have you parked your wits permanently?

You seem intent on believing unquestioningly. Why?

It's unfortunate that you can sense there is this wordless perspective beyond normal discussion/debate/word filled belief, and yet when some of the religious talk of "faith" as that which fills the gap for full comprehension of God, this faith could be an amazingly, intuitive openness but instead it seems to be more accurately described as a fearful choice for the sake of choice.

I don't recall ever saying I believe unquestioningly. Of course I had questions! But, I found the answers in the Bible.

This statement seems to be one of unquestioning belief.

Can what? Lift it or create it? Because he can't do both.
But if he can't do both he's not almighty.
And no, darling, you don't know he can, you just believe he can


The odd thing about this is that this dilemma of GOD and the BIG ROCK was always presented to me to by my elders who gave a more complex answer than Arella Mae's jes knode dit. I guess faith has moved on.

Joe(Faith is a soap bubble awaiting the pinprick of truth.)Nation

Only if you completely discount the study I've done, the experiences I've had, etc. :wink:

You always make me chuckle Joe! Actually, according to the Bible, God can do both. With God ALL things are possible.

Maybe someday people will get over this thing about "I have to be right". You say I don't KNOW. I say I do KNOW. Why is it such a big deal that I say know instead of believe? No matter what, I cannot tell you that you do not know something because how the heck would I know if you know or not? It doesn't matter to me if you believe that I know it or if you believe that I believe it. It changes nothing.

Arealla (nothing could change my faith) Mae :wink:

Re: If Jesus had known...
Of course he would. To some extent he knew ahead of time he was going to be heading down a tortured road; but, it was something which needed to be done.


You see, this character called God (The Big Cheese in some circles and Hey You in others) had determined that people weren't paying Him a rightful amount of respect and homage, nor were they honoring the things He had asked them to honor. In essence, mankind and womankind were screwing up The Almighty's plan. What to do, my Lord, what to do? Lordy, Lordy, Lordy...what a dreadful spot to find a self in.

Well, one sunny afternoon after evening vespers (which were held early due to the bowling championships between Earth Angels and Heavenly Angels) God struck upon an idea...well, to be fair, Sarah and Esther along with Methuselah and Jonah also contributed...but George (as God often times called himself) figured that maybe sending forth a human being to speak His message would take care of things. Now, since man and woman are created in God's image (they told me this in Sunday school so I know it must be true) God grabbed a soul which was hanging out at the ice cream parlor over on St.Gabriel Way, and said "I got a job for you." Now all souls are part of the great vastness which is God (God as such is actually an amalgamation of souls made into one giant soul which is all seeing and all powerful and all everything else as well) so this big God, says to the little soul, that it will be plopped into a human shield and be given 30 some odd years to convey to people what God wants and what God is about. Then God indicated that it would be a rough, tough and ultimately deadly task...would this tender soul be willing to go for it?

Well, the tender soul (who went by the name of Hezekiah) nearly leapt at the opportunity. It turned out Hezekiah had made a judgement error in thinking that all the residents of Heaven wanted Brussel Sprout ice cream...big mistake...in Heaven nobody likes brussel sprouts. The thing is Hezekiah needed a change of venue and armed with his new fangled veggie maker, he flew down to Earth. After planting some vegetables he hunted around and found this rather sullen maiden named Mary. He got on his cell phone (yeah they were around then but only between Heaven and angels on Earth)...and called up God. After a little hesitation, God agreed and sent off one of his angels to let Mary know what was about to transpire.


So it turns out Jesus knew ahead of time. My belief is that we all know ahead of time. That is, we know, before we enter into a body, exactly what the life span is and the basic surroundings we are going into. Beyond that there are an infinite number of possibilities as to how things will turn out. Once born, our memory is wiped clean and from thereon in it's what we make of it. Jesus got a better deal on this though. One day when he was about 9 or 10 he was told what the deal was and it all came flooding back to him. He was naturally annoyed, since it meant his career as a figure skater would not be happening.



Again, I believe Jesus would have done exactly what he did even knowing the outcome.




(and about those veggies Hezekiah/Jesus planted...surely you've heard of The Jerusalem Artichoke, that's why he had to get a body in that neck of the woods...or desert.)

You make me chuckle too.
You got yourself some kind of god there, able to contradict the laws of his own universe, able to create goodness because he is all goodness, but goodness gracious, he had to have created evil too because as we all know evil exists in this world. (It even has a champion in the Christian world, Satan. Let's not get started on talking about whether or not Satan is a god too. That would be confusing.)

What isn't confusing is that this particular God of the Bible isn't worth much to his followers, at least while they are alive. All the good stuff comes after death, meanwhile, the suffering, the disease, the heartaches of life all visit upon God Almighty believers in equal amounts as the believers in Odin. Occasionally there will be a claim that God has visited a miracle upon someone, that's where he gets to contradict his own laws, but those miracles happen with the same frequency of winning the lottery.

Look, you're right. My opinion of your delusion should have no bearing on the depth of it in your mind. Pay no attention to reality.

Joe(It's more difficult than the path you have chosen)Nation

[Arella Mae:]Just an observation, but it seems so many have no concept of what God is. You cannot put God in a box. You cannot describe God with words. With God ALL things are possible. With God, He can even create a rock so heavy He can't lift it. How? The heck if I know! But I know He can. There is a mystery about God we just won't understand until we get to heaven and find out.

We cannot, with our human minds, completely comprehend Him. That is where faith comes in. [/QUOTE]

I hear such statements so often. It's a funny thing to hear. Saying this does not demonstrate your faith, only that when you come upon something about your "god" you do not understand you excuse it with "his thinking is beyond my understanding" which shows that you do not wish to find anything that will show that your god does not make sense, but would rather decide "I simply can't make my brain work any harder". You're excusing your laziness with a rediculess claim to absolute faith.

Skeptical is right about the laziness, I don't think it's easy to study yourself into delusionary behavior, but we know it's possible. If you are really good at you can get a job at the Justice Department.
See this article.

Joe(where are all those grace Christians I keep hearing about?)Nation

How then can we completely worship "Him?" Can we worship something beyond comprehension?

All people or just the Jews?


One man? No disrespect to George but this doesn't seem like a very practical way to disseminate a vital and divine message amongst humanity. We were pretty spread out around the globe even 2000 years ago.

Ok, I've had quite enough of the delusional comments. I find them totally unnecessary and completely beneath the intelligence I have seen displayed by many of you on these boards.

I give a flying flip what you think about me because of my beliefs. The honest truth is, all the while advocates for equality are out there wanting it and lobbying for it, you, with your attitudes and words, prove yourselves hypocritical by demeaning others because they don't happen to believe the way you do. Can't you see that?

Yeah, you want equality all right. You want everyone to be able to be equal and live their life as they deem fit, yeah, right. You mean as long as they don't believe in God or want to follow God's rules. You mean as long as they don't tell you that God says something is wrong. It's not me deciding something is wrong! God made the rules, not me and not you.

So, you can keep your delusional, non-reality, etc. comments. They just make you look the fool.

Are you serious?

Equality is not me or anyone agreeing with your beliefs. Equality is giving me the same right to make fun of your beliefs as you have to make fun of mine. You have that equality.

Your god is a delusion, and one seriously f-ed up individual. And your statements about this god, if uttered by anyone who didn't claim a religion, would be considered grounds for being committed.

Religionists get the free pass AM. They (YOU) are the one's trying to squelch equality.

You prove my point so well maporsche. Let's see, if I were just dare to say that homosexuality is wrong, I am called homophobic, a bigot, and a whole lot of other words, merely because I express my beliefs? You just said that's my right!

According to many on this forum, I am the one that should change my beliefs because I disagree with their view on homosexuality. Now, can you equate this with religious beliefs? Somewhat, yes.

I believe because I believe. Is it a choice? Yes and no. I took that leap of faith but something in me allowed that or whatever you would call it. I don't require empirical evidence. Some do. The one question I wish could be answered is why do some require that proof and others don't.

But the point is, merely because someone is different (for whatever reason) it gives NONE OF US the right to demean them. Saying "I believe in God's eyes that is wrong because the Bible says so" is a whole lot different than calling someone delusional. I do not run around calling people that are homosexual names. I treat them with respect. My believing that it's wrong is no different than you believing I am wrong in stating how I feel about it. But, obviously, according to you, it's ok?

So, why is it ok for you to tell me how delusional (etc) I am and I can't tell someone else I believe something they are doing is wrong? Why is it ok for you but not me? That's where the word HYPOCRITE just jumps out at me.