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NeeD Opinions!!... Lets sEe.. :)

 
 
Mrhistoryguy23
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Mar, 2007 02:46 pm
So basically that war was important but since people were so barbarous then there was no real reason to be calling it a war... right?

Why do you think this "king philips war" was so important?
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George
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Mar, 2007 03:45 pm
Mrhistoryguy23 wrote:
So basically that war was important but since people were so barbarous then there was no real reason to be calling it a war... right?

I was just pointing out that the title of the book came from a quotation of
William Hubbard. He, not I, objected to the use of the term "war."

Mrhistoryguy23 wrote:
Why do you think this "king philips war" was so important?

I think it was important because it marked the ending of a reasonably
harmonious relation between the English settlers of New England and the
native people. Most of the latter who opposed the settlers were wiped out
and the expansion of English settlement in area would continue
unchecked. The horrific brutality of the war - on both sides - would
forever color the view each side had of the other.
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Mrhistoryguy23
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Mar, 2007 04:01 pm
yo!!.., how do i get this topic deleted!>., i want to delete it now! please ! someone delete it or else i am going to die..., literally!!.., please , save me.., delete this now.., and delete ! please!!! thank hyou!!!!


ahhfaskjfhaslkdf h
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Chai
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Mar, 2007 04:03 pm
hey...

you're not Mr History Guy.

I can tell.
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Mrhistoryguy23
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Mar, 2007 04:36 pm
I NEED TO GET THIS DELETED BY TONIGHT!
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Mrhistoryguy23
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Mar, 2007 04:42 pm
Look CHAI!.., i dont even know you so dont get into this ok!.., please, my life depends on this! Sad
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Mrhistoryguy23
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Mar, 2007 05:24 pm
PLEASE! i need an administrator to please delete this topic that i posted asap! thank you
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Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Mar, 2007 06:09 pm
Why the urgency? Threads often go wildly astray here, and silliness is far better than the schoolyard epithets so beloved of some of our colleagues.

Policies and attitudes directed toward Native Americans by Europeans was consistent with their chauvinism that stretched back to the dawn of history. The Europeans weren't unique in the firm belief that they were a higher order of beings than others. That a tremendous technological gap existed between the aboriginal and Europeans, only confirmed them in their prejudices. Slavery was also an accepted institution throughout the world, and Europeans had no qualms about domination. The Europeans took, "by right of conquest", what they wanted and valued from the Indians. Mostly the Europeans did not pursue a consistent policy of extermination. They wanted to extend their own dominions, increase their personal and national wealth, and they wanted to convert the pagans to Christianity. Persuasion wasn't all that successful, but the sword and lash enriched Spain.

The English colonies of North America were just as religiously self-righteous and greedy for land and wealth. As the English colonies became stronger and pushed in-land, conflict was almost certain. The Indians had three choices of how to deal with the invaders: they could mover further West, but that was only a temporary solution, they could adopt European ways and hope for assimilation as the Civilized Tribes did to their ultimate sorrow, or they could fight to the death, and many did. As conflict increased, so did prejudices on both sides. King Philip's War, the French and Indian War, the Revolution and settlement of the Ohio were all opening skirmishes in a conflict between the two cultures that lasted until near the end of the 19th century.

Even after the last organized Apaches were removed to Florida, the attitudes and prejudices didn't change much. Chauvinistic views about people of color were, if anything intensified by the American Civil War. Those who came from Northern Europe were the majority, they had the "power", and their prejudices were reflected in local, State, and Federal policies. Laws circumscribing the participation of other ethnicities were common, and unfortunately largely unchallenged until after the middle of the late 20th century. Hitler's racial policies demonstrated to the world's horror where extreme racial prejudice and chauvinism lead. America and Americans remained complacent, but the similarity of their prejudices to the evil Nazi regime was profoundly disturbing to many. During the Korean Conflict, President Truman integrated the U.S. military over the objections of a big part of our citizens. With JFK, a whole generation of young idealistic Americans set out to build a more perfect world based on American values. The Civil Rights Movement picked up steam as brutal racists showed up on television acting like the bullies they were.

Jim Crow Laws came off of the books, and policies to "level the playing field" were adopted. While the most immediate beneficiaries of the Civil Rights Movement were Black Americans, attitudes regarding women and Native Americans also began undergoing major changes. Chauvinism and prejudice is not defeated, nor is it likely to be totally expunged from human-beings in the next 500 years. It's easy to change laws, but almost impossible to alter the heart.
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Chai
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Mar, 2007 06:34 pm
Mr. History Guy, how can you deny knowing me?

That night we polka'd until dawn, sigh, it was magical.

I mean, you told me you LIKED me, right on the first page of this thread.





I feel so used.
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Mrhistoryguy23
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Mar, 2007 07:03 pm
Chai.., what are you talking about.., i don't even know you.. you're wierd
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Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Mar, 2007 08:44 pm
Chill Histotryguy, Chai is no more weird than most of us here. She's just teasing you. Every so often, when the moon is in the house of darkness and the sun is shining just right on the amber waves lapping the Pacific shores, the whole bunch have a tendency to wig-out.

When it happens, just go along or tune out for awhile until soberness returns. The folks here generally won't tease you if they don't like you, so there you are.
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dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Mar, 2007 08:52 pm
Not homework huh?

All assignments must be original thought!

plagerism is so easy to track these days
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Chai
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Mar, 2007 11:20 am
Mrhistoryguy23 wrote:
Bella, im not in school anymore. I am a musician by the way... But I was just trying to help someone out cuz he was asking me these questions and I don't have a clue..., im so lost...

Sorry for bothering you...

Chai, i don't know.., but I really like you Smile



Mr. History Guy.....are these, or are these no your words?

Were you in a fugue or something when you wrote this?
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Chai
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Mar, 2007 11:23 am
Mrhistoryguy23 wrote:
O man , pregnancy sucks..., but don't worry bella, that'll be over soon!.., i love you too...,

Chai, we should go dancing sometime..., do you like salsa?
Tony



I have been officially stood up.

harumph.....
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Region Philbis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Mar, 2007 06:50 pm
are you saying that mr. history is history?
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Mar, 2007 07:22 pm
Brandon9000 wrote:
In the mid-17th century, the European colonists in America were weak and needed the Native Americans, and so courted them as they would any foreign power that could do them some good. In the 19th century, they were strong, self-sufficient, and not threatended by colonization efforts by European powers, so they didn't need help from the Native Americans, and treated them considerably less well.


This is a naive statement, which is not supported by the historical record. In 1640, Parliament and the King went to war with one another, and the two colonies of the North American mainland--the Massachusetts Bay Company (a private corporate effort of the Puritans) and Virginia--were left to their own devices to defend themselves. The Amerindians were quick to take notice, and both colonies were obliged to buy powder, shot and firearms from the Dutch in the West Indies to defend their settlements.

But the warfare had already begun before the English Civil Wars. The aboriginals in Virginia attacked the Jamestown colonists from the very beginning, and in the 1622 attack on Martin's Hundred (in Virginia) came very close to successfully wiping out the English colonists. The Pequot War in 1637 was a concerted effort at extermination of the Pequot by the English, having enlisted the Narragansett as their allies.

American history has been dominated for a century and a half by a "New England-centric" view point, and this poor starving settlers, saved by the peaceful and generous Indians is just one example of the sort of bullshit which it produces.

Probably the most important influence of the relations of the United States with Amerindians has its origins with the French in Canada. Champlain established the city of Québec in 1608, and in that same year, he joined a band of Algonquians in a prolonged march into what is now upstate New York. There they met and fought a band of Iroquois, killing two tribal leaders. The Iroquois never forgot, and they became implacable enemies of the French. Beginning about 1640, they attempted to exterminate all of the tribes of the Great Lakes basin in the attempt to deny the fur trade to the French and to engross for themselves. They brought furs to the Dutch at Albany (and later the English) to finance their constant warfare with the French. They twice invaded New France--Canada--and on the second occassion, remained there for more than two years in the attempt to exterminate the French.

The French, who actually got along pretty well with most Indians, responded with several measures, one of which was to turn their Indians allies on the English colonists--especially the Mic-Macs of what is now New Brunswick and Maine. Border warfare raged for a century and half, and only ended with the final defeat of France in Canada in 1760. Thanks to the French, who instigated and supported attacks from Massachusetts to the Carolinas, many of the colonists had already adopted the attitude that the only good Indian was a dead Indian. But the most crucial circumstance was that of William Johnson. William Johnson was the agent of the English Crown to the Indians in New York--to the Iroquois Confederation. He has supported them in their wars with the French, and he very effectively enlisted them as allies in the last Anglo-French war in North America, which we know of as the French and Indian War.

When the American Revolution began, Johnson remained loyal to the Crown, and he made allies of the Iroquois once again (they were now known to Americans largely as Mohawks), and helped to turn them agains the American frontier settlements. When the English stumbled through their inept first operation, which foresaw Clinton marching north from New York to meet Burgoyne at Albany (he failed to do so), Burgoyne marched south from Canada with many western Indian tribesmen--ironically, he had no Mohawks, no tribesmen from the Iroquois Confederation with him.

But in that same campaign, Tories (loyalists to the English Crown) fought American militiamen. The Tories were supported by the Iroquois Confederation, and the Americans brought some Oneidas to the party. Initially defeated, the Americans turned on the Tories and Indians when the latter left the battle to scalp and loot the wounded and the dead. It was a bloody and bitterly fought battle, and although a victory for St. Leger and the Tories, the counterattack by the Americans after the battle demoralized the Iroquois. The Oneida were also members of the Confederation, but had fought at the side of the Americans.

What was crucially important, however, was Washington's reaction. The American losses had been devastated--in many of the wilderness settlements of the Mohawk River valley, the entire adult male population had been wiped out. Washington sent General Sullivan to drive the Mohawk (i.e., the Iroquois Confederation) from New York, two years after the battle of Oriskany. Sullivan only fought a single battle, but the Tories and Indians were routed, and Sullivan and Clinton went on to destroy more than 40 Iroquois villages, and in the following winter of 1779-80, the Mohawks starved to death, froze to death, or were obliged to flee to Canada, where they survive to this day.

Others can think what they will, i believe that the relations between the American rebels and William Johnson's Iroquois created the attitude of Americans toward Indians, or cemented the attitudes already formed in the four French and Indian wars fought in the 17th and 18th centuries. Indians were specifically excluded as citizens in the constitution, they were treated as foreign nations, and our first President had contempt for them, and had fought them in the French and Indian War, and had ordered their extermination in the Revolution.
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