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"My heart says something else".

 
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Feb, 2007 12:30 pm
sozobe wrote:
(In fact, according to something Dagmaraka found, she, ehBeth, patiodog, Chai, Caribou and I [a few more people too I think] all have a form of autism.)


Another factor in the increase of autism diagnoses is the expansion of what defines autism. We now refer to autism as any one of a number of conditions that fall under the umbrella of autism spectrum disorders whereas historical diagnosis was limited to a more severe form of social withdrawal.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Feb, 2007 12:33 pm
Right, that's part of what I was getting at.

Group one: always would have been identified as having something seriously wrong, just that the "something wrong" has only recently been identified as autism.

Group two: functional enough that they probably wouldn't have historically been diagnosed with anything in particular medically, just "odd" (if that), but now are seen as being within the autism spectrum.
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patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Feb, 2007 12:44 pm
Thinking about mandating vaccination in boys as well as girls...

There may be an issue there vis a vis risk of adverse reactions to the vaccines. In vaccinating a girl, it's easy to justify the risk because of the (presumably) much greater risk of developing cervical cancer. A boy cannot go on to develop cervical cancer, so justification of the risk has to be made on epidemiological grounds rather than on the grounds of what is best for the individual patient.

In modern Western medicine, the usual bias is to treat the patient, not the population. This is very apparent in the widespread use and abuse of antibiotics for conditions that may not warrant them: the doctor argues it's best for the patient (which is debatable in many cases), the public health official knows that it's not best for the population.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Feb, 2007 01:03 pm
JPB wrote:
Another factor in the increase of autism diagnoses is the expansion of what defines autism. We now refer to autism as any one of a number of conditions that fall under the umbrella of autism spectrum disorders whereas historical diagnosis was limited to a more severe form of social withdrawal.


We (= in Europe) still refer to autism as it defined in ICD 10:

F84.0 Childhood Autism
A pervasive developmental disorder defined by the presence of abnormal and/or impaired development that is manifest before the age of 3 years, and by the characteristic type of abnormal functioning in all three areas of social interaction, communication, and restricted, repetitive behaviour. The disorder occurs in boys three to four times more often than in girls.

F84.1 Atypical Autism
A pervasive developmental disorder that differs from autism in terms either of age of onset or of failure to fulfil all three sets of diagnostic criteria. Thus, abnormal and/or impaired development becomes manifest for the first time only after age 3 years; and/or there are insufficient demonstrable abnormalities in one or two of the three areas of psychopathology required for the diagnosis of autism (namely, reciprocal social interactions, communication, and restrictive, stereotyped, repetitive behaviour) in spite of characteristic abnormalities in the other area(s). Atypical autism arises most often in profoundly retarded individuals whose very low level of functioning provides little scope for exhibition of the specific deviant behaviours required for the diagnosis of autism; it also occurs in individuals with a severe specific developmental disorder of receptive language. Atypical autism thus constitutes a meaningfully separate condition from autism.
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aidan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Feb, 2007 01:22 pm
Patiodog-that makes sense. As the mother of a son, I guess I wouldn't want him vaccinated for something that wasn't a potential threat to him-again just to bypass something else being introduced into his system that didn't absolutely need to be there.

Having said that however, after I saw Edgar's post, I did talk to him (my son) yet again, about his responsibilities toward his sexual partners and what he could do to lessen the chances that he would be a carrier of this virus and what the consequences could be to his partner if he were to pass it to her.

I haven't read specific numbers in a while, but my impression is that the incidence of autism across the spectrum from mild (Aspergers) to severe has increased in the past decade and a half- autism programs in public school systems across the country are being filled up faster than they can create them.
Soz, I think the vaccination theory has been totally debunked, now the favored theory seems to be a genetic predisposition along with some kind of viral or environmental insult at a certain point during gestational development. It seems to be similar to schizophrenia in that it doesn't occur purely based on genetics and it doesn't occur purely based on exposure to some insult-there needs to be both present for it to occur (this is based on studies they've done on identical twins-one of whom develops the illness and one of whom doesn't).
And if you think about it, many of the symptoms of autism do resemble pediatric schizophrenia.

Miller-the tv thing was interesting too! It is primarily an issue with sensory integration and that would definitely play into that. But there's new stuff coming out all the time so who knows.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Feb, 2007 01:23 pm
Quote:
Foul shot? Autism and the MMR vaccine

Ronald Bailey
THE PERCENTAGE of American children who receive childhood vaccinations is dropping, and educated, well-off parents are leading the retreat. What has spooked them? Parents fear that the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine may trigger autism, a neurological disorder that typically appears before a child reaches the age of three.

The MMR/autism hypothesis took off in 1998 with the publication of a study of 12 autistic children by Canadian gastroenterologist AndrewWakefield. Wakefield's study found traces of the measles virus in the guts of children he tested. He concluded that the virus derived from the MMR vaccination, and suggested that it caused inflammation possibly related to the children's neuropsychiatric dysfunction. The connection was boosted by a report published in 2001 by autism activist Sallie Bernard, who argued that the mercury in the vaccine preservative thimerosal was "a novel form of mercury poisoning" responsible for autism.

But the preponderance of subsequent research has failed to find a connection between autism and the vaccine. A new study published by McGill University researchers in the July 2006 issue of the journal Pediatrics found that autism rates rose from 52 per 10,000 to 70 per 10,000 in Quebec a decade after the preservative thimerosal was removed from the vaccines. In 2005, a comprehensive review of 31 studies by the nonprofit authoritative medical collaboration, the Cochrane Library, found "no credible evidence behind claims of harm from the MMR vaccination."A 2004 National Academy of Sciences report produced similar results.

This and other research suggests that parents are confusing correlation with causation. The symptoms of autism just happen to emerge at the about the same time as recommended vaccinations are given. It's a coincidence, not a cause.

The real danger may not be the MMR vaccine, but fear of using it. Public health experts worry that many parents, having never seen a child afflicted with whooping cough or polio, are putting their kids at risk. The threat posed by the vaccine is likely illusory; that of infectious disease is surely not.

COPYRIGHT 2006 Reason Foundation
COPYRIGHT 2006 Gale Group

source: Reason, Oct, 2006 (via findarticles.com
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patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Feb, 2007 01:30 pm
It's common enough in agriculture to see a vaccination program instituted, work, and then be withdrawn because there doesn't appear to be any more disease -- and then (of course) there is an outbreak of the disease because you're not vaccinating for it any more.

I don't think most people really appreciate just how profound an effect vaccines have on our well-being -- as the article says, who's seen a case of polio recently?
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Feb, 2007 01:32 pm
This is one of my bugbears. I know people who refuse to get their kids vaccinated, pisses me off big time.
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patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Feb, 2007 01:35 pm
Well, they still benefit from all the folks who do get vaccinated (herd immunity), so on an individual level there's really no reason to get the vaccines. Sort of like there's no reason for any particular individual (excepting the Bill Gateseses of the world) to pay their taxes...
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Feb, 2007 01:36 pm
I seem to remember reading that polio is possibly resurging, with some populations not getting vacinations. (The Amish come to mind, but I'm not sure about that.)
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Feb, 2007 01:40 pm
Right, there are areas where it's actually becoming an issue again because of a concentration of anti-vaccination idiots. There was one in the Pacific Northwest somewhere I think, can look it up, don't remember details right now.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Feb, 2007 02:16 pm
sozobe wrote:
Right, there are areas where it's actually becoming an issue again because of a concentration of anti-vaccination idiots. There was one in the Pacific Northwest somewhere I think, can look it up, don't remember details right now.


I don't understand how this happens in the normal society groups in the US. Schools require children to be vaccinated in order to prevent this from happening. So unless there are a good amount of home schooled kids in one area, it would be difficult for this to occur. That is understandable in the Amish community - I wonder if it is a similar group in the Northwest or perhaps it is a community where home schooling is the vogue.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Feb, 2007 02:20 pm
Almost all (I think maybe ALL, I'd have to research) vaccination mandates have some sort of an opt-out clause. So they're not really mandates, which is stupid.

It's like, "You MUST vaccinate your child to start school. Unless you don't want to, of course."

I'm going to go see what I can find on that, I do think there was a homeschooling element, my memory is fuzzy.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Feb, 2007 02:23 pm
OK, here's a sample exemption, from Texas:

Quote:
The state of Texas in law grants and acknowledges the right of parents to exempt their children from vaccination requirements for day care, school, and college for reasons of conscience including a religious belief or for medical reasons. In 2003, the Texas legislature passed changes to the statutes expanding the reasons a parent can claim an exemption but the Health Department has questionably also increased the bureaucratic red tape necessary for claiming the exemption. There are specific procedures for requesting an official state form and submitting it to the school or for completing a medical exemption that all take some time so please don't wait until the last minute to get your papers in order.


http://www.vaccineinfo.net/exemptions/index.shtml

It's my understanding that it's basically you just have to say you don't want it for your child and then jump through appropriate hoops. ("Reasons of conscience" is broad.)

Now I'll go see what I can find re: the outbreaks...
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Feb, 2007 02:36 pm
Google search wasn't working (too much about "autism epidemic"), found an old thread where I complained about this and reference to Vashon Island (D'Art, haven't followed up on that yet) and an article with url from Thomas:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/07/nyregion/07COUG.html?ex=1172725200&en=9371cffa80766803&ei=5070

Quote:
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Feb, 2007 02:40 pm
And here's Vashon Island:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/798513/posts

(NYT article, hosted on freerepublic.)
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Feb, 2007 02:48 pm
sozobe wrote:
Almost all (I think maybe ALL, I'd have to research) vaccination mandates have some sort of an opt-out clause. So they're not really mandates, which is stupid.

It's like, "You MUST vaccinate your child to start school. Unless you don't want to, of course."

I'm going to go see what I can find on that, I do think there was a homeschooling element, my memory is fuzzy.


Perhaps also there is something in regard to each state rather than something national.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Feb, 2007 02:55 pm
Yes, it seems to vary by state:

Quote:
Despite the wide-spread imposition of school vaccination requirements, many states provide exemptions for medical, religious, and, to a lesser extent, philosophical reasons. These provisions vary by state, with medical exemptions for children who may suffer adverse effects from the vaccine being the most common. For example, in Colorado and most other states, an exemption from the vaccination requirements may be obtained by submitting to the school a certification from a licensed physician that "the physical condition of the student is such that one or more specified immunizations would endanger his or her life or health or is medically contradicted due to other medical conditions." 13 Almost all states also grant religious exemptions for persons who oppose immunizations for religious reasons. 14 The statutes allowing religious exemptions vary, with some requiring only a statement of dissent from the student, parent, or guardian, and others requiring a more specific statement regarding the child's membership in a religious denomination that opposes immunizations. 15 Exemptions based on philosophical or moral convictions in opposition to immunization are less common, but are provided by more than a dozen states, including Arizona, California, Idaho, Louisiana, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Vermont, Washington, and Wisconsin. 16 States may specify that such religious or philosophical beliefs be "sincere" or "conscientiously held." 17


www.fas.org/sgp/crs/RS21414.pdf

I'm not sure how they verify the "for religious reasons" one. As in, if "non-vaxing" parents live in a state that provides exemptions for religious reasons but not philosophical ones, I'm not sure what's to stop them from saying it's for religious reasons even if they're atheists. And every state but West Virginia allows exemptions for religious reasons.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Feb, 2007 02:57 pm
Vaccination is only voluntary in Germany since ... ages.
The "German Standing Vaccination Committee" only issues a yearly immunization reference guide.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Feb, 2007 03:13 pm
Maybe a little scare of polio coming back may cause these parents that don't want to immunize enough of a scare to decide to immunize.

I know what you mean sozobe - it also makes me angry that these parents can not vaccinate simply because they rather not "chance their child" and take advantage of those that do to protect their child.
0 Replies
 
 

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