Antidepressants

Stuh, I don't entirely disagree....

You seem to be ignoring the difference between what is normal (functional?) and what is not. The death of a parent probably should bring you to your knees. Running out of peanut butter should probably not.

Too much is made of what is natural and normal. For example, giving birth in a sterile hospital with drugs and cesearians isn't natural. Dying in childbirth is.

I don't believe that running out of peanut butter is a cause for depression to anybody. But just because they flip out when running out of peanut butter doesn't mean it was the peanut butter that flipped them out. If just means they are unstable for other reasons. Like feeling that they made the wrong choices in life or something. Just because the world as a whole may be functional most of the time does not mean it is normal to be functional under all possible circumstances...maybe all those functional people would, too, be reduced to being nonfuctional if put into the shoes of this a hypothetically chronically depressed and nonfunctional person.

It seems to me there is situational depression (your whole world falls apart and it is tough to even begin to move on) and depression from chemical imbalance, metabolic pathways not working as they do in most humans, probably with genetic explanation.


I think your world falling apart can affect your biochem pathways as well, thus bringing confusion between the two.

Yes (agreeing with Osso).

I was depressed when I became deaf. That was situational -- I had a specific reason to be depressed. I talked it out, got through it, no drugs.

My parents are both clinically depressed. Their ability to function was severely impacted. They both (independently, and different drugs I think) went on medication and their lives both improved immensely. My mom, who'd had serious problems (won't go into them in detail) went back to school, got the degree she'd never gotten, got a better job, etc.

Function, not feelings.

I disagree with the "walk into a doctors office and they give you a pill" scenario. I agree 100% with the "you have tried or been through some sort of therapy and we feel it's best you try antidepressants" scenario.

Too many MD's are giving their patients drugs when they simply have the blues. There is a difference between being blue and being depressed. I know several people who's primary doctor put them on ad's and they've never a day in their life seen someone specialized in mental issues. Being blue is being sad. Being depressed is almost like no feeling. At least it was for me. Numbness. Inability to process every day situations/emotions. Inattentivness to life in general. You literally stop caring but can't understand why.

Would you allow a foot doctor to give you heart medication? No. So why allow someone geared toward your physical body give you something for your brain?

Antidepressants can be a wonderful tool. A lot of the time, they aren't the answer but for many people the answer can't be found without them. For others, it's a chemical imbalance that won't ever fix itself. Some people just can't function without them. There is no shame in it. My dad can't function without his diabetes pills. No shame in that. I can't function without my thyroid pills. No shame in that.

Hmm. I don't personally know any of these people who cannot function without it. All the people I've known who take ADs were able to function fine before, but just weren't happy with themselves before. For instance, one girl described to me that beforehand she would always crave approval and was very passionate about things and afterwards she is happier and doesn't care about that. Now I think, I am a passionate person too, and if I lost that I just wouldn't be myself anymore because it defines me.

Sozobe, I feel for you. I went deaf once for a while and it scared the hell out of me. Thankfully my hearing came back a few days later. Another time my back became basically paralyzed for a week. While these temporary experiences do not compare, they were shockingly depressing.

Stuh--

In fifty years--even in five years--therapeutic drugs will become much more refined, much more tailored to individual conditions. Meanwhile, they may be a little clumsy.

Right now chemotherapy lacks a certain finesse--but few people turn down chemo because of the progress that will be made in five years or fifty years.

Mr. Noddy's family includes several bi-polar patients, one of whom loudly refuses to take any meds because she likes the "high" part of the bi-polar cycle. She's now, unemployed (again); divorced (again); deeply in debt (again) and hospitalized (again).

You pays your money and you takes your choice. Unfortunately, sometimes other people also suffer when a patient refuses medication. I'm particularly sorry for her teen-aged son who has developed some serious mental problems of his own under the stress of living with a "natural" mother.

The mind is a physical place.

The mind certainly abuts on other peoples' physical places.

Passion.

Hmmmmm.

My experience was completely different from your friends, stuh.

The only way I can describe my depression is that it was like walking around for years and years watching all my precious things slip through my fingers like sand.

I knew they were slipping and I'd stop and stare at them...

..... my friendships....
....... my love of books and music and art....
........ my ambiton and sense of responsiblility...
.......... my imagination and creativity....

... and it just seemed like a huge, insurmountable hassle to pick them up. All of those things gave me pleasure, or passion, but they prevented me from doing what I wanted to do -- nothing. Once I unburdened myself of every communication and commitment I was free to do nothing and that made me happy.

One thing about this kind of depression - the person who suffers from it is the last to recognize it for what it is.

I was really, really lucky that there were enough people I hadn't yet managed to drive away and they helped me help myself and I managed to find a broom and sweep up some of my self-sand.

Anyone who believes antidepressants are "happy pills" has no business discussing them.

Go talk to a doctor about your own condition (preferably someone who really knows the various antidepressants and the neurotransmitter(s) that each drug acts upon).




And don't take any antibiotics to eliminate an infection, and don't take anything for indigestion, and don't take anything for....

But, dialogue births understanding.

Let him ask.

I agree with the others who've stated that these meds are needed in severe cases. Some people simply can't function without them.
My uncles family has a history of severe depression and I've seen fist hand recently how bad it can be. My uncle, who is a semi-retired builder (very strong physically and emotionally), recently had a spell of depression bad enough to where it cripped him physically. He's getting much better now with meds, but I never imagined depression could actaully be that bad.
On the same note, I agree that way too many people are diagnosed with depression when they simply got the blues.
I've had the blues more times in my life than I care to remember, but so far, I can function and I can only hope it stays that way.
I absolutely hate the thought of having to take meds.

Define "the blues."

Clinical depression is very well defined.



Every episode of clinical depression increases the likelyhood of it happening again, especially if untreated.

stuh

Haven't read all posts in detail, so sorry if this has been said before.

The feeling that you should just "suck it up" and that it's weak to feel a certain way...Have you explored where that comes from?

I do believe that there are things in life that one should say to themselves "Just suck it up and deal with it" but not clinical depression. It's not just in your head, it is real, and it's not weak to get help.

Actually, it takes a lot of courage to seek help.

You don't just have to take it as if it's fate and this is your life's lot.

DrewDad, I guess the only way I can define it is, those times in my life where things are not going right. If it could go wrong, it does. I have had points in my life where I've felt helpless in certain situations and, in turn, I get depressed (or what I like to call "the blues").
There are things that I have learned over the years that I can do to get myself out of it.

For example: when I get depressed (the blues) I tend to get much less active, gain weight and don't like to go out much.

I know that there are things I can do to pull myself out and it works for me.

What I do is keep myself busy at all times. Pamper myself by doing something different with my hair, nails, etc...
I set new goals for myself. Find a new job if I'm not happy with the one I'm in. Dump the assholes I was stupid enough to live with for 6 year
Surprisingly, exercise has been the best therapy for me throughout the years. I don't exercise, I stay depressed. I've read up on how good exercise is for the mind, as well as the body and it works for me.
I also try to eat right, which is suppose to be a good thing too.
Make sure you drink enough water every day. They say not enough water is a bad thing.

Anyway, that's what I call the blues. I can function (so far) and I hope it stays that way.

Being blue is being sad for a while because you lost your job. Depression is not even being able to look for or hold a new job.

Does that make any sense?


Being sad is normal. Being upset is normal. Being in a "funk" for a few weeks happens to everyone. We all get down and thing "can this get ay worse???"

Being unable to carry out daily functions, being unwilling to get out of bed, being uncaring about appearance or health and not caring if it gets better or worse (but not understanding why you don't care) for longer than a few weeks is something else all together.

As well, depression tends to become comfortable. We feel like we belong there and that there isn't any other way we should be. Like we deserve it. Or we "enjoy" it because well, it's been that way for so long it's how we have to learn to live.

People with the blues still think that things will get better. People with depression often don't care if they do or not. They've resigned themselves to a life of misery. Everyone tells you to "snap out of it" or "get over it" but you literally can't. You don't know how. You don't know where to even begin. It isn't like you can pin point "ok, THIS is what's making me sad". There isn't a reason. Sometimes, there aren't any real reasons (chemical imbalance).

Morbid thoughts, inappropriate affect, suicidal ideation....





And daily exercise is definitely good for mind and body:

Exercise for Depression Rivals Drugs, Therapy


The most effective treatment is a combination of talk therapy and drug therapy (and, presumably, exercise). Talk therapy and drug therapy work on different parts of the brain.

Chai, I have psychoanalyzed myself to no end and could explain the source of every personality trait in my bag if I needed to. But knowing where they come from doesn't change them one bit.

For some it does take courage, for others it probably doesn't. I think it depends on the perspective you have developed. For me it would take courage and sacrifice because I would first have to sacrifice the idea that I am in control of myself...and that's a dangerous and unresponsible thing, in my book. Then it would take courage to overcome the fears that I have stated already.

Some others seem already resigned to believe that they are not in control of their lives, that they are God's creations or that they are helpless to the conditions the world throws at them, and I don't think it would take so much courage for those people.

DrewDad, huh? I don't see that clinical depression is very well defined AT ALL. There are no blood tests or brain scans, the source is not understood, and diagnosis is made in a largely arbitrary fashion. Also I find it ironic that you consider talk therapy to be the solution when you don't think some of us have business discussing it. And as Bella Bea points out, a person having it might not understand that they have it to go to the doctor anyway.

Bella Dea, saying that people who have it don't care if they do or not does not make sense. If they didn't care then they wouldn't take medication or seek help to begin with.

You say sometimes there aren't any real reasons. I am not convinced of that but regardless...does that mean you think that, if there is a reason for it, then it's not clinical depression? Even if it has lasted years? You'll notice that a lot of people who take ADs had rough childhoods. That IS a reason.

You don't care. At least I didn't. It took a LOT of convincing on my friends part to make me see what I was doing to myself. I didn't care that I wasn't going to class. Or getting out of bed. Or showering. Or making any contact with friends. Or eating. I just simply didn't care and I really didn't care why I wasn't caring.

No, I didn't say that reasons can't cause depression. I am just saying that sometimes, your brain just doesn't work right. Like say my thryoid. One day, it just stopped working right and I now need meds to make it function properly. Not saying depressed people are some how defective but you get my point.

As well, many people who had rough childhoods DON'T take ads....and don't need them. I'd estimate that 50% or more of all the people who are on ads (for whatever reason) don't need to be on them and someone thought it would be a quick fix to a problem that would have resolved itself on it's own. Or with therapy.

If you are on ads because of an event (not a true chemical imbalance) a good therapist won't let you take ads without attending session (at least at first). Because pills without backing are just pills. They alter the brain but don't take care of the problem.